Before I buy 7th edition

[Gollum]

On 11/23/2018 at 10:57 AM, Videopete said:

So it took two things for me to make the jump. One was the fantastic Seth Skorkowski  9 part review, that goes very much into the weeds and depth for me to make that decision and the fact that I know that there is a Korean Call of Cthulhu edition I can get for my wife. 

And you did the good choice, in my humble opinion.

Call of Cthulhu 7th edition gives the most flexible rules I have ever seen. Its rules can appear more crunchy than before but it's not true, actually. Rules wasn't that simple in the previous editions, especially when dealing with combats (grappling rules were quite complicated, for instance). With the 7th edition, everything has been streamlined and use the same mecanism, no matter what you do : trying to punch your foe, to knock him down, to pin him on the ground, to push him through the window... It is simple, fast, and makes sense because the result will depend on your size and strength compared to his ones.

Likewise wound and healing rules are much more realistic than before and remain very easy.

Finally, if you want to be sure to understand the rules correctly, they are explained by Paul Fricker himself in several short videos. Here is the first one:

Have fun.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Gollum

[Gollum]

7 hours ago, drablak said:

@Videopete Thanks for the mention of Seth Skorkowski review! I checked it out and it is very informative (and entertaining)! I'm definitively making the jump as well, although it is less of a jump in my case, since I do not have any prior edition.

You will have a lot of fun. Welcome in Call of Cthulhu!

Also look at the videos mentioned just above, if you want to. They are very well made. I'm not an English native speaker and still did understand everything immediately. Paul Fricker is an amazing teacher.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Gollum

[Numtini]

The rules are far better and more completely written and organized. This has led to me discovering a lot of rules that despite playing from first edition, I'd never really noticed. We've had several instances in our games where someone objected to "7th edition crap" (and yes, that's a quote) only to have me pull out the 1st edition and show them the same rule that they'd never noticed. (And in some cases, I hadn't either until I read 7th.)

The big change I notice at the table is that combat is a bit more streamlined. In addition to your one action, you get a counter-reaction (dodge or fight back) to each attack against you. This is compared to old CoC where if you dodged that was the only thing you did that round (probably the single most ignored rule in 1-6 ed in my experience--it seems everyone let you dodge and let you dodge bullets). This generally means more damage gets done faster and combat ends quicker. The exception, and only thing that's crunchy imho, is automatic weapons fire. Frankly, it's a mess trying to be overly simulative. The old system was a mess trying to make it easy. Delta Green IMHO got it right.

I really don't see any real difference with the percentile characteristics positive or negative. Most of the rolls in 1-6 were x5 anyway. And most of us who've gamed can do 5x maths in our head. Luck spends (optional) are convenient for avoiding meaningless death to a mook, but do little to really change the overall outcome--ditto for pushing rolls. 

IMHO other than the automatic weapons, the other mistake was a lost opportunity IMHO to consolidate some skills. Again, DG did that well.

[Mankcam]

About the only thing I don’t think was necessary was to switch core stats to the percentile format, as it looks a little inconsistent with previous  edition stat blocks. Not a huge issue however, it’s much better than edition compatibility in many other game lines. 

I think defining the skill success levels was a big improvement over every other BRP game, having a Hard Success defined as such is a great thing. Would work well in RQ as well for breaking ongoing combat ties when trying to determine opposed combat rolls.

I recommend just writing standard skill values on the character sheet, otherwise the sheet can quickly become cluttered and look over-complex. It’s not hard to mentally calculate the values on the fly or with a mobile phone calculator.

I also would have preferred the skill list to be trimmed. I think Mythras is on the right track here with consolidated skills like Athletics and Perception etc, and this approach would have suited a contemporary version of CoC.

I like simple modifiers, and feel that the Bonus/Penalty Dice plays well at the table, just like in D&D 5E. However BRP is a more granular system and I think I would have preferred Minor and Major numerical modifiers like in OpenQuest or Mythras, I just think that suits BRP better. However it is no big deal for those new to BRP, but it does feel a bit pulpy for experienced BRP players, it should of been a variant included in the Pulp Cthulhu rules instead of the core rules.

The other rules additions for Re-rolls are great (Pushing and Luck). They don’t overbalance gameplay, and just provide rule structure for when a player wants another attempt (a common occurrence at any casual game table). It doesn’t lead to having powerful characters, instead I have found that it just extends the enjoyment.

Roleplaying how a character puts extra effort into attempting additional non-combat rolls often leads to really interesting situations in order to justify the second attempt allowed in the Push rule. The stakes are also increased as well, as failing a Pushed Roll is a big deal, it is akin to a Fumble, so that’s always fun to see how it plays out. 

Also the sense that a character’s Luck is running out can add to the tension in the same way as seeing their physical capacity decline when their Hit Points plunge down, or seeing their Sanity getting stretched.  So I feel that these rules often enhance gameplay experience by allowing some flexibility early on, only to add to a sense of desperation and heighten the drama later on.

I love my GW hardcover CoC 3E, but found all the subsequent editions to be a rehash until CoC 7E, and these are the only editions that I tend to show people. They both have artwork that tends to capture new players, and they feel like different editions.

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Edited December 1, 2018 by Mankcam

[Mankcam]

12 minutes ago, Mankcam said:

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Mankcam

[g33k]

On 11/20/2018 at 10:47 AM, klecser said:

... 7th Edition got even more intuitive.  Prior products are rife with rolls like:  "Make a DEX X5" or a "Dex X2" roll...  Now ... compare to "below, half or fifth" values to determine success ...

I find this exactly reversed, personally.  I can do x2 and x5 in my head without a glitch (or x3 or x4 for that matter); /2 usually also, but /5 (and /3 and /4) not as swiftly (yes, I know /4 is just /2/2, that's how I math it if I gotta; but it's slower).

Dividing is a distinct slow-down at the gaming-table.  And I'm probably the most adept at doing such math in my head, it's worse for others (some of whom will whip out their cellphones for the calc-app).  I understand this is generally the case -- multiplication is easier & faster (particularly for mental math off the cuff) than division.

So I prefer STAT x DifficultyMultiplier  BY FAR  instead of STAT / DifficultyDivisor.

 

That said... horror's not really my jam, so I don't have much of a horse in this race (gotta admit to liking the looks of Pulp Cthulhu, though)!

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

I find this exactly reversed, personally.  I can do x2 and x5 in my head without a glitch (or x3 or x4 for that matter); /2 usually also, but /5 (and /3 and /4) not as swiftly (yes, I know /4 is just /2/2, that's how I math it if I gotta; but it's slower).

Dividing is a distinct slow-down at the gaming-table.  And I'm probably the most adept at doing such math in my head, it's worse for others (some of whom will whip out their cellphones for the calc-app).  I understand this is generally the case -- multiplication is easier & faster (particularly for mental math off the cuff) than division.

So I prefer STAT x DifficultyMultiplier  BY FAR  instead of STAT / DifficultyDivisor.

Yes, multiplications are easier and faster to do in mind than divisions, as well as additions are easier and faster than subtractions.

But, precisely, with Call of Cthulhu 7th edition, you do none at all (except adding dice when rolling for damage). Half and fifth values are calculated in advance and recorded on the character sheet. So, all what you have to do during game is comparing numbers (bonus and penalty dice even replace bonus and penalties that you had to add to the skill in the previous edditions). 

[klecser]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Yes, multiplications are easier and faster to do in mind than divisions, as well as additions are easier and faster than subtractions.

But, precisely, with Call of Cthulhu 7th edition, you do none at all (except adding dice when rolling for damage). Half and fifth values are calculated in advance and recorded on the character sheet. So, all what you have to do during game is comparing numbers (bonus and penalty dice even replace bonus and penalties that you had to add to the skill in the previous edditions). 

This. And we may be splitting hairs at this stage. At the end of the day, all editions can be played.

[Numtini]

18 hours ago, Mankcam said:

I also would have preferred the skill list to be trimmed. I think Mythras is on the right track here with consolidated skills like Athletics and Perception etc, and this approach would have suited a contemporary version of CoC.

All I can say is every character seems to take athletics in Trail or Delta Green and virtually no character takes any of the "athletic" skills in CoC. That right there indicates to me that the system is dissuading people from taking skills that players generally considered useful at a more reasonable cost.

I'd completely forgotten the bonus/penalty dice. This was something that really gave me pause when I read the rules, but after a session or two, it had become completely natural both to roll them and to call for them at the appropriate time. That, overall, is my feeling about 7th. Most things that seemed like significant changes at first read became invisible at the table.

[drablak]

On 12/1/2018 at 4:19 AM, Gollum said:

You will have a lot of fun. Welcome in Call of Cthulhu!

Also look at the videos mentioned just above, if you want to. They are very well made. I'm not an English native speaker and still did understand everything immediately. Paul Fricker is an amazing teacher.

Thank you @Gollum for the welcome and the link to the videos by Paul Fricker! I'm just now coming back from my local gaming store with the Keeper rulebook and screen and the investigator handbook. The videos from Paul Fricker and also those by Mike and Lynne on Mask are all very good. I'm looking forward to running CoC games.

[Gollum]

17 hours ago, drablak said:

Thank you @Gollum for the welcome and the link to the videos by Paul Fricker! I'm just now coming back from my local gaming store with the Keeper rulebook and screen and the investigator handbook. The videos from Paul Fricker and also those by Mike and Lynne on Mask are all very good. I'm looking forward to running CoC games.

You're welcome. I'll have to look at Mike and Lynne's videos too.

[Gollum]

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 3:32 PM, klecser said:

This. And we may be splitting hairs at this stage. At the end of the day, all editions can be played.

Yes, I totally do agree. Maths never have been a true problem with Call of Chtulhu's rules.

[Larry Lovecraft]

The production value alone made it worth it for me. Gorgeous books!

I won't rehash all the points others have already made, but for fans of great looking books that really "tie the shelf together", you can't go wrong.

[drablak]

1 hour ago, Lazmodeus said:

The production value alone made it worth it for me. Gorgeous books!

Totally agree. These and the new RuneQuest core book are gorgeous and really add to the immersion in their respective subject matter.

[Larry Lovecraft]

On 12/7/2018 at 12:48 PM, drablak said:

Totally agree. These and the new RuneQuest core book are gorgeous and really add to the immersion in their respective subject matter.

For real! I had no idea what RuneQuest was a week ago, and now I am a huge fan.  I played Rolemaster back in the day, and RQ:RP in Glorantha is a wonderful harkening to those days for me.  This current iteration at Chaosium is just what I needed...my 5E fatigue hit already and I need a non-Disney type fantasy game.