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Build vs Size: Firearm penalty/bonus

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I appreciate the concept of Build in CoC7 (combination of Size & Strength) as it makes sense for maneuvers: in general, a strong and heavy person will be harder to push than a similarly strong yet skinny person.

However, it makes no sense for the Build of a creature to affect how easily it is to shoot it.

According to the manual, if the target is Build -2 or smaller, one penalty die needs to be applied to the shooting skill. If the target is Build 4 or more, one bonus die is applied instead.

This is absolutely illogical. If two targets are of identical size, it shouldn't be easier to shoot one just because it has more Strength. As it is, a strong dwarf is easier to shoot than a weakling dwarf of the exact same size!

Typically this weird quirk of CoC7 has admittedly low impact on play, as Strength & Size tend to correlate & investigators generally can't be of Size -2 or 4+. However, the rule fails spectacularly when dealing with small creatures of supernatural strength (think Chucky from Child's Play), in which case said creature may have Build 0, even though it is quite small!

Hence, I decided to change the rules to the following:

"When shooting at a creature with a size of 32 or less, a penalty die is applied. When shooting at a creature with a size 143 or more, a bonus die is applied."

The modified rule should produce the same result as the official rule when Strength and Size are the same, but may give different results if Strength and Size are very different. This should make it more intuitive for your Keeper to add murdering dolls to your game.

You're welcome.

Edited by Merudo
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  • 3 months later...

I agree with your logic regarding the irrelevance of STR when being shot at... One rough'n'ready compromise would be to simply drop STR out of the equation and halve the Build scores in the existing rules (i.e. Build -1 = 1 penalty die, Build +2 = 1 bonus die on the assumption STR contributed 50% of the Build score).

Alternatively, make your own table based on SIZ alone (this table assumes target is not fleeing or actively evading shots).

SIZ                       Nominal           Penalty(-)
                          description         Bonus (+)
1 to 5           (baby - Chucky size)  -3
6 to 32         (child)                          -2
33 to 42      (teen-slim adult)         -1        
43 to 62      (average adult)            0
63 to 82      (large adult)                +1
83 to 102    (Andre the Giant)      +2
>102            (Big-ass MF)              +3

Or, more realistically, one could also drop the equivalent rule for Fast Moving Targets (MOV-based) and devise a new table based on SIZ and their apparent lateral MOV rate (i.e. if using a flat-trajectory missile like a firearms bullet, MOV has little bearing on a shooters' 'to hit' modifiers when the target is moving directly toward or away from the shooter, so use the table above). But if the target has significant lateral/left-right/strafe speed, this would have an effect on hit probability for a flat-trajectory shot (bullet, bolt), and also for a lobbed-shot** (arrow, molotov cocktail) even when the target is not moving laterally. To remain consistent with the existing rules, let's assume a full MOV 8 equivalent lateral** movement = 1 penalty die:

                                                       MOV<=8           MOV>8        MOV>=16
SIZ                       Nominal           Penalty(-)       Penalty(-)     Penalty(-)
                          description         Bonus (+)       Bonus (+)     Bonus (+)
                                                          Die                     Die                Die
1 to 5           (baby - Chucky size)  -3                       -4*                -5*
6 to 32         (child)                          -2                       -3                  -4*
33 to 42      (teen-slim adult)         -1                       -2                  -3 
43 to 62      (average adult)            0                        -1                  -2
63 to 82      (large adult)                +1                       0                   -1
83 to 102    (Andre the Giant)      +2                       +1                  0
>102            (Big-ass MF)              +3                       +2                 +1

* (Alternatively, can't be shot unless other bonus die apply)

Feel free to tweak SIZ bands or number of bonus/penalty die to your heart's content.

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5 hours ago, i3ullseye said:

1) More Strength can also mean more muscle mass, and more general bulk.

2) I prefer to not over complicate things that actually have minimal impact hehe.

Yep. We need to have some level of suspension of disbelief in a game about telling stories. 

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