Extended Contest: use or not to use?

[Corvantir]

I use extended contests and I like them.

I haven't used more than one extended contest per session and it was generally for the climactic scene. I like the way Extended Contests build up the tension, I find them easy to manage and fast flowing. I allow a player to change the ability used in the conflict when it makes sense and I can perfectly imagine situations in which changing an ability could even be required by the circumstances.

The bidding process reminds me of HQ1. I have tested the game once and didn't appreciate these bids. As far as I am concerned HQ1 confused me a lot at the time.

@Atgxtg As far as I know you can only use a single Augment in HQ2G, to the exception of Plot Augments.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Corvantir

[Steve]

On 11/29/2018 at 8:43 PM, soltakss said:

Extended Contests bog the game down, in my opinion. They don't have a good feel and they end up with a bidding process that I don't understand and don't like.

20 hours ago, soltakss said:

To be honest, I have never played HQ2, or HQG.

HQ2 confused me and HQG, which was meant to make it simpler, confused me even more.

Ok, this explains a lot. So all the time your dislike of Extended Contests has been referring to the much more complicated HQ1 ECs. Which is fair enough, though it does mean there's been a lot of cross-purposes confusion about this discussion (since most others have been talking about the HQ2/HQG ECs).

Edit - hmm reading it back, this could come over as snarky but I didn't intend it that way at all.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Steve

[soltakss]

On 11/30/2018 at 6:42 PM, Atgxtg said:

It could be kinda neat if there were certain cirumstances where the 3 agument limit was relaxed. Maybe add other characters together  as part of some sort of Leader skill? 

Oh, I don't limit augments in HeroQuest.

Originally, in HeroQuest 1, there was a problem where the PCs had too many skills. So, you took the Warrior Keyword and expanded it to 5 or 6 skills, then could augment with those skills. I don;t do that, instead they get a Warrior skill and can have Breakouts from that, they can use the Warrior skill to augment. So, someone with SlimeSlicer 5M (Cut through Chaos +1, God-Forged +1) and Warrior 1M (Sword +1, Broo Tactics =1, Bladesharp +1) could use his Warrior 4M when fighting Broos and using Bladesharp, giving him a +2 Augment, increasing SlimeSlicer to 7M. That's probably not how you do it in the rules, but that's how I play it.

Where other PCs augment, it gets a little bit more complex. The standard rule is "One thing, one augment", so each Skill is One Thing and each PC is One Thing. However, Magic can be used to augment slightly differently. So, a PC with Death 9M (Truesword +1) could cast it on SlimeSlicer, giving a +3 Augment. A Donandar Cultist with Drum 1M (Inspire Comrades +1) and Good Voice 2M (Battle Song +1, Rouse Anger +1) could use Drum 2M to augment Good Voice 4M, increasing to 6M, providing a +2 Augment to SlimeSlicer. All together, the 2 other PCs add a +5 Augment, increasing SlimeSlicer to 12M. 

[soltakss]

23 hours ago, Steve said:

Ok, this explains a lot. So all the time your dislike of Extended Contests has been referring to the much more complicated HQ1 ECs. Which is fair enough, though it does mean there's been a lot of cross-purposes confusion about this discussion (since most others have been talking about the HQ2/HQG ECs).

How do they work in HQ2, then?

I have looked through the original HQ2 book in the past, but couldn't see how Extended Contests had changed. HQ2 Glorantha just confused the hell out of me and I could not understand pretty much anything it said.

23 hours ago, Steve said:

Edit - hmm reading it back, this could come over as snarky but I didn't intend it that way at all.

Not at all - I can usually tell ...

 

[Corvantir]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

How do they work in HQ2, then?

I have looked through the original HQ2 book in the past, but couldn't see how Extended Contests had changed. HQ2 Glorantha just confused the hell out of me and I could not understand pretty much anything it said.

 

There are no Action Points in HQ2G. Instead, the winning side of an exchange scores between 1 to 5 Resolution Points (RP) according to his success level (Marginal Success = 1RP, Complete Success = 5 RP). The first to total 5 RP against his opponent wins the contest. This is a bit like Stress Points in FATE.

The difference between the RP scored against the loser and the RP scored against the winner (Rising Action Conflict) or the total number of RP scored against a contestant during the conflict (Climactic Conflict) determines the consequences.

These are the basic principles of course and there are more details especially when it comes to Extended Group Contests. I think this is enough to catch the main difference between HQ1 though.

Edited December 2, 2018 by Corvantir

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Oh, I don't limit augments in HeroQuest.

Originally, in HeroQuest 1, there was a problem where the PCs had too many skills. So, you took the Warrior Keyword and expanded it to 5 or 6 skills, then could augment with those skills. I don;t do that, instead they get a Warrior skill and can have Breakouts from that, they can use the Warrior skill to augment. So, someone with SlimeSlicer 5M (Cut through Chaos +1, God-Forged +1) and Warrior 1M (Sword +1, Broo Tactics =1, Bladesharp +1) could use his Warrior 4M when fighting Broos and using Bladesharp, giving him a +2 Augment, increasing SlimeSlicer to 7M. That's probably not how you do it in the rules, but that's how I play it.

Ooh, I think I like that better than the RAW. So anything under one keyword can help to augment that keyword, assuming that it can logically apply the the situation. So a Warrior who has "archery" as a breakout skill could use it to augment his ability to shoot a bow, but he couldn't do the same with his "guard duty"  breakout?  

 

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Ooh, I think I like that better than the RAW. So anything under one keyword can help to augment that keyword, assuming that it can logically apply the the situation. So a Warrior who has "archery" as a breakout skill could use it to augment his ability to shoot a bow, but he couldn't do the same with his "guard duty"  breakout?  

Pretty much, unless he shoots his bow while on guard duty, of course.

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, Corvantir said:

There are no Action Points in HQ2G. Instead, the winning side of an exchange scores between 1 to 5 Resolution Points (RP) according to his success level (Marginal Success = 1RP, Complete Success = 5 RP). The first to total 5 RP against his opponent wins the contest. This is a bit like Stress Points in FATE.

The difference between the RP scored against the loser and the RP scored against the winner (Rising Action Conflict) or the total number of RP scored against a contestant during the conflict (Climactic Conflict) determines the consequences.

These are the basic principles of course and there are more details especially when it comes to Extended Group Contests. I think this is enough to catch the main difference between HQ1 though.

Now, that makes a lot of sense. It isn't far off the way I do it anyway, so that makes me feel a lot better.

Thanks for the summary, that is very helpful.