Sureshot? Headshot!

[Darius West]

A quick post that may interest players and Narrators alike.  Consider this.  If you do an aimed blow (p197) you have to halve your skill and wait until SR12 and if you succeed in the roll, you hit the location you want.  Sureshot really helps.  Not only does Sureshot help out with range penalties and cover, but if you do an aimed blow, you are still at effectively 95% chance to hit.  Now it should be pointed out that your chance to special and critical will still be based on half your skill, according to the spell (p347), but your chance to hit in the location you want is pretty much guaranteed.  Now go and take someone's eye out so it will all end in tears.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Darius West

[PhilHibbs]

It's a rune spell, yeah, if you're prepared to forego any other shots then yes you get that benefit. Personally I might prefer to go for an automatic hit and then a second regular aimed shot at the end of the round. Sureshot will become less and less useful as skills approach 95% anyway (and most characters will start out pretty close to that, if they are in a cult that gives Sureshot), other than for this very use case. Maybe if your bow breaks and you need to chuck something, and have no throw skill...

I would be tempted to make Sureshot stackable, so you can cast 3 points of it and get sure hits on the next three shots. Bummer if your bow breaks on the first one, though...

I was going to post this:

Quote

That is of course assuming that the aimed blow mechanics apply to missile fire. Personally I would say that they do, but I'm not entirely sure that the rules are explicit on that point. It's in the "melee" section...

Then I spotted this:

Quote

These rules are strictly for use with hand-to-hand combat
and missile combat, not with spells.

So it's clear that aimed blows do apply to missile fire.

Edited December 3, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[womble]

Also, speaking from experience, that aimed shot to the head still might not be the best choice... Think of a creature that has extra armour to the head. I still recall, a couple of decades later, using Sureshot to defeat atmospheric conditions, calling an aimed shot to a head, using a Speedart, rolling highish on the damage (for once) and the shot mostly bounced off the 10 point horns-and-skull armour of the broo shaman. But, as Thor proved on Thanos, going for the chest is just as risky. Probably better to pick a less obviously-in-need-of-protection location and hope for a functional incapacitation rather than an insta-jib.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, womble said:

Also, speaking from experience, that aimed shot to the head still might not be the best choice... 

In my experience, people have gone for headshots because that's an obvious choice, one that other people will also go for and so avoids the need for coordination. Perhaps abdomen would be a better choice for this, it has the same hit points as the head but has a higher chance of taking a hit on a random location roll. It's also more dramatic, and large non-humanoids might have more abdomen hits than head (although in RQG this will only ever be 1 or 2 points difference).

Edited December 3, 2018 by PhilHibbs

[Pentallion]

zombies

 

[Ultor]

5 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Sureshot will become less and less useful as skills approach 95% anyway (and most characters will start out pretty close to that, if they are in a cult that gives Sureshot), other than for this very use case.

Yes, our new PC Foundchild cultist started at 85% and said he just didn't see the point of wasting Rune Points on Sureshot uses. The spell needs rethinking for the higher-powered RQG.

[Pentallion]

I think you guys missed the OP's point.  Say I'm 100% to hit.  I go for headshot, I'm now 50% to hit.  With sureshot, I'm still 95% to hit.

Perhaps all sureshot needs is to be renamed Called Shot.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Pentallion

[drablak]

never mind 

Edited December 3, 2018 by drablak

[PhilHibbs]

Maybe it should be reworked in a similar manner to (weapon) Trance, where each MP gives a bonus to hit. Since it only affects a single arrow, maybe +20 per MP spent, with full bonus to crit and special, so 5 MP gives +100.

[womble]

My example above, there was a wind wall giving a terrible (don't remember how much) negative to hit. Plus the half-chance for calling head. The character was a master shootist, but would have been at way under 50% to make the shot without Sureshot, even after adding in Speedart. Sureshot is part of a master archer's toolkit for making the shots that simply have to be made regardless of interference and difficulty.

[Atgxtg]

What if the spell ignored penalties to the attack? So it would be 95%, bu it would always be 95%, ignoring things like crosswinds, partial cover, poor lighting, etc.

 

That would make it similar to that magic  spear  that was in the old Griffin Mountain that would always hit (but break if it was forced to hit an impossible shot). 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Atgxtg

[womble]

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

What if the spell ignored penalties to the attack? So it would be 95%, bu it would always be 95%, ignoring things like crosswinds, partial cover, poor lighting, etc.

That's what it does:

Quote

...automatically hits—regardless of movement, range (if it is within maximum missile range for the weapon), concealment, etc...

I take the 'etc' to mean all environmental modifiers. I think I'd be inclined to say that if there were actual cover that could potentially stop the projectile, close enough to the target that the projectile would have to pull an impossible trajectory to hit, that hits to the covered locations would hit the cover. But an aimed shot at an exposed location will auto-hit. I think I would disallow Sureshot (it wouldn't trigger) if the target was, say, visible only because of a mirror that bent the light back near 180 and the arrow couldn't make a nice parabola that 'looks' like an arrow trajectory. I don't see it as letting you shoot round corners, just meaning something you have a tiny chance to hit becomes a near certainty.

 

[Atgxtg]

9 minutes ago, womble said:

That's what it does:

I take the 'etc' to mean all environmental modifiers. I think I'd be inclined to say that if there were actual cover that could potentially stop the projectile, close enough to the target that the projectile would have to pull an impossible trajectory to hit, that hits to the covered locations would hit the cover. But an aimed shot at an exposed location will auto-hit. I think I would disallow Sureshot (it wouldn't trigger) if the target was, say, visible only because of a mirror that bent the light back near 180 and the arrow couldn't make a nice parabola that 'looks' like an arrow trajectory. I don't see it as letting you shoot round corners, just meaning something you have a tiny chance to hit becomes a near certainty.

 

But if it did allow you to shoot around corners it would certainly keep the spell useful to characters with high skill. Need to get a shot at someone who has cover behind an arrow loop. No problem. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Atgxtg

[Mechashef]

In defence of Sureshot, I suspect that most people are arguably making missile fire more effective than it should be by ignoring a rule (to be fair the rule is perhaps too “crunchy” for most people).

 

Each point of wind STR greater than 10 reduces the accuracy of missiles by 5%.

 

A wind strength of 7 to 12 is a breeze and easily blows out candles.

A STR of 13 to 18 is a light wind and the minimum amount for good sailing.

A STR of 19 to 24 is a moderate wind (though I’d argue it really is getting into strong wind based on the description).

etc

 

So even a light wind, presumably very common, will be reducing the adventurer’s missile skills by 15% to 40%.

A “moderate” wind will reduce missile skills by 45% to 70%.

 

And of course the manual states that Dragon Pass is one of the windiest areas (blame all those pesky Orlanth worshippers).

 

Start deducting 50% of 60% from the adventurer’s missile skills on a regular basis and Sureshot will start to look atttactive.

[Mechashef]

And while I’m on that sort of topic, am I the only one who internally screams when I read things in the manual like 

“... reduces the accuracy of missiles by -5%”

or

“a -5% penalty”

 

 

[womble]

6 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

But if it did allow you to shoot around corners it would certainly keep the spell useful to characters with high skill. Need to get a shot at someone who has cover behind an arrow loop. No problem. 

If they're behind an arrow loop, you can see enough of them for Sureshot to work on an aimed shot to the bit you can see. If they're stood to one side they're not shooting or looking at you...

[Atgxtg]

4 hours ago, Mechashef said:

And while I’m on that sort of topic, am I the only one who internally screams when I read things in the manual like 

“... reduces the accuracy of missiles by -5%”

or

“a -5% penalty”

No, but you probably get the correct answers to equations like x=10-(-5), y=3+2x2 or even=STR+DEX/2.

 

 

 

[Ultor]

12 hours ago, Mechashef said:

In defence of Sureshot, I suspect that most people are arguably making missile fire more effective than it should be by ignoring a rule (to be fair the rule is perhaps too “crunchy” for most people).

 

Each point of wind STR greater than 10 reduces the accuracy of missiles by 5%.

 

A wind strength of 7 to 12 is a breeze and easily blows out candles.

A STR of 13 to 18 is a light wind and the minimum amount for good sailing.

A STR of 19 to 24 is a moderate wind (though I’d argue it really is getting into strong wind based on the description).

etc

 

So even a light wind, presumably very common, will be reducing the adventurer’s missile skills by 15% to 40%.

A “moderate” wind will reduce missile skills by 45% to 70%.

 

And of course the manual states that Dragon Pass is one of the windiest areas (blame all those pesky Orlanth worshippers).

 

Start deducting 50% of 60% from the adventurer’s missile skills on a regular basis and Sureshot will start to look atttactive.

I'd *completely* missed this. Thanks!

Given our Vingan Wind Lady summons sylphs on a regular basis, there's bound to be a lot of wind around. Sureshot sure becomes attractive then.

 

[drablak]

12 hours ago, Mechashef said:

Each point of wind STR greater than 10 reduces the accuracy of missiles by 5%.

I had missed that as well, thanks for pointing it out.

[soltakss]

Sureshot means you "Always" hit, even when aiming, so yes, I'd say that is how it works. As has been pointed out, with bad weather and poor visibility, your chance to hit might be reduced to virtually nothing, but Sureshot means you hit on 01-95.