Greg Stafford's King Arthur Pendragon RPG returns to Chaosium ownership

[MOB]

Chaosium Inc, original publishers of Greg Stafford's King Arthur Pendragon roleplaying game, will once again become the owners and publishers of the game, it was announced today.

All rights to KAP and the Prince Valiant story-telling game have been transferred from the ownership of Nocturnal Media to Chaosium.

More details (and a wonderful Greg Stafford anecdote) at the link: 

https://www.chaosium.com/bloggreg-staffords-king-arthur-pendragon-rpg-returns-to-chaosium-ownership

 

[TrippyHippy]

This is good news, although I am still a bit anxious about getting my Kickstarter stuff - will Paladin and Mort D'Arthur and, to a degree, the Aquelarre campaigns be delivered shortly? I already have Prince Valiant. Beyond that, this is really good news - Pendragon is basically the best set of fantasy rpg rules out there, in my opinion, and the setting and writing is sublime, naturally. The development plans outlined by David Larkins earlier in the year are also really something to get excited by.

Moving on, ought Pendragon, Prince Valiant, Paladin (and potentially Myrmidon, Samurai, etc) have their own forum section now? 

Edited December 11, 2018 by TrippyHippy

[Scotty]

15 minutes ago, TrippyHippy said:

Moving on, ought Pendragon, Prince Valiant, [...] have their own forum section now? 

Been here a while:

https://basicroleplaying.org/forum/68-pendragon-prince-valiant/

[TrippyHippy]

10 minutes ago, Scotty said:

Been here a while:

https://basicroleplaying.org/forum/68-pendragon-prince-valiant/

Yeah, but it's stuck inside the Mythic Worlds section with other titles. It could be on it's own seperate and distinct forum, alongside RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu. 

[Warthur]

I'ma repeat TrippyHippy's question: does this include Paladin? I dunno whether the rights to that are held under the overall KAP umbrella (since it's a spin-off game using the same system) or not.

(I assume Aquelarre, being an entirely different game connected only by virtue of being another Nocturnal project, isn't part of this deal.)

[SDLeary]

5 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

Yeah, but it's stuck inside the Mythic Worlds section with other titles. It could be on it's own seperate and distinct forum, alongside RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu. 

I agree. After all it it is a full line of product, with a history to it. 

SDLeary

[creativehum]

35 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

I agree. After all it it is a full line of product, with a history to it. 

SDLeary

Agreed.

And for what it's worth (which may not be much), while other people, when they think of Chaosium, think of Call of Cthulhu or RuneQuest, I will always associate Chaosium with King Arthur Pendragon. It is one of my favorite RPGs and one I have spent the most time with. When I think of Chaosium, it is the game I think of.

Also, Greg considered it the pinnacle of his game design. I think it deserves a shot at getting more attention and love.

[Atgxtg]

36 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Agreed.

And for what it's worth (which may not be much), while other people, when they think of Chaosium, think of Call of Cthulhu or RuneQuest, I will always associate Chaosium with King Arthur Pendragon. It is one of my favorite RPGs and one I have spent the most time with. When I think of Chaosium, it is the game I think of.

It's the one I ended up running the most. Stormbringer and RQ got good playing time, but Pendragon is my players' RPG of  preference.

36 minutes ago, creativehum said:

Also, Greg considered it the pinnacle of his game design. I think it deserves a shot at getting more attention and love.

It looks like it's going to get it too. From what I've heard from Nocturnal, there are several Pendragon supplements in the pipeline, and some new RPGs that use the Pendragon game mechanics. 

[AJ The Ronin]

So, the questions:

1. Will you reprint The Great Pendragon Campaign? Or at least make the Print on Demand?

2. Will Paladin become part of Chaosium? 

3. Will you continue publishing new stuff and reprinting old stuff?

4. Is Stormbringer the next game to return home? Elfquest? Worlds of Wonder?

[PhilHibbs]

8 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

This is good news, although I am still a bit anxious about getting my Kickstarter stuff - will Paladin and Mort D'Arthur and, to a degree, the Aquelarre campaigns be delivered shortly?

From the article on Chaosium.com:

Earlier this year at Gen Con it was announced that Chaosium was assisting Nocturnal Media in release and distribution of its products, and would help with the fulfilment of several of its Kickstarters. That assistance will continue.

[Atgxtg]

31 minutes ago, ajtheronin said:

So, the questions:

1. Will you reprint The Great Pendragon Campaign? Or at least make the Print on Demand?

You can get a "Print of Demand" Hardcopy of the GPC at DrivethruRPG. 

31 minutes ago, ajtheronin said:

2. Will Paladin become part of Chaosium? 

. Technically,  I think Paldadin is considered to be it's own game, and isstill owned by Nocturnal. 

31 minutes ago, ajtheronin said:

3. Will you continue publishing new stuff and reprinting old stuff?

The is a lot of KAP stuff in the Pipeline and Book of Sires could be out by the end of the year. Based on the original post,  I expect things to improve as far as new stuff availability goes. 

31 minutes ago, ajtheronin said:

4. Is Stormbringer the next game to return home? Elfquest? Worlds of Wonder?

Stormbringer and Elfquest would be difficult, since they are games based on someone else stories and settings, so any "return" would requires new arrangements with Mr. Moorcock or the Pinis.

Base on what I've read on the forums, it would seem doubtful, as the properties might not be profitable enough to be worthwhile, after the licensing fees.  Especially as neither Elric or ElfQuest are as popular now as they were in the 80s.

[foolcat]

KAP returning home is good news. Kudos to Nocturnal for keeping the flame alive, and for getting Paladin off the ground, which looks awesome. Can't wait till I get to hold the books in my hands.

Now, about Nephilim... (just kidding 😉) 

 

[Atgxtg]

I wonder just who will be in charge of it now. Greg was working on a successor of sorts over at Nocturnal, but I don't know if any of the creative team from Nocturnal will be handing Pendragon now or if Chasoium is going to assign somebody.

[AJ The Ronin]

1 minute ago, Atgxtg said:

I wonder just who will be in charge of it now. Greg was working on a successor of sorts over at Nocturnal, but I don't know if any of the creative team from Nocturnal will be handing Pendragon now or if Chasoium is going to assign somebody.

I know this may be an unpopular opinion but the should let @John Wick run this line (he has a passion for the game and Stratford knew it)

[creativehum]

While I won't begrudge people wanting to buy new things... my own focus would be playing the game with what is already available. 

All you need, after all, is the core book and "The Great Pendragon Campaign" to have two or more years of play. Most of the supplements are there for folks who want more historically driven detail in their games... which may or may not be what many people want or need. 

For my own druthers, shared advice on how to play, tools to help play, and shared experience of how games have gone would be the real win for forums.

To be clear: I do have the Book of Knights & Ladies, the Book of Uther (for a smattering of historical grounding for the first two phases), and I want to pick up the Book of Feasts (and the cards) because it seems like a blast. But these are garnishes for a game that is really complete in two volumes.

[SDLeary]

3 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

I wonder just who will be in charge of it now. Greg was working on a successor of sorts over at Nocturnal, but I don't know if any of the creative team from Nocturnal will be handing Pendragon now or if Chasoium is going to assign somebody.

Yes, Greg was working on 6th Ed. But I think that that was way far out. Before that, the line-up was somewhat full with Sires, Feasts, the new book on Magic, and others. In addition to these, there was Myrmidon and a Samurai game. If these and Paladin are all coming with Pendragon, then I hope the line editor chosen is well familiar!

SDLeary

EDIT: Never mind! Same editor. Welcome David!

Edited December 11, 2018 by SDLeary

[sirlarkins]

25 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

Yes, Greg was working on 6th Ed. But I think that that was way far out. Before that, the line-up was somewhat full with Sires, Feasts, the new book on Magic, and others. In addition to these, there was Myrmidon and a Samurai game. If these and Paladin are all coming with Pendragon, then I hope the line editor chosen is well familiar!

SDLeary

EDIT: Never mind! Same editor. Welcome David!

::waves::

Thanks! I'm looking forward to carrying on Greg's legacy to the best of my ability, ably assisted by the good folks at Chaosium. I am the current custodian of his digital and paper KAP archives, and we communicated pretty much daily right up until literally the day he passed, so I've got plenty to work with to that end.

[Atgxtg]

Welcome, and good luck. Obviously Greg was a tough act to follow, but it's nice to know that things are going to be in some of the same hands that have been overseeing the game in the last few years.

[TrippyHippy]

 

9 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

You can get a "Print of Demand" Hardcopy of the GPC at DrivethruRPG. 

Regarding The Great Pendragon Campaign, while you can get it on POD, it deserves an update. Additional material has been written for it, while the original page count had to be compromised at the time meaning certain things - most notably an index - couldn't be fitted it. Moreover, Pendragon 5.2 has had something of a makeover in terms of layout and design, and I could see this as a good thing for GPC too. 

[Atgxtg]

3 hours ago, TrippyHippy said:

 

Regarding The Great Pendragon Campaign, while you can get it on POD, it deserves an update. Additional material has been written for it, while the original page count had to be compromised at the time meaning certain things - most notably an index - couldn't be fitted it. Moreover, Pendragon 5.2 has had something of a makeover in terms of layout and design, and I could see this as a good thing for GPC too. 

Definately. Juding from some of the stuff in the Book of Uther, I think an update was probably in the works. Personally, I hope they hold off in a GPC update until they release the stuff that's in the pipeline. THat way if they do update the GPC they can incorporate the stuff from Sires, Castles and Magicians into it. That way we won't need a third update.

[creativehum]

My own thoughts on several of these matters:

I hope not too much is incorporated into the next revision of the GPC (whenever that happens) from the current crop of supplements.

I am so glad the supplements are there for people who want more detail, more history, more... everything. 

But the fact is KAP (and the GPC) work as is. They were built from the mythical and storytelling foundations of Le Morte D'Arthur. By focusing the game this way, the GM and Players can skip over lots of historical/reality details, focusing instead on the tales found in Le Morte D'Arthur building with a sense of story. (Note that even the GPC warns GM's that if the additional Winter Phase economics become too much one should drop them.)

To layer more and more details into the two key books would be to suggest "This history and this detail is required to play the game." And this isn't the case at all.

As for the timeline, yes, one can start earlier... and the material in the Book of Uther looks compelling. But how many years do new players really need to play before the Sword in the Stone shows up? I think the periods Uther and Anarchy are enough to make the point that Arthur's reign will be a Really Good Thing. And if a Referee want to add more years, the Book of Uther is right there for him to use if he wishes.

David, as you are reading this:

I'm sure Greg's ever-curious mind dove into all sorts of elements and ideas and history and facts as he researched all things Arthurian. But most of us don't need to cram Greg's decades-worth of research into our game. To have core game elements that allow the game to be played as is, with additional elements as a GM or group desires, is an excellent way to set up the line in my view. And let us keep in mind KAP is already crammed with historical detail for the GM and Players to absorb. 

Full disclosure: KAP, GPC, Book of Knights & Ladies, and the Book of Feasts and Cards is all I think really need. I also really love the Book of Uther for the grounded context of the early years of the campaign, even though, after some consideration, I don't need to run the additional years in the game.

I look forward to seeing whatever supplements come out in the future... but I heartily suggest letting the core books remain core, and allowing people to add supplemental material from supplements.

[Atgxtg]

22 minutes ago, creativehum said:

My own thoughts on several of these matters:

I hope not too much is incorporated into the next revision of the GPC (whenever that happens) from the current crop of supplements.

I am so glad the supplements are there for people who want more detail, more history, more... everything. 

But the fact is KAP (and the GPC) work as is. They were built from the mythical and storytelling foundations of Le Morte D'Arthur. By focusing the game this way, the GM and Players can skip over lots of historical/reality details, focusing instead on the tales found in Le Morte D'Arthur building with a sense of story. (Note that even the GPC warns GM's that if the additional Winter Phase economics become too much one should drop them.)

I'm not saying that they need to add the complexity of the supplements just bring the book in line wit the newer stuff. For instance using the same Luck table as Cymric characters get in K&L, and giving them spear expertise and generally incorporating things that are updates or changes to the core rules, not alternate or advanced rules. So things like the basic battle system in the book could stay as it is, but we could get haubergeons on the core armor table in the rulebook.

What I'd like to see is the characters and stats be the same regardless of what level of details GM chooses to use. 

 

 

22 minutes ago, creativehum said:

To layer more and more details into the two key books would be to suggest "This history and this detail is required to play the game." And this isn't the case at all.

No it isn't. I agree more detail isn't needed in the game. But what I would like to see is, in cases where Greg changed something basic, that the next version of the rulebook incorporate it. Greg did some of that with 5.2. Some of the manorial improvements from Book of the Manor were added to the price tables. Simple, easy, and doesn't make KAP any more complex.

I think all the various "Book of" supplements should remain separate add ons, but that any thing that changed or was added to the core system be incorporated into the main rules. For example, Siege skill was added in the GPC and K&L, so I thinkit should be added to the knights starting skills. 

 

22 minutes ago, creativehum said:

. But how many years do new players really need to play before the Sword in the Stone shows up?

None. A GM could actually start the campaign with that, if he wanted to, if his players understand enough of the game mechanics and culture to follow along. In fact in 3rd and 4th edition the actually started the campaign even later, after Arthur had become High King.I'd even go so far as to say that as most people expect to play in the time of King Arthur, that the latter time might even be more appropriate.

But the Uther expansion isn't about giving players needed time, but to expand the timeline. 

 

22 minutes ago, creativehum said:

 look forward to seeing whatever supplements come out in the future... but I heartily suggest letting the core books remain core, and allowing people to add supplemental material from supplements.

I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. What I was talking about was making sure the various rules and stats remains consistent. For example Gothic Plate is listed as 18 points in KAP, but 21 ((with a Frog Helm to boot) in K&L. I think Gothic plate's stats should be the same regardless of which book you pull them out of. So the different values should be reconciled in some way.

In other words not so much change the game or make it more complex, but edit it so everything is consistent with the other books. That way if someone decided to buy a supplment in mid campaign  he won't have to alter his existing characters.

 

[The Hooded Claw]

I am hoping that Chaosium bring their wonderful ‘new era’ production values to bear.

[SilverSeraph]

Really hope some kind of partnership with Nocturnal continues.  Many of Nocturnal's products fit right in with Chaosium's lines.  Aquelarre, Hellywood, Story Path Cards and Whimsy Deck would be right at home in Chaosiums web store, and it could only be a benefit for Nocturnal.

[jeffjerwin]

Now, I am a KAP writer (or will be, when the book comes out) so I have a vested interest in it continuing to grow... but, there are missing bits from KAP, even for a traditional chivalric campaign:

1. The Grail Quest (in all its variations)

2. Sailing and Sea Battles (they do occur in several romances)

3. The basic assumption is that the knights have lands and property. The knight errant - the near beggar/fugitive knight - is not really a focus, even though it's a dominant part of several romance cycles.