Sartar's Larnsting Magic

[Darius West]

On 12/25/2018 at 1:26 PM, jeffjerwin said:

Interesting that Mularik gets ganked eventually and conveniently for Argrath. But he claims to be a descendant of Arkat, which might not be quite the same as being a true follower of Arkat.

The inference is that Mularik comes from Arkat's Hold and is an Arkati sorcerer.  And yes, Mularik gets control of Tarsh and decides to behave like a dick and gets ganked.  As to what a true follower of Arkat is, given the seven versions of Arkat that emerged in the Safelster area, perhaps we first need to ask "which Arkat"?

On 12/25/2018 at 1:26 PM, jeffjerwin said:

BTW, Darius, I know that you hate chaos, but it's doubtful that things were ever meant to be that cut and dried in Greg's Glorantha (though they can be that way in your Glorantha). The Red Moon can certainly be reasoned with. So could Nysalor. We don't even know what happened in the battle between Nysalor and Arkat, but it may not have turned out the way you think.

Arkat made himself into the perfect example of everything that was wrong with Nysalor's philosophy.  None of this Hegelian Thesis/Antithesis/Synthesis nonsense.  Only the antithesis walked away.

[davecake]

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

In short, it resembles the Temple of the Thirty in Gemmell's Drenai saga, as I suggested it would ages ago when discussing this on the digest.

Never read it. 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Illumination appears to be helpful, but not exactly required - Vasana, Yanioth and Vishi aren't picked out as enlightened in any way, and Vishi is doing exactly the shamanic stuff he had been trained for while the sisters rely on brute presence.

It's unclear whether that incident is quite the same thing, though it is certainly something along the same lines. 

 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Now if we had a couple of Warlocks displaying these spells in their stats, I wouldn't have complained.

Why? Do we have the stats of any warlocks? Couldn't the wyter cast the necessary magic? I don't really know what you are insisting on - we have a fairly complete description of the process, plus we know the details vary considerably between groups, so what would one set of stats really prove?

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Bur then these requirements sort of contradict the claim that they come from whichever magical tradition.

They are just suggestions. There are multiple ways it could happen. A shamanic group can already become discorporate, sorcerers could have some form of equivalent spell, the wyter could do it, they could have items or special group ceremonies.  I really think the details vary by group and sometimes individual practitioner. 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Their magical communion for instance might be a lot more permanent than just for the duration of the battle, which would alter their psychology and behavior significantly.

There is no real suggestion anywhere that that happens for any of them. But sure, if you want that to be a thing for some groups, write it into your Glorantha. 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Why not give them something similar to the forest song of the aldryami? It could be a secondary skill latched onto their primary magical ability score, or to their passion loyalty to unit.

Again, sure, nothing in the material really suggests that, but if you want it for some particular unit. why not write it into your Glorantha? 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Being on the receiving side of a regimental spirit attack would still keep me somewhat adrift in narrating.

It's pretty much the same as being on the spirit plane, only there is a big collective spirit everyone is linked to (which you already have a description of for most of the SMU). Rules wise, it is spirit combat and magic casting. 

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

Finding the common ground for descriptions of reactions tp psychedelic effects might be easier after sharing a psychedelic experience, so what movie or piece of music would be a good shared experience if you shy away from shared chemical exposure? Lucy in the Sky from Yellow Submarine?

There is plenty of material you can read for descriptions of vision quests (of various kinds) if you want inspiration. This isn't something the rules are ever going to be able to fix for you. 

[davecake]

Continuing the idea that we actually have a fair idea how 'regimental' magic works in RQG game terms now, consider She That Strikes From Afar in the RQ Glorantha Bestiary.

Now, I'm going to add as a caveat that the rules part of how wyters are described is a bit messy. The MindLink spell is mentioned, even though it isn't in the core rules. We can assume that it is the same as in RQ2 (the RQ3 version didn't differ much). I'm also a bit vague on what 'A wyter spends points of its characteristic POW instead of Rune points when casting Rune spells with a chance of success equal to its CHAx5.' means in practice - for one thing, it isn't clear if this is simply a permanent loss of POW that needs POW Gain rolls to replace (which would make wyters casting rune magic a desperate act that permanently weakens it) or if it is restored more in the manner of Rune Points or similar, for another thing She That Strikes From Afar has a separate number of Rune Points listed in the stats, which is confusing. But ignoring the possibility of mass Rune Magic casting for the moment (though that seems rather the point of wyters). I am assuming that STSFA can use the Rune Points of her priests to cast spells via the Mind Link, and their magic points. 

MindLink allows the sharing of spells, and magic points, and at least 7 priests of the Minor Class unit are directly linked to She That Strikes From Afar. 

She That Strikes From Afar has the special ability to cast Madness using magic points, and on multiple targets using multiple magic points, and can take on a material form. 

So an attack from a Minor Class unit generally probably starts with the Discorporate Lunar magicians scouting the enemy, and then She That Strikes From Afar manifests. 

The physical form of STSFA appears as a red woman with 14 arms, but for game rules purposes is a huge (3x12x3) Lune.

Not only can STSFA use the MPs and probably RPs of her Mind Linked priests, but priests can also cast Visibility on themselves, and manifest in the material world, and then cast spells on STSFA or others. They can probably do this with relative safety as long as STSFA has eliminated any major magical defences. 

As a Lune, she is quite physically vulnerable, so her Chief Priest will buff her with magical defences - probably something like a Shield 6. And STSFA can also use her priests Rune Points and MPs to heal herself, or they can heal her directly - and also shore up her defences. 

She is enveloping multiple people per round. Most of those enveloped will fall catatonic (POW vs her POW, which is likely to be either 31 or 46), a sizable minority (special attack) will fanatically attack someone, usually their colleagues. She is also spirit attacking, and slowly MP draining, those who resist the Lune Madness. And is able to draw on her Mind Linked priests for other attack spells. 

She is also blasting Madness spells all over the place - STSFA can cast these with magic points, and can grab magic points from her priestesses for this purpose. So basically STSFA can hit potentially dozens of people with Madness a round, and a few of those are attacking each other. 

The discorporate priestesses, at least those that have become Visible, can follow behind the wave of madness (the ones that aren't visible are supporting STSFA directly, and/or defending against attacks on the spirit plane. They can magically attack the few that have resisted STSFAs Madness, hitting them with spells like Befuddle just to stop them taking effective action, or Mindblast for a more permanent take down. And they can cast other magic. I suspect the Lunar minor elementals are popular - a small elemental isn't normally very dangerous, but in a camp full of people that are mostly catatonic or distracted, it can kill a lot of them quite quickly, and wreak other havoc (such as setting fires, or collapsing structures). They may have a few other surprises with them, such as Lunar demons. 

So what can their opponents do? Well, they can work out a well coordinated response, such as magicians dedicatedly dispelling defences while melee forces rush her, and hope to take STSFA out with hit point damage - but STSFA probably just heals herself if this doesn't succeed very quickly. They can have enough magical counter defences on their troops to deal with the Madness, and hope to fend off STSFA physically. They can desperately dispel or take out fanaticised madmen, and deal with follow up attacks, and hope to just outlast the attackers magic point supplies. Some units may be able to send in their own summoned creatures against her. Most of these tactics aren't great, but they might stop STSFA from effectively destroying or disrupting the unit before her entourages MPs have been deleted - and very soon afterwards the catatonic recover, so there is a fairly short window for STSFA to convert her wave of madness into lasting harm. The best tactic is probably to unleash their own wyter or similar level magical force, but most units will have a weaker wyter than a specialist magician unit. A very well prepared group of sorcerers could make a giant Neutralise Moon Protective Circle or something, and hope to get everyone in it in time, and that the collateral damage isn't too high. 

So thats what a 'Dragon Pass' magician unit attacking looks like. For other units, consider how much more or less effective the unit is, and who the magicians who make it up are. Other wyters have different abilities, and quite likely a wider range of them. Some will be even less subtle (the Eaglebrowns wyter is Thunderbird, who is going to raining down thunder and lightning, and his support acts will include a lot of Praxian shamans and air spirits, the Earth Twins are going to have a lot of Earth Quakes and malevolent earth elementals), some will require a bit more creativity in describing the magical effect in game terms (the Eleven Lights Starfire power is definitely not standard Orlanthi magic, but the description in The Eleven Lights is fairly vivid), some might be quite subtle, wreaking havoc on the minds of a units troops and morale and cohesion as much as physical damage. Some of the SMU will use draconic effects. Most will have a wider variety of magicians in the attack than I've represented here, in the SMU often including tricksters, sorcerers, a few mad Illuminates wielding unusual magic. 

[Darius West]

22 hours ago, Joerg said:

Being on the receiving side of a regimental spirit attack would still keep me somewhat adrift in narrating. Finding the common ground for descriptions of reactions tp psychedelic effects might be easier after sharing a psychedelic experience, so what movie or piece of music would be a good shared experience if you shy away from shared chemical exposure? Lucy in the Sky from Yellow Submarine?

I am more inclined to see it as a straight up horror movie.  Wraith-like beings moving through the formation, invisible to most, striking apparently at random, panic, people simply falling down dead with their souls destroyed, unressurectable.  Magic going off without apparent source, some people seeing assailants, some imagining them, everyone trying to make sense of the situation.  Of course with tougher and more experienced units there would be less panic, and more tight order formation around the unit banner and focus of magical defenses.  The entire experience will be hardest on the officers, who will be the primary target for the assault, and without whom the unit cohesion will break.

Describing this from the perspective of the spirit attackers will likely be almost as disorderly, but they are likely to be more coordinated and to arrive in formation with a clear plan and order of battle to destroy certain targets, such as the standard bearer and the officers.  Sure, the spirit plane may seem psychedelic, but that takes second place to the action, and the threat of spiritual destruction that the individuals involve will face.  Magical attack is extremely high risk for all involved, and that will color everything.  Worst of all will be wyter vs wyter combat.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Darius West

[davecake]

3 hours ago, Darius West said:

I am more inclined to see it as a straight up horror movie.  Wraith-like beings moving through the formation, invisible to most, striking apparently at random, panic, people simply falling down dead with their souls destroyed, unressurectable.  Magic going off without apparent source, some people seeing assailants, some imagining them, everyone trying to make sense of the situation.  Of course with tougher and more experienced units there would be less panic, and more tight order formation around the unit banner and focus of magical defenses.  The entire experience will be hardest on the officers, who will be the primary target for the assault, and without whom the unit cohesion will break.

I think it very much depends on the unit, some magicians will be complex and covert similar to what you suggest, some will be all crash and thunder. Being attacked by the Thunderbird is going to be unsubtle, being attacked by the Snakepipe Dancers might be quite confusing and hallucinator. 

But we do know the 'wyter' or oversoul is an important part of the process for the Lunars and the SMU. So there will be a central spirit of significant power, usually not subtle, rather than just a bunch of magicians acting together.