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Cost of casting Spirit Magic


Puckohue

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"A temple will usually cast cult magic (such as Healing magic or special Rune spells) on its members, but typically expects to receive a sacrifice from the beneficiary equal to 20 L per Rune point expended. One-use spells cost ten times this amount. If the caster must spend magic points, the beneficiary must spend an additional 1 L per point spent."

(RQ:G page 406)

But what about the casting of Spirit Magic spells? What would be the normal cost to expect to get someone to cast a spirit magic spell?

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Puckohue said:

(RQ:G page 406)

But what about the casting of Spirit Magic spells? What would be the normal cost to expect to get someone to cast a spirit magic spell?

 

 

It depends if the spell requires spending POW or not. If not, it shouldn't be much. I think probably around 1/4 to 1/2 of the cost of learning the spell, but of course, healing spell are much in demand and I presume the awaited gift is much higher. If POW is requested, at least 1 point is provided by the caster, and so the bets are off.

Kloster

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31 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I think that is you answer. 1 L per MP spent. Obviously much more for non-cultists.

I don't think that's the full measure of the price they'll charge. That 1L for supporting a Rune Spell includes the charge for knowing the spell (covered in the charge for the Rune Spell element). If you want someone to cast a sneaky Bladesharp lots on your rapier before a duel, you have to pay them for knowing Bladesharp lots, as part of the price, as well as the MP cast.

 

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1 hour ago, womble said:

I don't think that's the full measure of the price they'll charge. That 1L for supporting a Rune Spell includes the charge for knowing the spell (covered in the charge for the Rune Spell element). If you want someone to cast a sneaky Bladesharp lots on your rapier before a duel, you have to pay them for knowing Bladesharp lots, as part of the price, as well as the MP cast.

 

That's why my answer was 1/4 to 1/2 to the price of learning the spell. And as the cost of learning is higher for a non initiate, so is the cost of casting.

Kloster

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Yeah, for spirit magic, the cost is for knowing it, not casting it.  Dunno of the top of my noggin if RQG has caps to spirit magic, but trivial castings (1-3) imho would be essentially free for cultists in good standing or on an errand for the cult.  4-5 are going to be rarer, thus more $, while 6 (thinking of that whole reattach-limb breakpoint which is so...artificial?) would likely be rarer still.  Spells above 6 would be like hens teeth, imo...more a matter of finding someone with the spell in the first place.

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1 hour ago, styopa said:

Yeah, for spirit magic, the cost is for knowing it, not casting it.  Dunno of the top of my noggin if RQG has caps to spirit magic, but trivial castings (1-3) imho would be essentially free for cultists in good standing or on an errand for the cult.  4-5 are going to be rarer, thus more $, while 6 (thinking of that whole reattach-limb breakpoint which is so...artificial?) would likely be rarer still.  Spells above 6 would be like hens teeth, imo...more a matter of finding someone with the spell in the first place.

It has a cap on how many points you can know, total (ex matrix and spirit storage) but no cap on the magnitude of a given variable spell. It's just difficult to find a source for a really big variable... I'd almost wonder whether some geometric progression (squared, maybe) in the mix would be reasonable.

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5 hours ago, womble said:

It has a cap on how many points you can know, total (ex matrix and spirit storage) but no cap on the magnitude of a given variable spell. It's just difficult to find a source for a really big variable... I'd almost wonder whether some geometric progression (squared, maybe) in the mix would be reasonable.

I don't think spell in matrix count in the CHA limit, and spell known by the fetch have their own CHA limit, which is not the one of the character. Idem for spells known by bound spirits.

Kloster

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2 hours ago, Kloster said:

I don't think spell in matrix count in the CHA limit, and spell known by the fetch have their own CHA limit, which is not the one of the character. Idem for spells known by bound spirits.

Kloster

Apologies. I was too colloquial in my typing. "ex matrix and spirit storage" should have been "excluding matrix and spirit storage". We're saying the same thing! :) \o/

 

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20 hours ago, Puckohue said:

But what about the casting of Spirit Magic spells? What would be the normal cost to expect to get someone to cast a spirit magic spell?

I'm interested in what circumstances this would happen, bearing in mind that most spirit magic lasts 5 minutes or is instant. The basic cost of casting spirit magic is zero in my games, players cast spirit magic on each other all the time (Healing, Mobility, Strength, etc) and never charge each other. Most is cast on the fly. Enchantments are covered by the rules already mentioned as they require POW.

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7 minutes ago, David Scott said:

I'm interested in what circumstances this would happen, bearing in mind that most spirit magic lasts 5 minutes or is instant.

Heal to heal a wound. Control Entity, to order a possessing entity to leave it's current home. Dispel Magic to remove a long lasting sorcery spell. Repair, well, to repair an object. Summon entity, if you know to control them but not to summon them.

Kloster

 

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13 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Heal to heal a wound.

The I need healing box on page 150 covers this. A Little Healing Fast, this is where spirit magic has its niche. Heal 2 stops bleeding, heal 6 can reattach a maimed limb. Depending on the area that needs it you have either 5 or 10 mins to deal with the injury. This in my games is battlefield stuff, who do you pay to do this? no one, It's the players. If you've brought along an NPC healer, then it's standard healer pay of 80L/year, but I'd more likely use the 1L/day rate for a guard and double it. However:

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However, it is a custom enforced by the gods themselves that if a character is saved from disease or poison or maiming or death by the actions of a healer, he immediately will give the healer’s temple an appropriately generous gift or percentage of the person’s income for the next year.

The next one for me is a non-starter.

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Control Entity, to order a possessing entity to leave it's current home.

For example you couldn't use it on spirit bound into an item. This is where you get a shaman, priest, or other rune level in to do this kind of work.

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Dispel Magic to remove a long lasting sorcery spell.

This an interesting one and for me would depend on who or what the target was. However it depends on what you mean by long lasting? A day long spell is intensity 9, a week is 12 and a season is 15 (the sorcerer in my game can cast seasonal magic). A dispel magic 9 or even 15 is going to be a hard one to find. Take it to your temple and get Dismiss Magic cast, it only has to overcome the Strength of the the spell not the total intensity.

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Repair, well, to repair an object.

Repair is perhaps the only one I can see actually arising in a game. However I have at least 2 players with repair 1 which is enough cover most things. A skilled crafter can repair stuff with a craft roll, they are only 3-10 clacks per day.

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Summon entity, if you know to control them but not to summon them.

Other than the obvious problem of finding someone who knows the summon to match your control, this is one of the best adventure hooks I can imagine. Are you really going to do his in a game?

I'm still not convinced that casting spirit magic costs anything.

I feel that spirit magic use has many real world examples - the person going round to ask for a light for their cigarette - have you got a light? yes that will be the cost of a box of matches divided by the number of matches. you cut your finger, has anyone got a plaster, have you got some tape to fix this box. Most of this is 1 or 2 magic points that most will get back in an hour or so. Higher cost stuff that's stackable is not as common and so is the realm of specialists - heal 6 for example, most healers will have this at a minimum to eventually put into a matrix. Dispelling big magics is the realm of magical specialists and your temple is the first call for this.

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Adventures and their ilk are an anomaly, your average farmer, labourer would only know those magics related to their profession. I'd imagine that there is a micro economy in casting Spirit Magic. Even if others in the local area know other spells, community conscience would dictate payments of some sort, either barter, coin of some LET scheme. It has often been said that Chalanna Arroy demand payments for even the simplest services. There is also the whole 'balance of payment' concept with magic, someone who excessively draws on spirit magic without some kind of reparations may attract the ire of the spirit world (but in this YGWV).

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

This an interesting one and for me would depend on who or what the target was. However it depends on what you mean by long lasting? A day long spell is intensity 9, a week is 12 and a season is 15 (the sorcerer in my game can cast seasonal magic). A dispel magic 9 or even 15 is going to be a hard one to find. Take it to your temple and get Dismiss Magic cast, it only has to overcome the Strength of the the spell not the total intensity.

 

 

As far as I have understood, you need only to beat the strength, not the whole intensity. Points used for duration or range does not count. At least, it was this in RQIII. And a Strength 1 Duration 15 spell can occur. For instance, cast Logician 1 for 1 season on somebody helps him with +10% on all lores ... and forbids him all augments for 1 season. It reminds me on casting fanaticism on a foe before he can cast all his spell: That meant no protection, no fireblade, no bladesharp, ...

 

Other than the obvious problem of finding someone who knows the summon to match your control, this is one of the best adventure hooks I can imagine. Are you really going to do his in a game?

I am not doing anything, because I was not the OP, nor a GM, but I can see this occurring: My character is a sorceror, and I may find myself having a dominate spell without having learned the corresponding summon. In that case, it CAN occur, and I easily see my GM using the opportunity.

 

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54 minutes ago, Kloster said:

As far as I have understood, you need only to beat the strength, not the whole intensity. Points used for duration or range does not count. At least, it was this in RQIII. And a Strength 1 Duration 15 spell can occur. For instance, cast Logician 1 for 1 season on somebody helps him with +10% on all lores ... and forbids him all augments for 1 season. It reminds me on casting fanaticism on a foe before he can cast all his spell: That meant no protection, no fireblade, no bladesharp, ...

 

My mistake, whole intensity has to be countered, so my examples are bad.

Kloster

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