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Pygmy Stats?


Lord High Munchkin

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6 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

However, if one wants to roll up "normal" pygmies there are still no guidelines.

Is there some reason you don't want to use the ImpalaRider stats?

Looks like SIZ of 2d6+4=6-16 (vs normal 2d6+6=8-18) for "pygmy" races.  You could always HR that down to 2d4+4=6-12, or whatever, if RAW seems too big for your table's sensibilities...

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3 hours ago, g33k said:

Is there some reason you don't want to use the ImpalaRider stats?

Looks like SIZ of 2d6+4=6-16 (vs normal 2d6+6=8-18) for "pygmy" races.  You could always HR that down to 2d4+4=6-12, or whatever, if RAW seems too big for your table's sensibilities...

It's really that it's not very compatible with the GtG, which is the "ultimate reference".

One basic premise of RuneQuest has always been that what stands for PCs holds for NPCs (as it says on p. 6 of the Bestiary: "Monsters get experience rolls too!"), and if PC Impala Riders can be rolled up at 6'3" (or 6'4" with Air rune) that sort-of flies in the face of the info on page 26 of the GtG. The average Impala Rider as written in RQG is still 5'6"-5'7" at SIZ 11 (more than a half foot taller than the GtG says is typical upper limit).

I don't really buy the "exceptionality of PCs" in this case - can a maximum hight 4'8" tall Impala woman even carry a giant soon-to-be 6'4" child? Sounds chaotic.

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3 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

can a maximum hight 4'8" tall Impala woman even carry a giant soon-to-be 6'4" child? Sounds chaotic.

In our world birth size of the baby is determined by the woman's genes, although there are clearly borderline cases where mother and baby survive without surgery. In my Glorantha its not a problem.

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3 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

One basic premise of RuneQuest has always been that what stands for PCs holds for NPCs (as it says on p. 6 of the Bestiary: "Monsters get experience rolls too!"),

The Adventurer chapter doesn't mention NPCs, neither does the whole Core book. Perhaps in the upcoming Gamemaster book. We don't have guidelines for NPCs yet.

3 hours ago, Lord High Munchkin said:

and if PC Impala Riders can be rolled up at 6'3" (or 6'4" with Air rune) that sort-of flies in the face of the info on page 26 of the GtG. The average Impala Rider as written in RQG is still 5'6"-5'7" at SIZ 11 (more than a half foot taller than the GtG says is typical upper limit).

SIZ in RQG is specifically mass, Page 51:

Quote

 

SIZ measures the mass of your adventurer.

[...]

The Adventurer Sizes table (page 52) provides approximate values for height and weight for a humanoid adventurer, but are not intended to be restrictive.

 

Page 52

Quote

These are suggested ranges. You can define your adventurer’s actual height and/or weight higher or lower than these ranges, though generally increasing one should result in a corresponding decrease of the other.

Impala riders are clearly small but heavily muscled people.

Personally I don't have a problem with this as it says suggested. SIZ and height are clearly not a fixed correlation. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/30/2018 at 7:07 AM, Atgxtg said:

Now in real life muscle mass is somewhat linked to overall mass. Or, basically you ca'tn have 100 pounds of muscle if you only weight 70 pounds. It's a square cube relationship between strength and mass,  which would be about a two-thirds  relationship in RQ and related games. So if Pygmies were about 5 points lighter in SIZ terms than the RQ average man, they would probably average about 3 points lower STR than an average man. So probably about a 2D4+3 STR.

Now RQ has species such as Ducks who are smaller and not as strong as humans. SO we could compare these stats to theirs.

Yeah, at some point I thought about this too, and made the following rule for humans: STR = ((the original STR roll + SIZ * 2) / 3) - 2 rounded up.

Eg.

STR roll 10 and SIZ 18: STR = ((10 + 18 * 2) / 3) - 2 = 14

STR roll 3 and SIZ 18: STR = ((3 + 18 * 2) / 3) - 2 = 11

STR roll 18 and SIZ 8: STR = ((18 + 8 * 2) / 3) - 2 = 10

STR roll 18 and SIZ 13: STR = ((18 + 13 * 2) / 3) - 2 = 13

STR roll 10 and SIZ 13: STR = ((10 + 13 * 2) / 3) - 2 = 10

The rule can be modified for other species too.

Edited by Brootse
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For human size characters, another way to think it would be to have a formula that moves SIZe (=body mass) when STRength changes to much. I think of 1 SIZ per 3 STR change (plus or minus). At character creation, that would mean adding or removing SIZ if too different from STR. The same could be done for CON (as linked to hit points, not resistance to illness.

Kloster

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Since some people want to go down this path , here is the real world math. Don't say I didn't warn you....

In the real world the relationship between Mass and STR is a cube-square relationship. Now since, SIZ (and STR) in most BRP games  are on a logarithmic scale this means that there is a 3/2 relationship in the changes between SIZ and STR.

That means if you had some sort of growth ray, or shrinking ray, that for every 3 points that you change SIZ, STR would be changed 2 points in the same direction.This is the reason why smaller creatures can be so strong relative to their SIZ and also why certain types of creatures can only grow so big before they lack the Strength (muscular or material) to function. One reason why fantasy creatures such as dragons and giants "work" in BRP is that they are much stronger than they  should be for their SIZ. At least that's true for Giants, as they are big humans. 

Since different creatures have different percentages of muscle mass, and body shapes that lever that muscle mass differently, you can have different STR values for creatures of the same SIZ. Also, since there is variation among creatures of the same type,STR can vary somewhat from one individual to another. 

But overall, this works out to STR , on average, being around 2/3rd SIZ plus a modifier. For humans about 2/3 STR +2. But due to variations among individuals we probably want to random this a bit more. 

 

Oh, BTW, a simple practical application of this is that it makes it possible to come up with game stats for a creature by taking the stats for something similar and scaling up SIZ and the other Stats to match.

For example, let's say I'm running RQ3 and I want, for who know what fiendish reason, stats for a Megalodon. Now looking up information of Mega I note thta the most common estimation of maximum length was 18m, or about 3 times the length of a White Shark. Now if we assume that a mega is 3 times as wide and tall as a White Shark as well as 3 times a long, we would expect it to weight 27 times as much. This is about 39 SIZ points higher. So if we took the Large Shark stats from RQ3 and raised the average SIZ by 39 points, we'd have the right SIZ. Then if we raised STR by 2/3rd of that (26 points), and then raise CON by the same amount, POW seems to go up at about half of SIZ (+20, and probably so they aren't too vulnerable to magic), and  maybe shave a point off of DEX, and we'd have a pretty solid base for a Mega. Armor is usually tied to db in RQ3, and is 2.5xdb for a shark, so we'd want to increase the armor based on the new damage bonus +(9D6, I think) so 23 armor.

Now the really nice thing about the former paragraph is that it can be automated to get game stats for a range of similar creatures of different SIZ.

 

Edited by Atgxtg
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Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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