Jump to content
Tywyll

Not sure how I feel...

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Except there is. In RQ2/3, I can go to a Temple at any time and repray Rune Magic. In RQG, I have to wait until a Holy Day. That is a massive change, in my opinion. I would allow a Priest/Lord to repray at any time.

 

But you could only get back one point a day.  Some years ago you and I had a conversation about could you regain Rune spells with a worship spell out in the wilderness.  We both played that you could, just not sure that was correct by the rules.  And I am not going to bring that up to my group yet, give them a chance to ask the question.  Which is probably poor GMing on my part, the Characters certainly know the answer even if the players dont.   But I like to see them figure things out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To the OP.  I am more or less incapable of playing any one version of RQ.  So I keep what I like discard what I dont.  But I always play it a little to see if maybe I am missing something.  One thing I love about the new rules is that there is  sense of belonging to a world.  My players actually do things for the clan because that is what the characters would do.  Is it mechanically less advantageous than older editions?  Could be, but so far they dont care.  

 

That for me is the bottom line question for any game.  Do my players enjoy it.  If yes then play as is.  If no, can we fix it, or do we play something else.  Last game instead of a heap of treasure, my players won the ride to make their own steading.  One of my players is a long time BRP fan, particularly CoC.  He has never been a big RQ fan because he is not a Glorantha fan.  Now, due to the clan and other ties in the game, he is becoming a big fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jeff said:

You need that temporal connection to the god to replenish your Rune magic. It isn't like doing a bunch of Hail Mary Mother of Gods and counting rosary beads.

It probably is, actually -- but I think Christianity in RQG terms would probably be best described by some non-extant Mysticism rules, and would be quite poorly depicted through Rune Magic (God's Runes : All of Them).

If I were to make a technical rules point about this though, in the Judaism of Antiquity the Temple was somewhere, whereas in Christianity the Temple is Everywhere.

Jews had to visit the Godhead at the Temple (or at the Ark in the Tabernacle) ; Christians do not (though the practice remains in pilgrimages, and particularly foot pilgrimages).

Some Religions like Christianity and Buddhism might exist in Fourth Age Glorantha, but unless and until they do, Jeff is 100% right -- you need to visit the Godhead at the Temple.

Edited by Julian Lord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And a priest at a holy site with a Worship spell can lead a worship service to regain those points anytime.

They can? I didn't read it that way. There's an entry in the Worship modifier table for 'not even in a shrine', but... [goes away and has another read]...

Oh my! I read that wrong. Minor Holy days give +10 to Worship, so it's not unreasonable to assume 'not Holy days at all' just don't give a bonus...

But then again, nowhere does it mention how many Rune Points you'd get back on a less-than-Minor Holy day... You could assume  it's 1d6 (d6+1 for Runemasters), but wouldn't it be less than that?

Worth pointing out that most minor Cults are Associated with a Major Cults, and Major Cults often have Minor Holy Days every week that you can glom onto and get a d6 RP back, even if you can't rustle up a Sanctify spell of your own.

 

Edit: On reading further in the thread, seems I was right that not mentioning how many points you get on a not-a-holy-day meant it was zero. Cool. Point about Associated Cults still stands though.

Edited by womble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Kloster said:

about the time and cost in RQIII Jajagappa was speaking about. I can' think a way to go to 1000 or 2000 L, even for high stats.

I was referencing RQ2, not RQ3.  I haven't looked at the RQ3 books in years.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jeff said:

The idea that Gloranthan characters are going to spend 7+ hours a day doing strength training is just not realistic to me and certainly makes no sense as a rules default.

It is the economy that confuses me. Training is already incredibly expensive - it costs 500 L for an attribute training attempt, which requires 2 seasons. So training costs more than the living expenses of most nobles (200L)!  So the Gloranthan equivalent of gym instructors are already incredibly wealthy - and now you tell me they don't even have to work full time! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I was referencing RQ2, not RQ3.  I haven't looked at the RQ3 books in years.

Understood. I haven't checked RQII. Thanks.

Kloster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

p.415: "If more than one adventure occurs during a season, the gamemaster may allow experience rolls after each adventure."

Okay, glad that's in there.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

Ok, see where you're coming from on that one.  

More realistically now 16 weeks (2 seasons) with a cost of 500L vs. 10 weeks at a cost of 1000L (for STR/DEX) or 2000L (for CON). [Yes it can be compressed but if you've got other community duties, 8 hours a day training is just not realistic.]

Actually not really. 8 hour clan duties, 8 hours training, 8 hours sleeping, rough but doable for a hardened individual.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

Why?  It never did before.  RQ2 was: At the end of the scenario, when the character can take a week to relax and meditate upon his experience, there is a chance he will learn from what happened to him.  Might depend on your definition of scenario, but scenario and session are equivalent in my mind.

You'd not finish something like Snakepipe hollow in a single session, but even if you did, the ingame time would probably cover multiple weeks of delving, retreating to recover, returning, etc. It's not like a 3rd Edition DND one and done kind of scenario. So yeah, I'd expect it to result in multiple experience checks. Not just one for the entire season.

But really, you could look at it as a season spent at war...do you only have one chance at improvement? You don't learn more than that when your life is on the line constantly for weeks? I find that hard to believe.

It also makes the Hero characters in the Glorantha Lore further removed from what players can achieve...no one can rise to the heights of the NPCs by following the rules. That's a problem for me.

On 1/5/2019 at 9:33 PM, jajagappa said:

RQG p.185 references "Weekly or other minor holy day" and p.288 notes "The High Holy Day and seasonal holy days are listed." I.e. minor and weekly holy days exist but are not described.

 

Yeah, I reread that last night. But that leaves a big blank. When the heck are these holy days? How often? Are they weekly? What day? Something so tied to a calendar really needs to be more detailed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/5/2019 at 11:49 PM, Joerg said:

Would you be happier if a successful dodge against a special attack downgrades the damage of that attack to that of a normal success (and likewise special dodge vs critical attack)?

Taking a hit is going to hurt. Succcessfully parrying an overwhelmingly strong hit may still knock you around the room, even if the damage reduction from the parrying weapon and the body armor reduces that hit to a flesh wound. Successfully dodging it means no damage.

Yes, it's a gamble. Dodging at low skill levels should only be done against attacks with survivable damage. When facing a 4 meter giant with a tree bole as a club, parrying is the worse gamble if both parry and dodge are in the 60% range.

Yeah, I would be happier if the dodge reduced the hit by equal 'success level'. Success would reduce an attack by 1 grade, a special success by 2, a crit by 3. That's how its done in later editions of the system, and is the only way to make Dodge viable (without a mechanic to somehow have Dodge reduce damage inflicted to represent moving partially out of the way).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2019 at 12:26 AM, Thyrwyn said:

Dodge is not a “trap”, since it’s effect is superior to a Parry. With Parry, damage is always a factor, and you put not only yourself, but your weapon at risk. Parry costs resources. Always 

Dodge, when successful, negates all damage. 

If A successful Dodge always reduced the success level of the attack, then it would be probable for a being with a high Dodge and enough armor or magic to be effectively invulnerable. Dodge would become the must have skill at higher “levels”. 

That didn't seem to be a problem in later editions of d100, so I don't agree that that follows. Dodge is reduced by your encumbrance, making high dodge and high armor difficult. Parry doesn't always cost resources, only if the attack scores more damage than the weapon/shield possess. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Actually not really. 8 hour clan duties, 8 hours training, 8 hours sleeping, rough but doable for a hardened individual.

So, where do you fit in your 8 hours family ?

It's always possible of course to create a PC as a workaholic, but it would be unreasonable to view such behaviour as being consequence-free ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2019 at 11:36 AM, MOB said:

On the other hand, in RQG the RP/L (and initiate) are getting Rune Points back rather than specific Rune Spells they sacrificed for. Far more flexible and useful and MGF than how it works in RQ 2/3, in my opinion.

And it makes magical/mythic resonant sense to me that a RL/P needs to wait for the right day of their deity to replenish. 

 

So what are those days? I didn't see them in the rulebook. It seems like a pretty important detail to be missing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

So, where do you fit in your 8 hours family ?

It's always possible of course to create a PC as a workaholic, but it would be unreasonable to view such behaviour as being consequence-free ...

8 hour of Clan duty covers family duty...they are the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5) Why go back to FREE Int for Sorcery? Why cripple casters based on a single die roll at the beginning of character creation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tywyll said:

So what are those days? I didn't see them in the rulebook. It seems like a pretty important detail to be missing.

These sorts of things are detailed in long-form cult write-ups, of which no official RQG ones have been released.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/6/2019 at 1:53 PM, Jeff said:

A Gloranthan season is 8 weeks long. It takes two season to train a characteristic. The idea that Gloranthan characters are going to spend 7+ hours a day doing strength training is just not realistic to me and certainly makes no sense as a rules default.

If we want to talk about realism, the idea that characteristics do not improve as a factor of other skill use has always been unrealistic. How did people get stronger in the old days? They did heavy lifting, they learned to fight with weapons (especially heavy ones), they farmed in rough terrain, they were lucky enough to get a high protein diet. I think if we are going to talk realism, we need to accept that 'strength training' is a realtively modern concept. People trained for an activity, and in doing so, became stronger/faster/tougher/etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

8 hour of Clan duty covers family duty...they are the same.

That is IMO a misapprehension -- IRL, people living in conditions similar to Gloranthan Clan life always consider family not just first, but also different from the Community.

Besides, the basic point of contention persists -- you describe the attitude of a rat-racing workaholic.

Probably a good model for a Mostali daily regimen, certainly not for an Orlanthi, intrinsically viewing such rigidity as being alien to his religion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Actually not really. 8 hour clan duties, 8 hours training, 8 hours sleeping, rough but doable for a hardened individual.

Even professional athletes and soldiers-in-training (assisted by modern science for recovery and nutrition) don't, and can't train "strength" for 8 hours a day. They'll do different things over the course of a day's training: agility or endurance (DEX or CON) training, or just skull or skill work, or drill or classroom work. And that sort of training regimen requires a monomanaiacal focus that's pretty much alien to the 'adventurer' mind set (and still doesn't get you 56 hours training a week in one thing

Spend 8 hours in one day hitting the weights, and you'll need a rest the next day, or possibly for the next two or three days, if, indeed you've not done yourself a mischief that lays you up for a month with no possibility of Strength training.

But one of the 'USPs' of RQG is that your adventurer is presumed to have a life outside of adventuring or training for adventuring. Their community and/or job needs attention too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also a matter of it training for 8 hours a day is any more effective than training for four hours a day. After a point it turns into a matter of time. For physical abilities it could be time to put on more mass (SIZ) and muscle (STR), time for the immune system to build up (CON), and so forth. For metnal abilities and skills, it is time to learn what you have studied, and time to let the knowledge sink in and become second nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tywyll said:

If we want to talk about realism, the idea that characteristics do not improve as a factor of other skill use has always been unrealistic. How did people get stronger in the old days? They did heavy lifting, they learned to fight with weapons (especially heavy ones), they farmed in rough terrain, they were lucky enough to get a high protein diet. I think if we are going to talk realism, we need to accept that 'strength training' is a realtively modern concept. People trained for an activity, and in doing so, became stronger/faster/tougher/etc.

Yup, a more realistic take on things would be for check in skills to count in some way towards improve attributes that the skill is based on. So someone who does a lot of sword fighting would, over time, naturally become stronger and quicker. I suppose you could have each checked box count as a certain number of hours of training towards a characteristic, but it probably isn't worth the bookkeeping. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Julian Lord said:

That is IMO a misapprehension -- IRL, people living in conditions similar to Gloranthan Clan life always consider family not just first, but also different from the Community.

Besides, the basic point of contention persists -- you describe the attitude of a rat-racing workaholic.

Probably a good model for a Mostali daily regimen, certainly not for an Orlanthi, intrinsically viewing such rigidity as being alien to his religion.

Once upon a time, Greg and I played around with some models of what percentage of your character's time could and was being spent on various tasks - sleeping, fornicating, family, clan duties, occupation, rituals, meditation, dreaming, etc. It was neat and fun, and totally impractical for game rules.

Needless to say, it left a LOT less than 8 hours a day for training. 

  • Like 4
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Tywyll said:

When the heck are these holy days? How often? Are they weekly? What day? Something so tied to a calendar really needs to be more detailed.

For most it would simply be whatever their primary element is:  Windsday for Orlanth and other Storm gods, Clayday for Ernalda and other Earth deities (e.g. the note on p.291 re: Eiritha "there is time set aside each Clayday for ceremonies by the priestesses" or p.293 re: Ernalda "Every Clayday is a minor holy day for Ernalda"), Fireday for Yelm, etc.  

If the deity is not elementally based then typically Godsday.  As noted on p.139: "Godsday, traditionally used for worship and meditation. Many important holy ceremonies occur on this day."

And on same page, re: Wildday: "The most powerful local deity may be worshiped on this day."  Issaries is one who uses Wildday p.298 "Each Wildday is a holy day and a market day"

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 12:41 PM, womble said:

But then again, nowhere does it mention how many Rune Points you'd get back on a less-than-Minor Holy day... You could assume  it's 1d6 (d6+1 for Runemasters), but wouldn't it be less than that?

Correct, it does not state how many you get.  But since the Worship skill indicates that successful use replenishes Rune Points it will be between 1 and 1d6.  As a GM, if the characters engage in an impromptu Worship at a holy site on a week day not typically/logically associated with the deity, I'd probably say they recover 1 Rune Point.  If they wait for the weekly holy day, which is a Minor Holy Day, then 1d6.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't really care whether 8 hours a day is possible or not. It's just a rule, a bit of maths that bears little actual relation to what is happening in the game world.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Tywyll said:

So what are those days? I didn't see them in the rulebook. It seems like a pretty important detail to be missing.

There's a Gloranthan calendar in the Gamemaster Screen Pack.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, MOB said:

There's a Gloranthan calendar in the Gamemaster Screen Pack.

As I'm not a GM, I have not (and will not) purchase it (it contains scenarii). Is it the same as the one from RQIII 'Gods of Glorantha' (but nicer, of course)?

Kloster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×