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Tywyll

Not sure how I feel...

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48 minutes ago, Larry Lovecraft said:

I could probably look this up on my own, so forgive me, but what time period is Borderlands/Griffin Mountain?

as Drablak pointed out all the RQ2 stuff is 1617-1620. Griffin Mountain however is quite sandboxed so would be most flexible. Borderland, Pavis & Big Rubble all deal with early Lunar occupation of Prax and so would need considerable reworking for RQG timeline (some episodes more so than others). 

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7 hours ago, Larry Lovecraft said:

but what time period is Borderlands/Griffin Mountain?

Raus of Rone came to take his domain in 1615, and the campaign starts in 1616 ST.

7 hours ago, Larry Lovecraft said:

Seeing as how 11L is a "prequel" to the RQG years, I thought going back and playing the years leading up to the 1625 start point would be cool for the group.   

Would you suggest this 'prequel move', or maybe just adapting the Gamemaster's Pack scenarios to the timeline prior to Eleven Lights?  

Yes, I think it would be a cool campaign to run in RQG.  Lots of clan drama and adventures, and leads up to a great heroquest. 

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19 hours ago, womble said:

Personally, I'd run the Red Cow Saga first, if I wanted to have the complete thing. In a lot of ways, it's good for newbies, because it starts very focused on the Clan (and therefore a narrow set of Cults and Culture to try and introduce to Glorantha-newbs.

Exactly my rationale. 

19 hours ago, womble said:

I think this approach would render a lot of the 1625 material somewhat unchallenging, since the characters would be a good way down the road to Herodom by the time the 'default' RQG start date rolls around. 

But I don't think Red Cow as a 'prequel' works, for similar reasons: it starts too early, reaching its peak just before the point where RQG PCs start by default, and if you play with 'fresh out of chargen' characters through the Quickstart, Apple Lane, Cattle Raid etc, your players will be wondering, by the time they get back there after Dangerford, why they had such troubles...

I would make them run their characters children or descendants at that point, probably, but I think you may be right. 

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20 hours ago, womble said:

I think this approach would render a lot of the 1625 material somewhat unchallenging, since the characters would be a good way down the road to Herodom by the time the 'default' RQG start date rolls around.

Yes I agree. I'd make them roll up new adventurers for that.

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2 hours ago, Larry Lovecraft said:

I would make them run their characters children or descendants at that point, probably, but I think you may be right. 

Starting with 'new adults' in '16 won't really give enough headroom for children of those characters by '25... Even if you start as 'established parent 21-y-o' in 16, your children won't be of an age to be tangling with the antagonists so far offered, 9 years later. You could jigger the dates of those episodes later I guess; how much later would depend on how fast your first generation got with the procreating... :) A perennial issue in Pendragon games is the 'first generation' struggling to find wives and get heirs in time for their retirement at a convenient age for the second generation to be active 'when it's meant to be' in the Grand Campaign. An additional issue that you might encounter in RQ (if there are any Earth Goddess Initiates about) is the sheer superiority of their children... with lots of Rune Points, Bless Pregnancy can generate pretty capable stat sets, and the cap on RP means there may be a glut of spare POW gains looking for homes in Enchantments.

 

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30 minutes ago, womble said:

Starting with 'new adults' in '16 won't really give enough headroom for children of those characters by '25... Even if you start as 'established parent 21-y-o' in 16, your children won't be of an age to be tangling with the antagonists so far offered, 9 years later. You could jigger the dates of those episodes later I guess; how much later would depend on how fast your first generation got with the procreating... :) A perennial issue in Pendragon games is the 'first generation' struggling to find wives and get heirs in time for their retirement at a convenient age for the second generation to be active 'when it's meant to be' in the Grand Campaign. An additional issue that you might encounter in RQ (if there are any Earth Goddess Initiates about) is the sheer superiority of their children... with lots of Rune Points, Bless Pregnancy can generate pretty capable stat sets, and the cap on RP means there may be a glut of spare POW gains looking for homes in Enchantments.

 

Ahhhh right that math doesn't quite work, does it? Perhaps making them just younger tribe members (or just non-Sartars) is a better move. 

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On 1/7/2019 at 5:06 PM, Julian Lord said:

These sorts of things are detailed in long-form cult write-ups, of which no official RQG ones have been released.

That's a pretty important thing to leave off...

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3 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

That's a pretty important thing to leave off...

I just checked and holy days are in the core rulebook's write-ups as well, in the cults chapter.

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On 1/7/2019 at 5:16 PM, Julian Lord said:

That is IMO a misapprehension -- IRL, people living in conditions similar to Gloranthan Clan life always consider family not just first, but also different from the Community.

Besides, the basic point of contention persists -- you describe the attitude of a rat-racing workaholic.

Probably a good model for a Mostali daily regimen, certainly not for an Orlanthi, intrinsically viewing such rigidity as being alien to his religion.

I think a workaholic idea would be the thought that their duties require 8 hours each day. Historical evidence pretty much negates the idea that peasants and farmers worked as many hours a day as modern people do. 

Community is typically made up of family, cousins, uncles, nephews, aunts, neices, siblings. 

But again, its also a falacious idea to assume that ancient world cultures performed 'strength training' or 'endurance training'. They just worked hard and har, grueling physical tasks (skills) and became better at them and that increased their attributes. 

But as to what is or isn't typical, we aren't talking about Farmers here, we are talking about special individuals, player characters, not run of the mill individuals. It takes someone pretty dedicated or desperate to do the things that a PC does.

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On 1/7/2019 at 7:24 PM, womble said:

Even professional athletes and soldiers-in-training (assisted by modern science for recovery and nutrition) don't, and can't train "strength" for 8 hours a day. They'll do different things over the course of a day's training: agility or endurance (DEX or CON) training, or just skull or skill work, or drill or classroom work. And that sort of training regimen requires a monomanaiacal focus that's pretty much alien to the 'adventurer' mind set (and still doesn't get you 56 hours training a week in one thing

I strongly disagree. It takes a crazy focus to become an adventurer rather than opposite.

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On 1/7/2019 at 7:40 PM, Atgxtg said:

Yup, a more realistic take on things would be for check in skills to count in some way towards improve attributes that the skill is based on. So someone who does a lot of sword fighting would, over time, naturally become stronger and quicker. I suppose you could have each checked box count as a certain number of hours of training towards a characteristic, but it probably isn't worth the bookkeeping. 

Oh, I don't know. I think if you told a player to keep track of X and it means eventual character improvement and they will do it.

Also, I think an easier way would simply to increase a stat whenever a skill hits 75% or 90%. Easy peasy.

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1 hour ago, Tywyll said:

Community is typically made up of family, cousins, uncles, nephews, aunts, neices, siblings. 

Community extends far beyond those limits, it's everyone in your public, local life who considers you as "one of us"

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3 hours ago, womble said:

Starting with 'new adults' in '16 won't really give enough headroom for children of those characters by '25... Even if you start as 'established parent 21-y-o' in 16, your children won't be of an age to be tangling with the antagonists so far offered, 9 years later. You could jigger the dates of those episodes later I guess; how much later would depend on how fast your first generation got with the procreating... :) A perennial issue in Pendragon games is the 'first generation' struggling to find wives and get heirs in time for their retirement at a convenient age for the second generation to be active 'when it's meant to be' in the Grand Campaign. An additional issue that you might encounter in RQ (if there are any Earth Goddess Initiates about) is the sheer superiority of their children... with lots of Rune Points, Bless Pregnancy can generate pretty capable stat sets, and the cap on RP means there may be a glut of spare POW gains looking for homes in Enchantments.

 

Take a page from Traveller — heroes are retired old farts in their late 40s and 50s.  Besides, don’t nubile young things go for accomplished older adventurers?  😉😄

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3 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Oh, I don't know. I think if you told a player to keep track of X and it means eventual character improvement and they will do it.

Sure they will, you can bet on it. But when they have to track more and more things it starts to become a pain. For example,in my last Pendragon campaign, we used the Book of the Manor to manage the various estates that the characters acquired.Now in that supplement you can make various improvements to their lands, and hire people, and this can increase the characters income, glory, and even give skill checks and other benefits. But, eventually, the bookkeeping got excessive, and we were starting to spend almost as much time managing the lands as we did adventuring. 

3 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Also, I think an easier way would simply to increase a stat whenever a skill hits 75% or 90%. Easy peasy.

Much easier to track. But also easy to exploit. I think there would have to be limit on just how many points of STR or DEX someone can get that way. Especially if the similar weapon rule is in use. 

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5 hours ago, Tywyll said:

I strongly disagree. It takes a crazy focus to become an adventurer rather than opposite.

[shrug] Adventurers are dilettantes who have quit (or been shorn of) their societal obligations, leaving them free to pursue their own goals, which largely involve drinking the proceeds of their last sojourn into The Rubble while sniffing around for some clues as to their next visit. Maybe they have the coin to pay this month's trainer's fees, maybe they don't. Maybe they can be bothered to get out of bed before noon, maybe they can't.

The non-adventuring life is a combination of boring and dangerous hard work, whereas the life of an adventurer has moments of adrenaline-fuelled excitement and is also dangerous, and has boring interstices. But at least there's some excitement. Focus is absolutely not a requirement to become an adventurer. Sure, like any 'trade' someone who's focused will be better at it (and probably survive longer), but it's no requirement.

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1 minute ago, womble said:

Focus is absolutely not a requirement to become an adventurer.

Case in point, my players.

Edited by Richard S.
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7 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Oh, I don't know. I think if you told a player to keep track of X and it means eventual character improvement and they will do it.

Also, I think an easier way would simply to increase a stat whenever a skill hits 75% or 90%. Easy peasy.

I would have my players put an Experience Point/Dot after each physical Attribute (STR, DEX, CON) every game session.  Once they had acquired 10 EXP, I'd allow them to trade those points in for a chance to improve that stat.  They'd roll a 1D20 (for a human, I used different die sizes for non-humans) and attempt to roll OVER their current Attribute.  If they succeeded, that Attribute would increase by one point.  Successful or not, the 10 EXP were used and lost.  This provided a reasonable balance between allowing weak Attributes to increase and limiting the chance for higher Attributes to increase without imposing an arbitrary rule on the improvement of those high-level Attributes.

Of course, I allowed Attribute improvement (including mental ones) because I used an Aging Chart that required the players to make "Aging Saves" against their Attributes (using the same Roll-Over Mechanic) once they hit 40 (for a human) and every 5 years afterward.  I also allowed disease and certain poisons or magic abilities to "drain" Attributes during play.  The Vampire would drain both CON and STR with their bite while the Wraith could age you 1D6 years with its touch.  Thus I had Attributes in a minor state of "flux" during play. 

Edited by olskool
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On 1/8/2019 at 3:25 AM, MOB said:

There's a Gloranthan calendar in the Gamemaster Screen Pack.

Does it have the lesser holy days of all the gods? If so, seems like something that should be player facing...possibly a PDF on the website?

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10 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Does it have the lesser holy days of all the gods? If so, seems like something that should be player facing...possibly a PDF on the website?

It only goes as far as the seasonal Holy Days (of all the Gods in the Core book, plus a few). I agree that it's a player-facing aid. I've printed 'em at A3 size to use as calendar/diaries for my game.

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On 1/14/2019 at 6:32 AM, womble said:

It only goes as far as the seasonal Holy Days (of all the Gods in the Core book, plus a few). I agree that it's a player-facing aid. I've printed 'em at A3 size to use as calendar/diaries for my game.

Which goes back to my original complaint of only getting Rune Points back by the season. Sigh...

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On 1/11/2019 at 10:55 PM, womble said:

[shrug] Adventurers are dilettantes who have quit (or been shorn of) their societal obligations, leaving them free to pursue their own goals, which largely involve drinking the proceeds of their last sojourn into The Rubble while sniffing around for some clues as to their next visit. Maybe they have the coin to pay this month's trainer's fees, maybe they don't. Maybe they can be bothered to get out of bed before noon, maybe they can't.

The non-adventuring life is a combination of boring and dangerous hard work, whereas the life of an adventurer has moments of adrenaline-fuelled excitement and is also dangerous, and has boring interstices. But at least there's some excitement. Focus is absolutely not a requirement to become an adventurer. Sure, like any 'trade' someone who's focused will be better at it (and probably survive longer), but it's no requirement.

Not adventurers who survive. Also I suppose it depends on your inspiration. If you view them as all Grey Mouser types, then fine. But even Conan, who falls into the same behaviour you describe above, was also dedicated to self-mastery (if you consider his various skills and capabililties, ignoring his Gary Stuness that is).

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On 1/8/2019 at 1:44 PM, womble said:

They are. See the Cult descriptions in the Rune Cults chapter.

If you want to be 'precise'.

 

True, but lesser (non-seasonal) holy days aren't really mentioned.

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6 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Which goes back to my original complaint of only getting Rune Points back by the season. Sigh...

Well just house-rule it then, into something comfortable for you !!

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Depending on your cult you've already got plenty of opportunities for regaining Rune Points. An Orlanthi or a member of one of the other Major Cults can basically get 1d6 RP back twice a week at minimum every week of the Gloranthan year. I think that is pretty solid. That requires no investment but magic points for worshipping and can be done by a new character. An invested adventurer could have a buttload of Votive Images and other such things guaranteeing their Rune Points every season without any work. 

 

We've been running Eleven Lights with RQG basically RAW and seen great success. At least players can use ANY spells before becoming Priests or Runelords in RQG versus RQ2/3

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7 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Which goes back to my original complaint of only getting Rune Points back by the season. Sigh...

What would you suggest? To me, it makes sense that you get them back on holy days, and holy days only happen once a season. You could go back to the way RQ3 did it, and you'd get them back every never ever.

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