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Tupper

Death by a thousand cuts

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I've been trying to wrap my head around the rules for wounds in RQG.  My confusion stems from whether "major" effects (going into shock or being maimed) can be achieved by many small wounds, or if they have to be done by one big wound.  Rather than clog up the official answers list, I thought I'd try asking the question of the fine folks on the forum first! :)

The core book reads (under "Damage equals or exceeds double the location's hit points"): "An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg *from a single blow* ... However an adventurer so damaged *from a single blow* is functionally incapacitated: they can no longer fight until healed and are in shock" (emphasis mine).   Analogously, under "Damage equal or exceeds triple the location's hit points" reads "A limb hit for three times more points than it can take *in a single blow* is severed or irrevocably maimed" (again, emphasis mine).  Do these effects only happen if a *single blow* caused double/triple the target's limb's hit points, or can they happen cumulatively?  My naive read of the rules was that these results only happen if they're from one big hit, but Jason Durall's answers from last October seem to suggest that cumulative damage can yield shock or maiming.  

To make my confusion concrete, here is an example that illustrates my three conundrums.  I have 18 total hit points, giving me 5 in each arm.   I get hit twice in the left arm, first for 5 points, and then for 10 points.  

1.  When I take the second hit, is the damage reduced to 5 points, since my arm can only take 10 points (5 x 2) total, or do the 10 points still go to the arm, since they do not (as a single blow) exceed twice my hit points?

2.  If the answer to question 1 is that I've taken 15 points of damage to my arm, is it now maimed, because it has taken 3 times its total hit points (10+5=15)?  Or is it not maimed because it didn't take 15 points in a *single blow*.

Now suppose I got hit twice in the left arm, first for 5 points, and then for 5 points again (there's no ambiguity here: I've taken 10 points of damage to the arm).

3.  When I take the second hit, am I in shock?  I have taken 10 points to my arm (twice its capacity), but it was not from a single blow.  Note that I've still got 8 total hit points left, so I'm nowhere near unconsciousness based on total damage.

Thanking you all in advance!

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4 hours ago, Tupper said:

The core book reads (under "Damage equals or exceeds double the location's hit points"): "An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg *from a single blow* ... However an adventurer so damaged *from a single blow* is functionally incapacitated: they can no longer fight until healed and are in shock" (emphasis mine).

The text is lifted straight from RQ2, I think RQ3 eliminated this distinction and an accumulation of hits was the same as a single blow. Personally I will ignore the "from a single blow" part entirely.

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I think that the damage section suffers a little by not using specific terms for specific effects. There are three way's a character or limb can become incapacitated. The first is when a limb loses all its HP that limb is incapacitated, be it form one or many wounds. Second: Loses 2x limb HP incapacitates if from a single wound.  Third: A character can become incapacitated from Slashing weapons that score a special hit and equals or exceed that limbs HP. The way I play limb damage is that x2 HP is Max HP it can pass on to the total, regardless of how many actual HP it actually has. So a 5HP arm will always pass through up to 10 HP damage regardless of its current HP.

To run through your example:

1st hit: 5 damage to arm, arm is useless and 0 hp. Total HP 18-5 = 13

2nd hit: 10 damage to arm, arm is -5 HP. Total HP 13-10 - 3, Character is in shock and incapacitated as damage came from one hit

alternate example:

1st hit: 5 damage to arm, arm is useless and 0 hp. Total HP 18-5 = 13

2nd hit: 8 damage to arm, arm is useless and -5 hp. total HP 13-8 = 5, character still able to act

3rd hit: 2 damage to arm, arm still -5. Total HP 5-2 = 3, character still able to act

another example:

1st hit: 25 damage to arm, arm is maimed, and -5 HP, total HP is 18-10 = 8, but character is in shock and incapacitated as it came from a one hit,

Lastly:

1st hit: Special Slash of 6 damage. Arm is -1 and useless. Total HP = 18-6=12 Character must make a (CON-6)*5 roll or become incapacitated

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Thanks for the answers!   Psullie's answer sounds like how I read the rulebook, whereas Sotakss' and PhilHibbs' sound like how I read Jason Durall's answers.  I have a feeling that this is an RQ2 vs RQ3 thing (as PhilHibbs suggests).

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I suppose it's a matter of taste and preference.

If you like the idea that every wound causes blood loss and the cumulative effect can cause problems, then use the death by a thousand cuts approach.

If you like the 80s Action Hero approach where Arnie/Sly/Brucie just laugh off flesh wounds, then go for the One Hit approach.

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On 1/9/2019 at 9:33 AM, Tupper said:

I've been trying to wrap my head around the rules for wounds in RQG.  My confusion stems from whether "major" effects (going into shock or being maimed) can be achieved by many small wounds, or if they have to be done by one big wound.  Rather than clog up the official answers list, I thought I'd try asking the question of the fine folks on the forum first! :)

The core book reads (under "Damage equals or exceeds double the location's hit points"): "An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg *from a single blow* ... However an adventurer so damaged *from a single blow* is functionally incapacitated: they can no longer fight until healed and are in shock" (emphasis mine).   Analogously, under "Damage equal or exceeds triple the location's hit points" reads "A limb hit for three times more points than it can take *in a single blow* is severed or irrevocably maimed" (again, emphasis mine).  Do these effects only happen if a *single blow* caused double/triple the target's limb's hit points, or can they happen cumulatively?  My naive read of the rules was that these results only happen if they're from one big hit, but Jason Durall's answers from last October seem to suggest that cumulative damage can yield shock or maiming.  

To make my confusion concrete, here is an example that illustrates my three conundrums.  I have 18 total hit points, giving me 5 in each arm.   I get hit twice in the left arm, first for 5 points, and then for 10 points.  

1.  When I take the second hit, is the damage reduced to 5 points, since my arm can only take 10 points (5 x 2) total, or do the 10 points still go to the arm, since they do not (as a single blow) exceed twice my hit points?

2.  If the answer to question 1 is that I've taken 15 points of damage to my arm, is it now maimed, because it has taken 3 times its total hit points (10+5=15)?  Or is it not maimed because it didn't take 15 points in a *single blow*.

Now suppose I got hit twice in the left arm, first for 5 points, and then for 5 points again (there's no ambiguity here: I've taken 10 points of damage to the arm).

3.  When I take the second hit, am I in shock?  I have taken 10 points to my arm (twice its capacity), but it was not from a single blow.  Note that I've still got 8 total hit points left, so I'm nowhere near unconsciousness based on total damage.

Thanking you all in advance!

Heres my take reading RQG rules as written:

1. Your arm takes another 5 pts of damage bringing it to its x 2 damage limit of -5 (minus 5). However remaining damage will still go to Total Hit Points (limited by x2 damage threshold in a single blow) . So Total Hit Points are reduced by the full 10 hit points with the second blow. I think the examples are clear on this.

Edit: Importantly, as well as what I've mentioned above the second hit was a big x2 damage to the limb in a single blow, which brings into affect *functionally incapacitated*

2. It is not maimed or severed. Maimed or severed (x3) only happens through damage received from a single blow, not cumulative. However as I pointed out above, the second blow was a big x2 the location HP in a single blow, so the player becomes *functionally incapacitated*.

3. As written it does say x2 damage will  *functionally incapacitate* a character only if received through through a *single blow*. If its a result of two separate hits as in your example then it would read that the character is not *functionally incapacitated*, but will still be suffering from the effects of Damage Equal to or More than the Locations Hit Points. In other words a useless limb.  - Note though that this is only the case with limbs. Head, chest, and Abdomen will suffer the x2 effect through cumulative blows, not just a single blow.

 

As a side note RQ3 did have the cumulative hits leading to maimed, and a single blow to severed, but that was at the x2 threshold (not x3 as in RQG).

 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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On 1/9/2019 at 3:39 PM, Psullie said:

I think that the damage section suffers a little by not using specific terms for specific effects. There are three way's a character or limb can become incapacitated. The first is when a limb loses all its HP that limb is incapacitated, be it form one or many wounds. Second: Loses 2x limb HP incapacitates if from a single wound.  Third: A character can become incapacitated from Slashing weapons that score a special hit and equals or exceed that limbs HP. The way I play limb damage is that x2 HP is Max HP it can pass on to the total, regardless of how many actual HP it actually has. So a 5HP arm will always pass through up to 10 HP damage regardless of its current HP.

 To run through your example:

1st hit: 5 damage to arm, arm is useless and 0 hp. Total HP 18-5 = 13

2nd hit: 10 damage to arm, arm is -5 HP. Total HP 13-10 - 3, Character is in shock and incapacitated as damage came from one hit

alternate example:

1st hit: 5 damage to arm, arm is useless and 0 hp. Total HP 18-5 = 13

2nd hit: 8 damage to arm, arm is useless and -5 hp. total HP 13-8 = 5, character still able to act

3rd hit: 2 damage to arm, arm still -5. Total HP 5-2 = 3, character still able to act

another example:

1st hit: 25 damage to arm, arm is maimed, and -5 HP, total HP is 18-10 = 8, but character is in shock and incapacitated as it came from a one hit,

Lastly:

1st hit: Special Slash of 6 damage. Arm is -1 and useless. Total HP = 18-6=12 Character must make a (CON-6)*5 roll or become incapacitated

Yes I agree with this, the examples seem right to me.  Although i think there is an important  distinction you've missed out in the first paragraph regarding definition of incapacitation (though not in the example)  - The definition of *functionally incapacitated*  (x2 dam in a single hit) refers to the adventurer ( not just the limb) being functionally incapacitated. This is different from Damage equal to or more than Locations Hit points, which results in a useless limb, but importantly the adventurer is still able to function. 

Edit: So the really big two debilitating effects only happen if damage is received through a single blow:

  •  x2 dam in one hit (Adventurer functionally incapacitated )
  • x3 dam in one hit  ( maimed or severed)

With the exception that head, chest and adomen (the vitals) can recieve the x2 damage effect (Adventurer functionally incapacitated ) through cumulative hits. Though again if these vital hit locations are at minus already ( Damage Equal to or More then  the Locations hit points ) you’re already suffering some very significant damage effects. In particular the Head or Chest locations, which is pretty much equivalent to being x2 functionally incapacitated, only with a slower rate of bleeding. So there is some overlap with the damage effects depending on hit location, and I can see why Psuille combined them in the opening paragraph. 

 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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Thanks again for all the answers. There’s one bit that’s still  niggling at me: the damage from limbs going to total hit points after the limb takes double its capacity in damage. My read of that passage of the core book is that it’s double limb hp damage *from a single blow* that triggers this (subsequent) behaviour. The reason I think this is the case (besides the fact that this clause seems to be following on from the discussion of taking a single big hit on a limb) is that otherwise the system generates “messy” wounds, where some of the damage is associated with a limb, and some with total hp. 

For example: I have 5hp in my arm. I’m hit for 7 damage, and then 5. The second wound becomes 3hp to the arm and 2 to total hp (if we say that the arm can only go to -5). 

The reason this is messy is that healing is done per limb, so the total hp damage heals in parallel with the arm. Hence when healing with first aid, one might well ask *which* hp from that wound get healed? The total hp damage or the limb damage? This isn’t mentioned at all in the first aid section.

With the interpretation that damage *after a single blow does double the limb’s hp* goes onto total hp, this all makes more sense. Wounds to limbs will always either be all limb hp damage (prior to taking a really big hit) or all total hp damage (after taking a really big hit) and there’ll be no “mixed location” damage.

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I think you are over complicating it. Total HP is completely abstract, it simply tracks ALL damage taken regardless of location. It cannot go below 0. Each point of damage reduces Total HP, each point of Heal increases total HP. 

Your arm, hit by a 7 & a 5 damage. (let's assume THP 16) The first hit reduces the arm to -2 and reduces your THP to 9. The next hit reduces the arm to -7* and your THP to 4.

Healing or first aid to the arm will simply add HP to the arm and THP. So a Heal 3 will bring the arm to -4, and THP to 7 (the arm is still out of action). The fact that you have a total HP capacity in hit locations that is greater than THP means that when healed, your could be at full Total HP but still have damage to limbs. This is also important for restoring function to maimed limbs, as a maimed limb must be fully restored within 10 minutes (you may need healing magic beyond your THP)

*there is a little confusion about how far into the negatives you can go. Jason suggested -x2 so a 5hp arm can go to -10hp, I prefer to play -x1, so a 5hp arm can only go to -5hp.

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Yes I agree completely with Psuille again - and I’m pretty sure everyone I know measures the negative hit points as Psuille says. So a 5pt arm can only go down to -5 hitpoints (x2), after which any further damage to the arm will only go to Total Hit points. 

Perhaps the only other slight ambuigiuty is that there is also similarly a limit of x2 damage max that can be recieved through a single blow...*regardless of remaining hit points in that location*. (With the exception of maimed or severed x3, in which case the limb is no longer there, and falling damage can also exceed this limit) 

So a subsequent hit to a 5pt arm already at x2 limit (minus 5), will go instead only to Total Hit points, up to the maximum damage of x2 the hit location.

Edit:...but this is academic as you’re character will likely be dead by then :) 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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2 hours ago, trystero said:

What's the final consensus on this? I'm lost.

Good question.  I think opinions vary! 

Historically, I think  RQ2 stressed the need for a single (x2 hp) blow to trigger adverse effects on an arm/leg.  RQ3 (and maybe the subsequent Mongoose/Design Mechanism versions) switched to it being possible with multiple (smaller) hits.  So how one reads the RQG rules perhaps depends on the lens one views it through. 

There are three things being said in the limb (x2 hp damage) section:

  1. You can't take more than x2 your limb's hp from a single blow.  This seems unambiguous.
  2. Subsequent damage goes on your total hp.  My read of this is that this relates to the situation of having just taken at least x2 your hp from a single blow.  Psullie and Paid a bod yn dwp argue that this starts happening as soon as you pass above x2 the limb's hp (even if this happened from multiple blows). 
  3. When you take x2 your limb's hp, you are in shock.  This is the RQ2 vs RQ3 point; does it have to be from a single blow, or could it come from multiple blows?  Opinions differ.

Perhaps this is a case of YGMV? 😀 Although it may not be an important situation as getting hit repeatedly in the same location (without being knocked out/killed from overall damage) isn't going to come up that frequently.  

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1 hour ago, Tupper said:

Good question.  I think opinions vary! 

Historically, I think  RQ2 stressed the need for a single (x2 hp) blow to trigger adverse effects on an arm/leg.  RQ3 (and maybe the subsequent Mongoose/Design Mechanism versions) switched to it being possible with multiple (smaller) hits.  So how one reads the RQG rules perhaps depends on the lens one views it through. 

There are three things being said in the limb (x2 hp damage) section:

  1. You can't take more than x2 your limb's hp from a single blow.  This seems unambiguous.
  2. Subsequent damage goes on your total hp.  My read of this is that this relates to the situation of having just taken at least x2 your hp from a single blow.  Psullie and Paid a bod yn dwp argue that this starts happening as soon as you pass above x2 the limb's hp (even if this happened from multiple blows). 
  3. When you take x2 your limb's hp, you are in shock.  This is the RQ2 vs RQ3 point; does it have to be from a single blow, or could it come from multiple blows?  Opinions differ.

Perhaps this is a case of YGMV? 😀 Although it may not be an important situation as getting hit repeatedly in the same location (without being knocked out/killed from overall damage) isn't going to come up that frequently.  

Ah ok...

i’ll try and clear this up:

1. Yes that’s right

2. Whenever you take damage to a location you subtract that from both the locations hit points, and your general Hit points. Bearing in mind rule one above, which is the fact that a hit location can’t take more then x2 it’s own hit points, and neither can General hit points take more then that limit in a single blow . Once a location has reached its limit of damage (x2) it can’t take any more, however the same location hit again will still pass on the damage to the General hit points bearing in mind the damage limit from point number 1 above.

3.  The rules as written do say that limbs need to take that x2 damage in a single blow to engage the shock effect: 

“However, an adventurer so damaged from a single blow  is functionally incapacitated...”  

However Head, chest, and abdomen need not be just a single blow, culmaltive hits will do it as well, but that’s more academic as once your down to 0 hitpoints in those locations your already suffering badly.

 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp
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28 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

2. Whenever you take damage to a location you subtract that from both the locations hit points, and your general Hit points. Bearing in my mind rule one above, and the fact that a hit location can’t take more then x2 it’s own hit points. Once a location has reached its limit of damage (x2) it can’t take any more, however a location hit again will still pass on the damage to the total hit points bearing in mind the damage limit from point number 1 above.

To highlight the ambiguity here (regarding the cap on what a location can take), this is the passage from the core RQG book (page 148)

Quote

Damage Equals or Exceeds Double the Location’s Hit Points

Limb: An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow. Thus, a 2-point arm hit for 5 points takes only 4 points of damage off the total hit points: the remaining 1 point of damage has no effect. Further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however. However, an adventurer so damaged from a single blow is functionally incapacitated: they can no longer fight until healed and are in shock. They may try to heal themselves.

My initial read of this was by looking at the "limb" paragraph: we're talking about someone who's taken twice the possible points of damage from a single blow, and then "further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however" refers to someone who's just taken that big single blow (i.e. the sentence before the example). 

Paid a bod yn dwp is seeing the "further blows" clause as referring to the section heading: i.e. someone who's already taken "damage equal or exceeding double the location's hit points". 

Yet a third interpretation (which no-one's raised here, and has just occurred to me now) is that the "further blows" clause might just be clarifying that you can take further damage to the *limb* from subsequent hits (after all, the example mentions that the adventurer takes "4 points of damage off the total hit points", not bothering to mention that it's associated with the arm).

Suddenly I'm starting to find that third interpretation appealing ... It has a certain elegant simplicity to it: normal combat blows are always associated with hit locations, and total hp damage is reserved for poison, sunspears, etc. 

I like a lot of stuff in the RQG book, but this feels like a section that could have used some cleaner wording.😀

Edited by Tupper
Cleaned up alignment of quote.

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I’m not seeing that ambiguity. I think if you read the in play examples it becomes clear how damage is resolved. It’s much more straight forward in play. Look at all the in play examples and it becomes clear how you should resolve the damage. 

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@Paid a bod yn dwp: would you mind giving me a reference to one of the in play examples that clarifies this?  Just a page number would do (no need for a quote).  It would probably help me set my mind at ease on this.  I'm not trying to be obtuse ... just trying to wrap my head around what's going on (I'm new to RQ, unlike most of the people who are helping me out here!).

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I’m referring to the examples that illustrate the damage section we’re talking about. Sorry don’t have the book to hand at the moment. They illustrate how damage works and the relationship between location hit points and general hit points. 

Basically

1. You can’t take more damage then x2 the locations hitpoints in a single blow. . Any damage that exceeds this limit is ignored. Damage received is subtracted from both Location hit points and General hit points.(it’s not divided between them, the same damage applies to both General hit points and location hitpoints. See the adjacent in play examples in the book) 

2. If a hit location has reached its max possible damage limit of x2, then it will not take any more damage, but subsequent hits to that location will still pass on damage to General Hit points (damage which presumably is still capped at the locations x2 limit) 

 

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15 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

I’m referring to the examples that illustrate the damage section we’re talking about. Sorry don’t have the book to hand at the moment. They illustrate how damage works and the relationship between location hit points and general hit points.

Basically

1. You can’t take more damage then x2 the locations hit points in a single blow. . Any damage that exceeds this limit is ignored. Damage received is subtracted from both Location hit points and General hit points.(it’s not divided between them, the same damage applies to both General hit points and location hit points. See the adjacent in play examples in the book) 

2. If a hit location has reached its max possible damage limit of x2, then it will not take any more damage, but subsequent hits to that location will still pass on damage to General Hit points (damage which presumably is still capped at the locations x2 limit) 

 

Let me be crystal clear: I completely agree about point 1.  😀

It's point 2 that I'm not so sure I'm on the same page with.  There I'm unclear that a location has a maximum amount of damage it can take.  The example in the book (that I think you're referring to) is:

Quote

Example: Harmast has 4 hit points in the head and a total of 10 hit points. He takes 10 points of damage in a single blow. His armor protection (1 point) is subtracted, meaning he has suffered 9 points of damage in the head. He takes 9 points of damage to the head, which is more than twice his total for the head hit location, but less than three times. It knocks him out. Harmast is now unconscious, with 2 total hit points remaining and will lose 1 hit points each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied.

That showcases point 1.  Poor old Harmast gets his damage capped at 8 because he can only take 4 points there normally.  It's also not that helpful because he's getting hit in the vitals.

The only piece I can find in that section that mentions a maximum hp for a limb is (page 147):

Quote

An individual hit location can take damage beyond the actual hit points in that location. The severity of the damage has different effects, depending on the hit location.

This suggests that things are open ended as to how much you can take in a location.

We do have Jason's comments

Quote

A hit location can "absorb" three times its normal hit points in damage, so technically a hit location can go into negative up to twice its hit points. 

and

Quote

One easy way to think about the whole hit location system is this: 

I have a 5-point arm hit location.

  • 1-5 hit points. I can use the arm freely until it is reduced below 1 hit point. My total hit points are also also reduced by up to 4 hit points damage. 
  • At 0 to -4 hit points in that location, I can't use the arm any more. My total hit points are also reduced by up to 9 hit points damage (5 initially + up to 4). 
  • At -5 to -9 my arm is broken, seriously chopped up, etc. My total hit points are reduced by 10+ now (5 initial + 5-9 more). Any further hits to this arm come out of my total hit points. I am in shock, can't fight, etc. but I can try to heal myself. 
  • At -10 hit points (through a fall or some other means), my arm is simply gone. It's been pulverized, severed, bones shattered, horribly mutilated, etc. Any further attacks that hit my arm instead hit me somewhere else (see top of page, 2nd paragraph, page 151). 

However, this latter seems to run contrary to what we agree is the rule for being in shock (that it has to be a one off blow) and suggests further that a limb can be severed by many small blows.  So I'm not sure his answer here is consistent with what the rulebook is saying.  I think he's taking an RQ3 spin on the rules ... which makes me reluctant to take either quote as a great interpretation of what the rulebook actually says. 

I do increasingly like the "simple" read of it (i.e. that the remark about total hp just reminds you that subsequent blows can keep applying wounds to the limb).  Makes things pretty easy to summarise:

  • Hit for less than twice the hp of the limb.  Take the damage to the limb.
  • Hit for twice the hp of the limb or more.  Take twice the limb's hp as damage to the limb.  You're in shock.
  • Hit for three times the hp of the limb or more.  You don't have that limb any more, so subsequent hits there pass on to adjacent locations.  [In addition to the effects from twice or more]
  • Cumulative limb damage equal to or more than the limb's hp, the limb is useless.

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I think you have certainly touched on an area in the text that could be made more explicit. Unfortunately some of Jason’s Durall answers in the Q&A  seem contradictory on this matter. But there is one point in the Q&A where he explains a specific example:

“Yes. If you have 4 hit points in the right arm and a sword hits it for 9 points, your arm takes 8 points of damage, which is also considered in your total hit point damage.

But if your right arm is hit again for 2 points, you (not your arm) take 2 more points of total hit point damage.” 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp
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Hmmm... he certainly does suggest that there (although, as we agree, some of his Q&A answers on this topic seem a bit contradictory).

The following is the wording from RQ Classic Edition:

Quote

Arm or Leg Receives More than Twice the Points Available

A modern, high velocity, bullet, hitting a limb hard enough to put it out of action, will probably kill the owner of the limb by hydrostatic shock.  The slower moving ancient weapons do not have this effect.  Therefore, a character cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow.  Thus, a 2 point arm hit for 5 points will only take 4 points of damage off the total Hit Points, the remaining point of damage having no effect.  Further blows to that arm will affect the Hit Points of the character.

However, a character so damaged from a single blow is functionally incapacitated.  He can no longer fight until healed.  He is in shock.  He may heal himself.

For ease of side-by-side comparison, here's a recap of the RQG phrasing from my post above:

Quote

Damage Equals or Exceeds Double the Location’s Hit Points

Limb: An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow. Thus, a 2-point arm hit for 5 points takes only 4 points of damage off the total hit points: the remaining 1 point of damage has no effect. Further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however. However, an adventurer so damaged from a single blow is functionally incapacitated: they can no longer fight until healed and are in shock. They may try to heal themselves.

To my mind, someone's copied the former passage, removed the discussion of bullets vs swords, and then tried to tidy things up by putting "total" into the "further blows" sentence to mimic the wording in the example. 

My guess of RAI in RQ Classic is that all the damage goes to limbs (although you could argue that the "total" in the example suggests that the heavy blow does "total hp damage" instead of regular limb damage).

Dunno if that leaves us further forward.  It's hard to say if the intention of the new wording was to change a rule or not.  My guess would be not, but Jason Durall's comments may suggest otherwise! 😀

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If we’re looking at older editions to seek answers, it’s helpful to look at RQ3 also, which did explicitly cap damage at x2. There was actually no damage category beyond that.

I think that gives a clue to the intended x2 limit that was present in RQ2. In some ways the x3 ( 6pt In RQ2) effect in RQG confuses this as it implies there is a continued scale. X3 is only intended  as a special severing effect from massive damage in one hit. Damage to total hit points is still capped at x2 limit. 

Edit: but I think you have hit on an area which could so easily be made more explicit in RQG text. 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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RQ3 is quite different (barring the pistola reference):

Quote

Damage Equals or Exceeds Double the Location’s Hit Points

Limb: If a modern high-velocity bullet hit a limb hard enough to put it out of action, hydrostatic shock would probably kill the owner of the limb.  Slower-moving hand-to-hand weapons do not have this effect.  But an adventurer cannot take more than twice the hit location damage possible to an arm or leg.  At that point the limb is severed or irrevocably maimed.  (If a severed limb is not brought back up to positive hit points within ten melee rounds it never can be reattached.) Further blows to that limb will not further effect (sic) the hit points of the limb or the total hit points of the adventurer.  Example: if a 4-point limb is hit for 9 points of damage the limb will be damaged for only 8 points of damage, as will the adventurer's total hit points, but the limb will be totally useless.

An adventurer so damaged form a blow is in shock, and can do nothing until healed.  He can try to Heal himself.  He immediately loses all positive fatigue points and one hit point per melee round (blood loss).  If the adventurer 's player makes a CONx1 roll then the adventurer may be heroic. 

If the damage was done at one pass with a slashing weapon or by a natural weapon such as claws or bit, the limb is severed.  Otherwise the limb is maimed.

Now there's some clear wording for you!  Double damage (whether from one blow or many) maims the limb, and that's the most the limb can take.  I suspect that a lot of people here (probably including Jason) have played so much RQ3 that they read the RQG rule and subconsciously apply RQ3 thinking to it (like capping the damage a limb can take).

That said, this is clearly quite a different rule to the RQ2 rule.  My understanding of RQG is that it's supposed to be built off RQ2 (although I do note that the heading "Damage Equals or Exceeds Double the Location's Hit Points" and paragraph heading "Limb" is taken from RQ3).

My feeling is that RQ2 proves the more effective old source when craving enlightenment for RQG...

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Yes agreed RQ2 is the basis that RQG is working from here.

In my mind the x2 limit is like a mirror image of the positive hit points. So a 5pt arm can go down to minus/negative 5 hit points.

I think this is born out in the text of RQG:

“Limb: An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow. Thus, a 2-point arm hit for 5
points takes only 4 points of damage off the total hit points: the remaining 1 point of damage has no effect. Further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however.

Whilst it could be clearer, i think the last sentence does  illustrate that a limit of damage has been reached by the limb, and that any subsequent further damage to the limb will only count against Total Hit points and not the individual limb hit points.

This interpretation is born out by Jason’s Durall example in the Q&A I posted above. It’s a shame he’s muddied the water by posting the other contridictory answers though in the Q&A.  But I think the specificity of that example points to it being correct when read in conjunction with the rules.

 

Edit - here’s Jason Duralls example again for convenience:

“Yes. If you have 4 hit points in the right arm and a sword hits it for 9 points, your arm takes 8 points of damage, which is also considered in your total hit point damage.

But if your right arm is hit again for 2 points, you (not your arm) take 2 more points of total hit point damage.” 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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On 1/22/2019 at 7:36 PM, trystero said:

What's the final consensus on this? I'm lost.

People agree or disagree. Play it however you want.

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