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Tupper

Death by a thousand cuts

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@Paid a bod yn dwp (or others who also rolled a critical on their Truth rune and still care about this pedantry!)

I thought some more about this situation this morning, and about what the two interpretations of subsequent damage mean. 

Consider two characters, Alice and Bob.  Each have 18 hp, 4 in the arm, and heal rate of 3.

Alice gets hit once in the arm for 4hp damage, and then again for 9hp damage.  Bob, on the other hand gets hit first for 9hp damage, and then for 4hp damage.

We'd both agree that Alice has two arm wounds (one for 4hp and one for 8hp), but we'd disagree about what Bob has when the dust settles.

Let's talk about Alice first:

Alice will be in shock (from her maximum damage blow).  Let's suppose someone gives her first aid (bringing her out of shock), and healing 3 hp between the two wounds (2 on the big wound and 1 on the small wound).  Alice now has 9hp damage in her arm.  She needs to heal 6 points for her arm to work again.  This will take 2 weeks to heal.

Now let's look at Bob:

Option 1: damage still goes to limb after a big (2x hp) wound

Bob is in shock (like Alice).  Someone gives him first aid (bringing him out of shock), and healing 2 hp on the big wound and 1hp on the small wound.  Bob has now (like Alice) 9hp damage in his arm.  He needs to heal 6 points for it to function again, which also takes 2 weeks.  This wouldn't surprise us because Bob took exactly the same wounds Alice took, just in opposite order.

Option 2: damage goes to total hp after a big (2x hp) wound

Bob is in shock from the big 8hp wound to his arm.  He also has a 4hp total hp wound.  Someone gives him first aid on the arm wound (bringing him out of shock).  Can he be given first aid on the total hp wound?  Not totally clear; the corebook says "Use First Aid once on damage from one injury to a specific hit location."  So maybe Bob can't get first aid on the total hp wound.  However, the 8hp arm damage is the more annoying problem: it is stopping him using his arm.  Say he got 2hp recovered from his First Aid on that wound (like Alice), he now has a 6hp damage on his arm.  One week later, he will have healed 3 of those points, and his arm is good to go.  Further, his total hp damage will have healed from 4hp down to 1hp. 

So it looks like (with option 2) Bob gets a much better deal than Alice, even though they took identical injuries, just in a different order (and received identical medical treatment).  One week later, his arm is functional, and two weeks later, he's good as new.  Alice one week later still can't use her arm, and takes three weeks to be fully healed.

Now before things go too much further, I would point out that Bob's situation seems pretty unlikely to come up very often.  When he took the first (9hp) wound, he would have been in shock, so why did he get hit a second time?  This is going to be a pretty unusual situation!  Hence I suspect you could jump either way on this one, and quite probably never see it come up.

Me, I like option 1, because it treats Alice and Bob the same way for having the same wounds, whereas option 2 seems like a "sweet" deal for Bob.  He's playing tennis a week later, while Alice is stuck watching Shortland Street reruns for a fortnight.

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1 hour ago, Tupper said:

@Paid a bod yn dwp (or others who also rolled a critical on their Truth rune and still care about this pedantry!)

I thought some more about this situation this morning, and about what the two interpretations of subsequent damage mean. 

Consider two characters, Alice and Bob.  Each have 18 hp, 4 in the arm, and heal rate of 3.

Alice gets hit once in the arm for 4hp damage, and then again for 9hp damage.  Bob, on the other hand gets hit first for 9hp damage, and then for 4hp damage.

We'd both agree that Alice has two arm wounds (one for 4hp and one for 8hp), but we'd disagree about what Bob has when the dust settles.

Let's talk about Alice first:

Alice will be in shock (from her maximum damage blow).  Let's suppose someone gives her first aid (bringing her out of shock), and healing 3 hp between the two wounds (2 on the big wound and 1 on the small wound).  Alice now has 9hp damage in her arm.  She needs to heal 6 points for her arm to work again.  This will take 2 weeks to heal.

Now let's look at Bob:

Option 1: damage still goes to limb after a big (2x hp) wound

Bob is in shock (like Alice).  Someone gives him first aid (bringing him out of shock), and healing 2 hp on the big wound and 1hp on the small wound.  Bob has now (like Alice) 9hp damage in his arm.  He needs to heal 6 points for it to function again, which also takes 2 weeks.  This wouldn't surprise us because Bob took exactly the same wounds Alice took, just in opposite order.

Option 2: damage goes to total hp after a big (2x hp) wound

Bob is in shock from the big 8hp wound to his arm.  He also has a 4hp total hp wound.  Someone gives him first aid on the arm wound (bringing him out of shock).  Can he be given first aid on the total hp wound?  Not totally clear; the corebook says "Use First Aid once on damage from one injury to a specific hit location."  So maybe Bob can't get first aid on the total hp wound.  However, the 8hp arm damage is the more annoying problem: it is stopping him using his arm.  Say he got 2hp recovered from his First Aid on that wound (like Alice), he now has a 6hp damage on his arm.  One week later, he will have healed 3 of those points, and his arm is good to go.  Further, his total hp damage will have healed from 4hp down to 1hp. 

So it looks like (with option 2) Bob gets a much better deal than Alice, even though they took identical injuries, just in a different order (and received identical medical treatment).  One week later, his arm is functional, and two weeks later, he's good as new.  Alice one week later still can't use her arm, and takes three weeks to be fully healed.

Now before things go too much further, I would point out that Bob's situation seems pretty unlikely to come up very often.  When he took the first (9hp) wound, he would have been in shock, so why did he get hit a second time?  This is going to be a pretty unusual situation!  Hence I suspect you could jump either way on this one, and quite probably never see it come up.

Me, I like option 1, because it treats Alice and Bob the same way for having the same wounds, whereas option 2 seems like a "sweet" deal for Bob.  He's playing tennis a week later, while Alice is stuck watching Shortland Street reruns for a fortnight.

 

It stands to reason that if you allow for more damage to go to the arm location  that it’s going to take longer to heal. I’m not sure what you’re trying to resolve in these examples? 

The examples give you a good idea of what a x2 cap on wounds would do vs a x3 cap on wounds. X3 ends up costing unsurprisingly more healing as location hitpoints can go down further.

One thing to mention, is that wounds aren’t as granular as you’re describing them in the examples. When you heal, you’re  healing hit locations , not individual wounds. Bear in mind healing simultaneously heals General hitpoints and the location hit points. 

Be nice if @Jason Durall could clarify whether or not hit locations can take damage greater then x2 with subsequent hits? In the Q&A thread there are contradictory answers.  My read of RQG is that the damage limit for hit locations is capped at x2 it’s starting hitpoint value.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

I’m not sure what you’re trying to resolve in these examples?

I was trying to work through what the implications were of the two different interpretations of what happens after the major wound; to illustrate why one would (or would not) care about the distinction. 

I think my punchline was that I find the "switching to total hp damage after a big hit" a bit strange, in that Bob ends up in much rosier situation than Alice, even though they took the same two hits.  Switching to taking damage from total hits could be a "bonus" from taking a big hit to a limb.  However, Bob's situation is strange, he'd only end up like that if someone hit him after he was incapacitated.  That's conceivable (albeit ungentlemanly) but I suspect that if he was incapacitated and someone took a swipe at him, he'd probably have taken a much worse hit than 4hp. 

12 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

The examples give you a good idea of what a x2 cap on wounds would do vs a x3 cap on wounds. X3 ends up costing unsurprisingly more healing as location hitpoints can go down further.

That's true.  I guess if one wanted to have an overall cap on total hp a location can take, it would change things.

13 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

One thing to mention, is that wounds aren’t as granular as you’re describing them in the examples. When you heal, you’re  healing hit locations , not individual wounds. Bear in mind healing simultaneously heals General hitpoints and the location hit points.

I'm pretty sure I've done that right.  First aid heals *wounds*.  Natural healing heals *locations*.  Nobody's dying from their overall damage (everyone has 6hp (=18-12) left after the fight), so I didn't make much comment on that.  The point was more the distinction between the 4hp being associated with a location or being purely total hp damage.

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7 minutes ago, Tupper said:

I'm pretty sure I've done that right.  First aid heals *wounds*.  Natural healing heals *locations*.  Nobody's dying from their overall damage (everyone has 6hp (=18-12) left after the fight), so I didn't make much comment on that.  The point was more the distinction between the 4hp being associated with a location or being purely total hp damage.

Ah yes you’re right.  *first aid* can be used on the same hit-location once for each wound taken there. Hadn’t realised the potential multiple use of first aid on individual hit locations. 

It’s late where I am so I shall mull this over for another day, and come back to this when I can give it proper thought. 

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9 hours ago, Tupper said:

Switching to taking damage from total hits could be a "bonus" from taking a big hit to a limb. 

Not sure if *switching* is the right word?  You’re already taking damage to General Hit points, in any attack. But I see your point.

I think so long as you’re consistent in your ruling (whether x2, or x3 limit) this shouldn’t matter. 

Thanks to your examples above  the question has been simplified. Do you want a game that models longer healing rates and therefore a bit more book keeping (x3 limit), or do you go for the game with a bit less book keeping?  

I still think the rules show a x2 limit to max wounds to hit locations ( though not as clearly as they could). As a player I’d prefer a little less bookkeeping, so that also suites me on that level. The x2 limit is also conveniently the same as damage that can be recieved through a single hit, so it makes sense to me. 

 

 

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The way that I have played it is that if a location receives massive damage in one blow, then it is smashed to pulp, chopped off or run through completely. Whereas, if it receives cumulative damage, then it is badly injured, but not taken off.

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22 minutes ago, soltakss said:

The way that I have played it is that if a location receives massive damage in one blow, then it is smashed to pulp, chopped off or run through completely. Whereas, if it receives cumulative damage, then it is badly injured, but not taken off.

Yep that’s How i play it. Just debating cap to cumaltive damage - x2 or x3 Jason’s given contradictory answers...no biggie though. 

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8 minutes ago, JohannesH said:

How about other serious wounds, like poked eyes, sliced ears, broken tooth that don't kill but can be troublesome for characters?.

Unless an eye or ear is missing I'd say that such injuries are healed by healing magic, but not by natural healing.

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1 hour ago, JohannesH said:

How about other serious wounds, like poked eyes, sliced ears, broken tooth that don't kill but can be troublesome for characters?.

Sumath is correct. Note that maimed limbs that don't get fully healed within 10 minutes are permanently useless and have their HP reduced. As a GM you could impose suitable restrictions based on that, Manipulation penalties for activities that would normally require 2 hands in the case of an arm, ranged attack Penalties for and eye etc. Regrow Limb will correct even those in time. 

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25 minutes ago, Psullie said:

Sumath is correct. Note that maimed limbs that don't get fully healed within 10 minutes are permanently useless and have their HP reduced. As a GM you could impose suitable restrictions based on that, Manipulation penalties for activities that would normally require 2 hands in the case of an arm, ranged attack Penalties for and eye etc. Regrow Limb will correct even those in time. 

Also if you wanted to target a specific area   In combat you could use an *aimed shot* . RAW this would be to target a hit location, but if it fitted with the story/play style you could be more specific and aim for an eye. 

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9 hours ago, JohannesH said:

How about other serious wounds, like poked eyes, sliced ears, broken tooth that don't kill but can be troublesome for characters?.

Does not exist in Runequest (at least in the rules).😀

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@Tupper I think I've had a Eureka moment...

*Assumes Miss Marple persona*

Going back to your original question, You were unsure if the special effects from big hits were brought on by a single, or cumaltive hits. We established that it was dependent on hit location

  • limbs - Single blow (x2, x3)
  • Head,Chest, Abdomen - cumulative, or single blow (x2, x3)

This reading is based on each hit location description being its own mini rule set, with no cross over under the main heading. Reading them at face value - If its not mentioned in the text it doesn't apply, which I think is the style of writing in RQG. The problems we've encounted have been to do with applying the same rules to each hit location under the main headings.

Following that logic through, the same can be inferred for the question:

What is the limit that a hit location can go down to negative wounds?

Its dependant on the Hit location

  • Limbs - x2  Hit points 
  • Head, Chest, Abdomen x3 Hit points *

Its a technicality and in practice your character is probably dead before they reach x3 wounds in the chest through cumulative hits, but it makes sense of the text and how its structured. It follows that if we use cumulative hits in the first point for head, chest, Abdomen to trigger special effects, that a logical limit of x3 negative maximum will be a necessity for those locations too.

So I think Jason Duralls seemingly contradictory answers on the the Q&A thread are actually right ( if a bit confused about the distinction).  We'll see what he says when he answers the question I posted there.

* Note this would mean that its only the limbs that stop receiving damage directly once they reach the x2 limit. Head, Chest, Abdomen will continue receiving damage up to the x3 limit. It would also mean that whilst limbs can't take more damage in a single hit then x2 - The Head, Chest, and Abdomen don't have this damage restriction for single blows, as it’s not mentioned in relation to those locations.

This models the limbs being not quite as vital as the core hit locations. Multiple smaller wounds to the core hit locations can eventually lead to *maimed* condition (death by a thousaund cuts).But the limbs follow a different rule needing the x3 to be delivered in a single hit to trigger the *maimed/severed* condition.

 

 

Edit: Reading through the examples of play seems to bear out my conclusions.

Quote

Example: Harmast has 4 hit points in the head and a total of 10 hit points. He takes 10 points of damage in a single blow. His armor protection (1 point) is subtracted, meaning he has suffered 9 points of damage in the head. He takes 9 points of damage to the head, which is more than twice his total for the head hit location, but less than three times. It knocks him out. Harmast is now unconscious, with 2 total hit points remaining and will lose 1 hit points each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied.  RQG p148

The example doesn't suggest that the damage to the head is capped at x2. He's taken 9 points to the head, which is 1pt more then would be allowed under a x2 cap. So this points to damage going into x3 max in the head.

The final confirmation for me comes in the sub headings and how they're worded.  - Damage Equal or Exceeds Double the Locations Hit Points, and Damage Equal or Exceeds Triple the locations hit points. If damage followed the same rules for all hit locations, then the headings might say something like *Damage Equal or Exceeds Double the Locations Hit Points in a single blow*. As such they don't, which to me suggests  there are divergent rulings dependent on hit location, as i suggest in my think through above. 

....I rest my case Your Honour

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp
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Following on from my post above - I’d always assumed that the x2 damage restriction to limbs applied to all of the hit locations. A careful reading has shown that’s not the case. Now I look back at RQ2 and the wording is the same there. It’s talking specifically  about “limbs” , not Hit locations. A lot of confusion could be avoided if the rules were a tiny bit more explicit about this distinction, and stating clearly the maximum wounds that each hit location can go down to. The distinction is there in the text, but you have to be very mindful. 

I think perhaps its helpful to think of the damage rules  for *limbs* as a sort of exception to the general rule, which Head, chest and Abdomen follow. 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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Here's my summary of how I think damage effects actually work by hit location. Interested to see whether this is how everyone else parses the rules.

Damage < Location HP

  • All Hit Locations: No effect beyond total HP loss.

Damage >= Location HP

  • Arm: Arm is unusable; adventurer drops anything held with it.
  • Leg: Leg is unusable; adventurer falls prone, takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds.
  • Abdomen: Both legs are unusable, adventurer falls prone and takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds. Adventurer bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless abdomen is treated or healed.
  • Chest: Adventurer falls prone, can take no actions, bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless chest is treated or healed.
  • Head: Adventurer is unconscious, dies in 5 minutes unless head is treated or healed.

Damage >= 2 × Location HP

  • Arm or Leg:
    • If limb suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.
  • Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
    • If location suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer is unconscious, bleeds 1 HP/round until location is treated or healed.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.

Damage >= 3 × Location HP

  • Arm or Leg:
    • If limb suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; limb is severed or maimed, adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.
  • Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
    • If location suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer dies instantly.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.

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@Paid a bod yn dwp

Thanks for keeping thinking about this!

I'm still relatively unconvinced that there's a maximum (RAW) for any area.  I do believe that Jason muddied the water in his comments by trying to read RQG (which is roughlyRQ2) with a RQ3 lens on it.  However, let me make a few comments on your comments.

Quote

Example: Harmast has 4 hit points in the head and a total of 10 hit points. He takes 10 points of damage in a single blow. His armor protection (1 point) is subtracted, meaning he has suffered 9 points of damage in the head. He takes 9 points of damage to the head, which is more than twice his total for the head hit location, but less than three times. It knocks him out. Harmast is now unconscious, with 2 total hit points remaining and will lose 1 hit points each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied.  RQG p148

I've bolded two other parts of the quote.  Harmast has 10 hit points, and once the dust settles (after his 9 points of damage), he has 2.  When I first read this example, I thought: that makes sense, he's capped at double damage to an area, so he only took 8 of the 9 points (10-2=8).  But I agree with you that the way that section is laid out, the special rule for capping damage is arms/legs only:

Quote

Limb: An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow. (RQG, p148)

So clearly limbs are arms and legs (not heads), and I agree that heads, chests and abdomens are not covered by the single blow damage cap.  Harmast should have taken 9 points of damage, be at 1hp and bleeding out.

On the topic of the damage cap, if anyone takes 3x their head, chest, or abdomen, they are dead.  The rule under 3x damage is superfluous, since the total hp damage will have killed them without need for a special comment that these types of injury are fatal.  For example, if Harmast takes 12 points to the head, that's killed him outright since he only has 10 hp total.  I double checked the bestiary, and this is true for all shapes and sizes of critter too.  Perhaps there could be some weird magical effect where someone ended up with boosted total hp that might make this rule important ... but I don't think day-to-day it'll ever matter.

So ... perhaps one could note that head/chest/abdomen have a maximum damage possible of 3x their hp, but it's moot, since a person is dead by the time they hit that level!

Note that that's not true for arms.  Harmast has 3hp in each arm, so technically he can survive taking 3x that hp.  Arms and legs though, are (mildly) contentious.  If you cap the total damage someone can take from an arm/leg at 3x that hp, then you can't kill someone by repeatedly hitting the same arm (although you can with a leg).  If you cap at 2x, you can't kill someone by repeatedly hitting their leg.  Of course, if you go with the "subsequent hits go to total hp (but not the limb per se)" then they can be killed that way.

As mentioned earlier, I still think the most elegant interpretation is that hits are always associated with a location, individual hits to arms/legs are capped at 2x hp, but there's no overall cap.  Others (yourself included) may disagree, but of course that's the role of a GM to decide what makes sense for their group, and roll with it.  I figure we've sliced and diced page 148 six ways to Sunday in this thread, so folks who read it can make up their own minds about how everything should be interpreted! 😀

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36 minutes ago, Tupper said:

When I first read this example, I thought: that makes sense, he's capped at double damage to an area, so he only took 8 of the 9 points (10-2=8).  But I agree with you that the way that section is laid out, the special rule for capping damage is arms/legs only:

Hmm...Yes I glossed over that in my Eureka moment. This example doesn’t work consistently with either of our possible approaches. It clearly states he takes 9pts to the head, but then as you point out he only takes 8pts damage to total hit points. 

If you interpret it either way the example is  incorrect. It’s incorrect if we go with the x2 cap, as the head has taken 9pts, and it’s incorrect if you go with uncapped (x3 max) as Total Hit points have taken only 8pts. 

If we give the writers benefit of the doubt and the 9pts mentioned is before any reductions due to a x2 cap, it’s still a bit of an incomplete example. 

I’m starting to see why some people have found this a difficult section to digest. 

 

36 minutes ago, Tupper said:

I’m still relatively unconvinced that there's a maximum (RAW) for any area

The x2 cap for limbs is stated pretty clearly. The x3 max for head, chest and abdomen is the default limit before the location has been pulverised/maimed/severed. After x3 it’s no longer there to take any more damage.

 . 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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41 minutes ago, Tupper said:

On the topic of the damage cap, if anyone takes 3x their head, chest, or abdomen, they are dead.  The rule under 3x damage is superfluous, since the total hp damage will have killed them without need for a special comment that these types of injury are fatal. 

Yep it’s a colourful way of simulating an horrendous hit 

Edited by Paid a bod yn dwp

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42 minutes ago, trystero said:

Here's my summary of how I think damage effects actually work by hit location. Interested to see whether this is how everyone else parses the rules.

Damage < Location HP

  • All Hit Locations: No effect beyond total HP loss.

Damage >= Location HP

  • Arm: Arm is unusable; adventurer drops anything held with it.
  • Leg: Leg is unusable; adventurer falls prone, takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds.
  • Abdomen: Both legs are unusable, adventurer falls prone and takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds. Adventurer bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless abdomen is treated or healed.
  • Chest: Adventurer falls prone, can take no actions, bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless chest is treated or healed.
  • Head: Adventurer is unconscious, dies in 5 minutes unless head is treated or healed.

Damage >= 2 × Location HP

  • Arm or Leg:
    • If limb suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.
  • Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
    • If location suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer is unconscious, bleeds 1 HP/round until location is treated or healed.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.

Damage >= 3 × Location HP

  • Arm or Leg:
    • If limb suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; limb is severed or maimed, adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.
  • Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
    • If location suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer dies instantly.
    • Otherwise, no further effect.

I agree (almost) entirely with what's said here. 

The only bits I disagree with, I've edited in red: the single hit criteria is only for limbs (i.e. arms and legs).  So you can get knocked out or killed from multiple blows to the head/chest/abdomen.  Note however, that you're dead from total HP damage before you hit 3x location HP in head/chest/abdomen anyway!

The other thing I'd clarify is that IMHO (and others differ here) the "total HP" damage that's being accumulated is always mirrored with damage to the location in question.  The reason that this is important is natural healing, since this is done on a location-by-location basis (see my earlier posts about Bob and Alice).

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@Jeff @Jason Durall We’ve put the damage rules through their paces and have found them to be difficult to settle on a consistent reading ( we’ve really tried ). Could you please help confirm what the intention is?

We suspect an example may be incorrect? 

50 minutes ago, Tupper said:

Example: Harmast has 4 hit points in the head and a total of 10 hit points. He takes 10 points of damage in a single blow. His armor protection (1 point) is subtracted, meaning he has suffered 9 points of damage in the head. He takes 9 points of damage to the head, which is more than twice his total for the head hit location, but less than three times. It knocks him out. Harmast is now unconscious, with 2 total hit points remaining and will lose 1 hit points each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied.  RQG p148

Is damage to all hit locations capped at x2, or is that just intended as a limit for limbs? It reads like it’s just intended for limbs but the example above muddies the water. 

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18 minutes ago, Tupper said:

I agree (almost) entirely with what's said here. 

The only bits I disagree with, I've edited in red: the single hit criteria is only for limbs (i.e. arms and legs).  So you can get knocked out or killed from multiple blows to the head/chest/abdomen.  Note however, that you're dead from total HP damage before you hit 3x location HP in head/chest/abdomen anyway!

The other thing I'd clarify is that IMHO (and others differ here) the "total HP" damage that's being accumulated is always mirrored with damage to the location in question.  The reason that this is important is natural healing, since this is done on a location-by-location basis (see my earlier posts about Bob and Alice).

The way we played it, cumulative damage mattered. So you would remove "from a single hit" from limbs as well.

SDLeary

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18 minutes ago, Tupper said:

The other thing I'd clarify is that IMHO (and others differ here) the "total HP" damage that's being accumulated is always mirrored with damage to the location in question The reason that this is important is natural healing, since this is done on a location-by-location basis (see my earlier posts about Bob and Alice).

The section on limbs is  I think clear on this. Limbs as an exception are capped at the x2 damage limit. Once they get to x2 limit they no longer take damage to location. But can still be hit,  with damage passing on only to total hit points. It’s quirky but I think the intention is to refelect their relatively less vital nature.

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27 minutes ago, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

@Jeff @Jason Durall We’ve put the damage rules through their paces and have found them to be difficult to settle on a consistent reading ( we’ve really tried ). Could you please help confirm what the intention is?

We suspect an example may be incorrect? 

Is damage to all hit locations capped at x2, or is that just intended as a limit for limbs? It reads like it’s just intended for limbs but the example above muddies the water. 

I’ve strongly suspected this example is just wrong. Harmast should have taken 9 damage and have 1 hit point remaining.

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6 minutes ago, daskindt said:

I’ve strongly suspected this example is just wrong. Harmast should have taken 9 damage and have 1 hit point remaining.

Yes that would make the most sense. Hopefully chaosium will pick this up, as I’ve come across a few people who’ve struggled with this section.

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