pansophy 137 Report post Posted January 21 Hello Forum, I need a bit of help. Just yesterday I looked at the Armour Creation rules (p.158) and I can follow all the examples until I hit page 162. These are the issues I have with the examples: 1) the text for the helmet does not seem to match the example. The Plating seems to cover all slots of 5+. Then there is a Visor added at a slot 4. 2) why does the Plating for the Head have 5/0+ and 8/5+ ? From what I see it should be 5/0+ and 8/4+. But then the text at the bottom left reads: Head: 5/0+, 8/0+ 2a) if that is because of the added Plating Joints, why even bother covering the slots 5, 6, 7 & 8 with Plating, and not instead add the Plating Joints in slot 8? It would have the same mechanical effect (8/0+) and would not cost as much. 2b) the slot 0 for the Head Padding layer should be 'Mail Joints', not just 'Mail', as Padding starts at slot 1 - and slot 0 can only be covered by Joints. 3) Arms and Legs: the Total values for the Armour/Covering ratings are wrong. They should be as in the text on the left: Arms: 1/0+, 5/2+ & Legs: 1/0+, 5/3+ My biggest issue is this: a Plate armour for the Body. This could be true, if the Head example on page 162 is correct: Layer 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Padding --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Plating n/a n/a --- --- --- --- --- --- Plate Iron 8/0+ Joint Plate But I suppose the example for the Head should be more along this: Layer 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Padding (Mail (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) 5/0+ Joint) Plating Plate Plate Plate Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron 8/0+ Joint Joint Joint Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Am I correct - or am I not getting something? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RosenMcStern 902 Report post Posted January 22 Too little time to answer this in detail now, the answer will have to wait for a few hours. It is entirely possible that there are some mistakes in the text. One point that I wish to underline once more : all this number crunching is not necessary during play, it is only required if you want to create your own armour suits. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soltakss 1,954 Report post Posted January 23 I have had many conversations with Paolo about the rules for making armour in RD100. The most memorable, for me, was asking why we needed 6 pages of armour creation rules, to which the brilliant answer was "We couldn't do it in less". They are Marmite in many ways (You love them or hate them), but they can be useful when you want to design realistic armour. I'd have preferred them to be in a Revolution Companion, to be honest, but when writing some RD100 SciFi rules, it soon became apparent that the Making Armour rules just worked, even for technologically advanced materials. Personally, and this is no reflection on the excellent RD100 rules, I don't bother with armour coverage when playing Revolution, it just doesn't seem important to me. So, the making Armour rules for Armour Coverage don't help me that much. When looking at the SciFi stuff, I had to try and get my head around the Making Armour Rules and I think I managed it, at least for those rules. They do hang together very well and can be used to make new armour or to customise armour. You just have to be very rigid when applying them. Also, don't do on paper, use a Spreadsheet, it makes it so much easier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RosenMcStern 902 Report post Posted January 24 13 hours ago, soltakss said: They are Marmite in many ways (You love them or hate them), but they can be useful when you want to design realistic armour. I'd have preferred them to be in a Revolution Companion, to be honest, but when writing some RD100 SciFi rules, it soon became apparent that the Making Armour rules just worked, even for technologically advanced materials. This is probably what we will do in the future: put them in a companion. However, this means that for the system to remain truly generic we will have to include a good three pages of armour representing the various ages of history (or future history). For this first edition of the rules, I preferred to include the building procedure - which can look scary to someone. Quote Personally, and this is no reflection on the excellent RD100 rules, I don't bother with armour coverage when playing Revolution, it just doesn't seem important to me. So, the making Armour rules for Armour Coverage don't help me that much. Depending on the setting, it can be more or less important. But certain armour types are poorly represented by rules which do not include armour coverage. Armours that cover only the front of a target are impossible to represent properly, yet they are the most popular of all when you expect to face mostly ranged attacks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RosenMcStern 902 Report post Posted January 24 On 1/22/2019 at 12:53 AM, pansophy said: Hello Forum, I need a bit of help. Just yesterday I looked at the Armour Creation rules (p.158) and I can follow all the examples until I hit page 162. These are the issues I have with the examples: 1) the text for the helmet does not seem to match the example. The Plating seems to cover all slots of 5+. Then there is a Visor added at a slot 4. It is a mistake, there is also an unnecessary "will" in the text. Probably already spotted by Zit in one of his Holmes-like investigation of the text, but thanks for spotting it. Replace "6+ will" with "5+". Quote 2) why does the Plating for the Head have 5/0+ and 8/5+ ? From what I see it should be 5/0+ and 8/4+. But then the text at the bottom left reads: Head: 5/0+, 8/0+ 2a) if that is because of the added Plating Joints, why even bother covering the slots 5, 6, 7 & 8 with Plating, and not instead add the Plating Joints in slot 8? It would have the same mechanical effect (8/0+) and would not cost as much. 2b) the slot 0 for the Head Padding layer should be 'Mail Joints', not just 'Mail', as Padding starts at slot 1 - and slot 0 can only be covered by Joints. Yes, it should be 5/0+, 8/4+. The Joints placed in slot 4 should in fact be in slot "0", but that would over-complicate the table 8/0+, 5/1+, 8/5+, so it is changed into 5/0+, 8/4+ which is statistically equivalent but simpler. Quote 3) Arms and Legs: the Total values for the Armour/Covering ratings are wrong. They should be as in the text on the left: Arms: 1/0+, 5/2+ & Legs: 1/0+, 5/3+ My biggest issue is this: a Plate armour for the Body. This could be true, if the Head example on page 162 is correct: Layer 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Padding --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Plating n/a n/a --- --- --- --- --- --- Plate Iron 8/0+ Joint Plate But I suppose the example for the Head should be more along this: Layer 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Padding (Mail (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) 5/0+ Joint) Plating Plate Plate Plate Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron 8/0+ Joint Joint Joint Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Am I correct - or am I not getting something? True, there is a series of mistakes. Probably introduced in layout, but I did not spot them. The head should be : Layer 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Total Padding Mail Mail Mail Mail (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) (Mail) 5/0+ Plating Plate Iron Iron Iron Iron Iron 8/4+ Joint Plate Plate Plate Plate Plate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zit 208 Report post Posted January 24 1 hour ago, RosenMcStern said: Probably already spotted by Zit in one of his Holmes-like investigation of the text, I must admit that I skipped the Making Armour Rules 😬 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pansophy 137 Report post Posted January 24 Hi Paolo, thanks for clearing that up. At least I now know I understood the rules right. 😁 Sorry for taking up your time you probably could use on one of your other started projects, but this really helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
soltakss 1,954 Report post Posted January 25 21 hours ago, pansophy said: Sorry for taking up your time you probably could use on one of your other started projects, but this really helps. That is what forums like this are for. Paolo is very approachable and will happily explain and clarify rules. He's a good lad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
