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Questions about Ygg, Yggites, and Wolf Pirates

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2 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

The Wolf Pirates shown in Prince of Sartar have the tan skin of more southerly Genertelans, like Esrolians, Caladralanders or Manirians, while Gunda the Guilty, a half-Jonating or -Junoran and half-Brithini is shown as nearly lily-white.

Maybe I'm assuming things here, but I'd say those guys are probably newer recruits from later travels, and actual Yggite Wolf Pirates will look a bit more like Gunda - them being geographically, and possibly ancestrally more closely linked. That's just speculation though - Harrek is portrayed as deep-tan, which I believe is canonical in the sense that the Rathori are said to have fairly dark skin, while their neighbors, the Reindeer Hsunchen, do not. I might remember some things wrong. Maybe he's just been out in the sun a lot.

A fairly mixed bunch of Fronelan warriors is likely to have helped Harrek plunder Sog City and may have accompanied him to the archipelago and then further south, accounting for a lot of variety for ships under his direct command (rather than Yggites following along).

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EDIT: In terms of clothing, I would strongly argue that the Yggites wear woollen clothing over stereotypical fantasy furs, except in specific conditions. Partially this is because wool preserves its insulating properties even when wet (which is a huge boon if you're a sailor), but also because the Ygg's Isles are portrayed as fairly non-wooded, which would *seem* to make them better suited for sheep or goat grazing than hunting for pelts.

That wool would have to be goat wool, and unlikely to be of Angora quality.

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There are exceptions though - reindeer skins are probably useful for a lot of things, depending on how much of a Sami-vibe we give them, and since they are sealers, they are probably familiar with the positive properties of sealskin.

I wouldn't emphasize the use of semi-domestic reindeer - the coastal Finns (Sami) were boat people rather than nomads. They had reindeer traps to capture herds on their annual wanderings to the coasts, but didn't follow the beasts into the highlands. If these Sami came by without too much reliance on reindeer (which were found only on the largest of the Lofoten and Vesteralen islands), the Yggites who don't have any magical connections to these beasts probably can make do largely without them. Especially after a crisis that made them eat children, I don't expect herds of reindeer to have survived the isolation, although Loskalmi settlers might have re-established some.

Seals on the other hand are sort of maternal kin to the Yggites, which wouldn't keep them from hunting and slaughtering them and wearing their furs.

Edited by Joerg
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Whether they died out on the isles or not isn't necessarily a definite matter for Yggite culture as a whole, as Yggites also dwelled on the mainland. I agree with you that if based on that single line, it does seem likely that the insular reindeer were probably gone, but who knows what the mainlanders got up to in the meanwhile, and also - which cultural adaptation proved to become dominant (if any) after the Opening.

Admittedly, reindeer are more of a neat element to tie in to give them regional uniqueness from comparable cultures of Orlanthi origin in other parts of Fronela, imho. There are arguments for their inclusion, such as them being able to subsist on hardier lichen and mosses than horses or cattle and sheep, which give them an edge. Also - let's not forget that this is Glorantha, and pretty much whatever can conceivably be ridden will be ridden, RW physiology be damned. Their furs are useful for footwear (although seal fur is arguably better for this purpose, with a generous application of Carex vesicariaor arctic sedge, for dryness), as well as for other kinds of clothes or for sleeping mats. Reindeer meat is very lean, though, and seals and walruses are probably more useful for getting through harsh winters. Even some white fish, probably. However, reindeer meat is more easily preserved - for those same reason. Reindeer also shed their antlers annually, which makes them a useful resource of horn-derived products. Ultimately you just gotta make a choice with this sort of thing, to include it as integral or not. Either works, imho.
 
In terms of settlements, however, I've previously suggested looking to the Atlantic insular Bronze and Iron age for inspirations. The idea of Yggite longhouses is admittedly a cool one, but it'd also be interesting to see Atlantic roundhouses like the ones at Scara Brae (although these are admittedly neolithic), or Scottish Brochs:

934f0cfb153f36de2ce1c9a7f9061cf7.jpg

This design has benefits in that it implicitly shows a society preoccupied with defensiveness, as well as reducing wood usage - which is obviously a scarcity, Closing or not.

 

Do we actually have accurate weather conditions or climate for the northwestern part of Fronela? Given that there's pine forest right up to the glacier's edge, something weird is definitely going on, regardless. You'd expect more birch (of different kinds), probably some juniper (which is useful for bows or other wooden tools requiring elasticity) and maybe some larch or even alder(?) further south, or in small groups along the coast

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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4 hours ago, Joerg said:

 If the Yggites share the Orlanthi immunity to wind chill

Where is it stated that the Orlanthi are immune to wind chill?

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1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Whether they died out on the isles or not isn't necessarily a definite matter for Yggite culture as a whole, as Yggites also dwelled on the mainland. 

The mainland and the nearest islands were part of the endless spruce forest that is Winterwood. While the aldryami evidently tolerate or even encourage Yggite lumber-cutting on those fringes, I am less certain that they would have encouraged permanent human settlements there, even if their main primary production was turned towards the seas.

 

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I agree with you that if based on that single line, it does seem likely that the insular reindeer were probably gone, but who knows what the mainlanders got up to in the meanwhile, and also - which cultural adaptation proved to become dominant (if any) after the Opening.

Winterwood is nothing like say the Gudbrandsdal forest. It is spruce forest, dense, dark, and a huge monoculture with little in the way of undergrowth or clearings. The Norwegian concept of "Forest" is closer to "open low tree savannah" than anything that has to do with Aldryami. The closest European equivalent might be Schwarzwald, but for the epic size.

This kind of forest is quite hostile to any type of hoofed ungulates, and definitely not a habitat of reindeer.

The storm-plagued rocky archipelago offshore might be a lot closer to the Vesteralen in landscape, but probably (once) with patches of denser forest, too. (Possibly no longer since the Ban fell. Yggite material culture is likely to rely on wood for most production, and with access to the mainland cut off by the Ban, they would have ravaged their own tree stands beyond recognition.)

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Admittedly, reindeer are more of a neat element to tie in to give them regional uniqueness from comparable cultures of Orlanthi origin in other parts of Fronela, imho.

Goats are in the canon - woolly ones, at that, though producing a coarse wool. This is part of their Vadrudi heritage. But there may be semi-domesticated reindeer as secondary herds. If so, then introduced from the mainland around Winterwood, possibly in times when northern Loskalm was anything but solidly Malkioni.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Also - let's not forget that this is Glorantha, and pretty much whatever can conceivably be ridden will be ridden, RW physiology be damned.

Yggites riding reindeer comes dangerously close to Hitchhiker's Guide Vogons riding their own quadrupeds...

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Their furs are useful for footwear (although seal fur is arguably better for this purpose, with a generous application of Carex vesicariaor arctic sedge, for dryness), as well as for other kinds of clothes or for sleeping mats. Reindeer meat is very lean, though, and seals and walruses are probably more useful for getting through harsh winters. Even some white fish, probably.

Diet-wise, the Inuit or Siberian coastal arctic people might be the much better influence, but with Winterwood unnaturally persisting right below the Glacier, theirs is (or used to be) a culture with access to lots of wood useful for all manner of daily life applications, unlike the wood-starved material culture of the Inuit.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

However, reindeer meat is more easily preserved - for those same reason. Reindeer also shed their antlers annually, which makes them a useful resource of horn-derived products.

Bone-derived, really - the material is quite distinct from deer antlers, e.g. useful for harpoons (which deer antlers definitely aren't). But then, whalebone (or other smaller leviathans of the Neliomi and Hudaro) may offer similar qualities.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

In terms of settlements, however, I've previously suggested looking to the Atlantic insular Bronze and Iron age for inspirations. The idea of Yggite longhouses is admittedly a cool one, but it'd also be interesting to see Atlantic roundhouses like the ones at Scara Brae (although these are admittedly neolithic),

Neolithic probably fits the Yggite native culture. I don't think that they have much of a native smithing culture, being rather dependant on trade for metal items, but may be quite familiar with non-metal material to substitute that. The remains of the battle at Tollense Crossing have a mix of metal and stone spear- and arrow-tips.

 

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

or Scottish Brochs:

934f0cfb153f36de2ce1c9a7f9061cf7.jpg

This design has benefits in that it implicitly shows a society preoccupied with defensiveness, as well as reducing wood usage - which is obviously a scarcity, Closing or not.

On the matter of wood scarcity (in pre-red coat Scotland, too) our ideas differ completely.

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Do we actually have accurate weather conditions or climate for the northwestern part of Fronela? Given that there's pine forest right up to the glacier's edge, something weird is definitely going on, regardless. You'd expect more birch (of different kinds), probably some juniper (which is useful for bows or other wooden tools requiring elasticity) and maybe some larch or even alder(?) further south, or in small groups along the coast

I tried to argue that with Jeff, repeatedly, but Greg's source and vision for Winterwood basically is the great, endless expanse of spruce forest between the bison plains and Alaska - the territory the Alaska Highway construction workers had to battle during WW2.

Old World concepts of vegetation often don't quite apply to Glorantha, even though its agriculture is thoroughly Old World.

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On 1/29/2019 at 2:25 PM, Joerg said:

(The absence of Ludoch and prevalence of Ouori on Malkioni coasts makes me regard the mention of Warera and Waertag's wife as "Ludoch" mermaids as one of the potential blunders in the Guide.)

I increasingly suspect those ludoch nations came in from the deep and became walkers ("expelled") whereas most of the ouori stayed home.  This is however somewhere between mystery and blasphemy. Either way, there's room for archaic ouori contacts all the way up the Fronelan coast, they may have shared lore and survival songs in elder days.

Of course even a relatively smart walrus won't have fur but there's probably a lot of ivory on Ygg boats and a lot of blubber helped keep the people from extinction. Undoubtedly a Hero Wars curse in the making . . . you do what you need to do, though.

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9 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

I increasingly suspect those ludoch nations came in from the deep and became walkers ("expelled") whereas most of the ouori stayed home.  This is however somewhere between mystery and blasphemy.

While I agree about those nations coming in from the deep, I do think that we are dealing with (possibly pre-Vadrudi rape) niiads rather than modern merfolk. The modern merfolk are descended from sisters of these ancestresses of humans, but the ancestresses weren't any kind of modern merfolk, and in all likelihood able to keep underwater indeterminately.

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6 minutes ago, Joerg said:

While I agree about those nations coming in from the deep, I do think that we are dealing with (possibly pre-Vadrudi rape) niiads rather than modern merfolk. The modern merfolk are descended from sisters of these ancestresses of humans, but the ancestresses weren't any kind of modern merfolk, and in all likelihood able to keep underwater indeterminately.

An origin that archaic would definitely enhance the evolution shapeshifting process as well as the depth of the sacrifice involved. Hard to say how many great triolini kindreds there really are . . . sort of like saying who "Kahar" was or where zabdamar come from. 

Hoping some bright young person jumps on the patterns of triolini contact before I finish collecting all the relatively low-hanging uh fruit of similar aldryami tutelage. When we all lived in the wet as opposed to when we all lived in the forest.

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8 hours ago, Joerg said:

On the matter of wood scarcity (in pre-red coat Scotland, too) our ideas differ completely.

Scotland aside, I'm curious to see what you mean about wood on Ygg's Isles. Do you mean to say that substantial amounts of wood survived up to the Closing?

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1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Scotland aside, I'm curious to see what you mean about wood on Ygg's Isles. Do you mean to say that substantial amounts of wood survived up to the Closing?

Yes, in the wind shadows, there are bound to have been some effects of living on the fringe of a Great Forest. While those are great for ersatz-logging (as long as you aren't on the lookout for those perfectly bent trees to provide the ribs for your ships and are fine with straight trees only), if these patches are spruce forest, too, they don't have that much to offer as wild pasture. Not even for goats, a lot less so for reindeer.

When  I think of Ygg's Isles, my immediate models are the Vesteralen, with some Lofoten, Steigen and Hebrides tossed into that, but the forest changed to fit Winterwood. I have no familiarity with Vancouver Island and the coast there, but without the high coastal mountain chain, I don't expect that much of the cold rain forest effect there. The Maidstone Mountains are a lot further inland than the Rockies. The Svartisen probably bears some similarity to Valind's glacier, except that Valind's flanks are of ice rather than rock, apart from the wall of rubble and debris that it is pushing ahead. But you probably have to have been there on Polar Circle Norway and further north to appreciate these comments.

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9 hours ago, scott-martin said:

An origin that archaic would definitely enhance the evolution shapeshifting process as well as the depth of the sacrifice involved. Hard to say how many great triolini kindreds there really are . . . sort of like saying who "Kahar" was or where zabdamar come from. 

Yes. With the shape-shifting ability of the niiads, both Warera and Nelarinna may have appeared in the shape that became the pattern for the Ludoch, but it was one of several possible.

I do wonder how much the Swan Maiden motif (sea deities frolicking in an unusual shape while their accoutrements of their normal shape are left aside, then discovered by the groom or rapist) is involved in these sea goddess matings. The story of Hiord bears great similarity to Wayland, but I have seen Chinese variants of such myth which didn't seem to inherit much from the Germanic story, so it could be a way more archaic myth behind this. Possibly one connected to the discoveries of Svante Pääbo's team of palaeo-geneticists.

 

Thrunhin Da(Harantara appears to be an entity not directly descended from Triolina, possibly of the Manti lineage (as far as the Sea Tribe is concerned, never mind the eastern humans).

 

9 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Hoping some bright young person jumps on the patterns of triolini contact before I finish collecting all the relatively low-hanging uh fruit of similar aldryami tutelage. When we all lived in the wet as opposed to when we all lived in the forest.

Merfolk roleplaying doesn't seem to be that popular - the three-dimensional possibilities and the lack of two-dimensional dungeons might make immersion into the story harder for us land-lubbers. It would be interesting to see it done right.

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9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Merfolk roleplaying doesn't seem to be that popular - the three-dimensional possibilities and the lack of two-dimensional dungeons might make immersion into the story harder for us land-lubbers. It would be interesting to see it done right.

Done properly it's the key to Dawn Age Malkionism, taking off their sea skins and colonizing the land. A different kind of "burning their boats."

Maybe I can take it up again soon but the forest has prior claim on my time . . . and to be fair Flamal is secretly a wet god too. 

P.S. There is a cryptic "Hiord" in the early notes. I wonder if the Yggites have him. Didn't people used to think Third Eye Blue came from up here, or is that just the grotarons?

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14 hours ago, Joerg said:

When  I think of Ygg's Isles, my immediate models are the Vesteralen, with some Lofoten, Steigen and Hebrides tossed into that, but the forest changed to fit Winterwood. I have no familiarity with Vancouver Island and the coast there, but without the high coastal mountain chain, I don't expect that much of the cold rain forest effect there. The Maidstone Mountains are a lot further inland than the Rockies. The Svartisen probably bears some similarity to Valind's glacier, except that Valind's flanks are of ice rather than rock, apart from the wall of rubble and debris that it is pushing ahead. But you probably have to have been there on Polar Circle Norway and further north to appreciate these comments.

I lived a year in Inner Troms, and am mostly familiar with the alpine landscape and the coastal areas around Tromsø (and some around Narvik).

On the one hand I see what you mean, but on the other I'm of a split mind. First off, I disagree with the assumption that the settlements along the coast of the Winterwood and Courtwood were only temporary logging camps - I see no particular evidence of that, and even if they were, the question remains whether they would be stuck there during the Closing or whether they'd be able to boat home before they were cut off (Or, well, just die out).

As an aside from this, do we know if the islands were inter-navigable during the Closing like the islands in the Choralintor Bay, Maniria or the Suam Chow? Do we know if the Ban had any additional effect for them?

Now, onto the matter of trees during the Closing - the issue I see is sort of twofold, or maybe threefold. First off, the more people are stuck on the islands requiring the marginal wood for their everyday needs, the more is going to be cut down - so you might end up with an Easter Island situation. On the other hand, the more people are dying off from starvation or other causes during the Closing, the less need for wood there is, so more will regrow. The third follows from this in a sense - the question becomes how much merit you give to the great Forest "osmosis" over to the isles - if very strong, then fine, there will assumedly be something growing up regardless. But if not so strong, it will fall under the influences of human cutting, as well as goat-browsing (who are quite excellent at preventing regrowth in the RW). As mentioned before there is a dynamic to this influence, as goats get slaughtered for food by increasingly desperate Yggites, who are themselves dying off to the point where they are *supposedly* committing cannibalism (or "just" population-control infanticide), that pressure lessens. We also don't know how the Closing or Ban influences this magical forest "osmosis" in itself.

The way I see it, there are a lot of factors here that essentially come down to personal vision and preference.

On the topic of Swan Maidens - in the RW we have the Selkies, who are effectively Seal-maidens (or sometimes seal-men). This seems pretty in tune with the Ouori (although they aren't usually presented as shapeshifters, perhaps their ancestors were, or maybe some of their magical specialists are?)

As for more influences - I thought I'd give a shout to the natives of arctic Asia - more specifically the Koryaks of Kamchatka and Nivkh of Sakhalin. These are notable for actually living in or near large taiga forests perhaps more like the ones imagined by Greg than coastal Norway. Beyond that they also have fascinating material cultures and survival strategies, with a mixture of sedentary and semi-nomadic practices. Not so much agriculture, however. Koryak use of leather lamellar for armor is interesting though. A source of inspiration of metal-starved Yggites? Who's to say. (The one below is actually made of metal, I believe, but most others I've seen have been hardened leather). Their helmets may or may not be made from bone (or walrus tusks) - which is a very convenient parralel to the Bronze Age Mycenaean Boar tusk helmets (pictured below-below).

Koryak_armor.jpeg

Boar_tusk_helmet_from_Athens.jpg

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

As an aside from this, do we know if the islands were inter-navigable during the Closing like the islands in the Choralintor Bay, Maniria or the Suam Chow?
 

I've already posted quotations from Tales #10 to that effect.

 

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4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I lived a year in Inner Troms, and am mostly familiar with the alpine landscape and the coastal areas around Tromsø (and some around Narvik).

I lived a year on Tysfjord...

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

On the one hand I see what you mean, but on the other I'm of a split mind. First off, I disagree with the assumption that the settlements along the coast of the Winterwood and Courtwood were only temporary logging camps - I see no particular evidence of that, and even if they were, the question remains whether they would be stuck there during the Closing or whether they'd be able to boat home before they were cut off (Or, well, just die out).

The Closing wasn't an issue for traveling from Winterwood to Ygg's Isles, but it cut off the islanders from their whaling and seal hunting grounds on the shelf ice. The Ban on the other hand did separate the mainland (which was part of Winterwood) from the archipelago.

 

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

As an aside from this, do we know if the islands were inter-navigable during the Closing like the islands in the Choralintor Bay, Maniria or the Suam Chow? Do we know if the Ban had any additional effect for them?

As far as I know, the isles weren't separated from one another by the Ban. They may not have been affected by it at all (though that wouldn't remove the border mist around Loskalm and Winterwood) as they might be reckoned not a part of Fronela but of the Neliomi Sea.

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Now, onto the matter of trees during the Closing - the issue I see is sort of twofold, or maybe threefold. First off, the more people are stuck on the islands requiring the marginal wood for their everyday needs, the more is going to be cut down - so you might end up with an Easter Island situation.

Not during the Closing, when Winterwood was still freely accessible, but during the Ban when it ceased to be so.

That's still three generations of no access to the hereditary logging grounds and mismanagement of the forests on the bigger islands. The Yggites on the smaller islands would have to find solutions that didn't require wood.

 

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

On the other hand, the more people are dying off from starvation or other causes during the Closing, the less need for wood there is, so more will regrow.

I think that the Closing initially brought lasting malnutrition rather than starvation, with essentials taken from whale oil or seal blubber missing. The resources may have been stretched wisely, or used up at normal speed in Trumpian carelessness, but even so there was an end date where marginal sustainability was broken. Frankly, I am astonished that they still had goats to take on to their new colonies.

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

On the topic of Swan Maidens - in the RW we have the Selkies, who are effectively Seal-maidens (or sometimes seal-men). This seems pretty in tune with the Ouori (although they aren't usually presented as shapeshifters, perhaps their ancestors were, or maybe some of their magical specialists are?)

For a Gloranthan setting a bit further north and a lot colder, I postulated a group of Vadrudi married to selkie shape shifter wives.

I don't think that the Ouori have much of shape-shifting magic to make them any more attractive to even the most touch-starved young adult.

The niiad ancestors did have all the shape-shifting magic they wanted.

4 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

As for more influences - I thought I'd give a shout to the natives of arctic Asia - more specifically the Koryaks of Kamchatka and Nivkh of Sakhalin. These are notable for actually living in or near large taiga forests perhaps more like the ones imagined by Greg than coastal Norway. Beyond that they also have fascinating material cultures and survival strategies, with a mixture of sedentary and semi-nomadic practices. Not so much agriculture, however. Koryak use of leather lamellar for armor is interesting though. A source of inspiration of metal-starved Yggites? Who's to say. (The one below is actually made of metal, I believe, but most others I've seen have been hardened leather). Their helmets may or may not be made from bone (or walrus tusks) - which is a very convenient parralel to the Bronze Age Mycenaean Boar tusk helmets (pictured below-below).

Koryak_armor.jpeg

Boar_tusk_helmet_from_Athens.jpg

I suggested taking a look at the Bjarmen as described by Ottar, so we seem to be fairly close on this topic.

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On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 3:47 PM, Sir_Godspeed said:

In terms of settlements, however, I've previously suggested looking to the Atlantic insular Bronze and Iron age for inspirations. The idea of Yggite longhouses is admittedly a cool one, but it'd also be interesting to see Atlantic roundhouses like the ones at Scara Brae (although these are admittedly neolithic), or Scottish Brochs:

934f0cfb153f36de2ce1c9a7f9061cf7.jpg

These are the basis of the design of the towers Sartar and his descendants built.

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To be honest, by 1625 the Wolf Pirates are mostly NOT Yggites. The Wolf Pirates have Maybe only around third of the Wolf Pirates actually are Yggites. The Wolf Pirates have been voluntarily exiled from the Ygg Islands for over a generation and by now they are a polyglot crew, as soldiers, refugees, outlaws, and adventurers have joined Harrek's fleet. Yggs Islanders now form a relatively small minority of the Wolf Pirates. The lingua franca among the Wolf Pirates is a Theyalan creole made out of a simplified Ygg Islander with strong influences from Rathori and Jonating, Many Wolf Pirates also use Tradetalk. 

They've been based in the Three Step Islands, which are warm year-round. Most of the Wolf Pirates have been to Teshnos, Teleos, Fonrit, etc. and been influenced by those cultures. Probably a good fifth of the Wolf Pirates actually joined during the circumnavigation, so you'll see Maslans, Fonritians, Umathelans, Teshnites, alongside Sartarite adventurers, Nimistori, etc. 

 
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The main island is about 50 miles long and 10 miles wide, so about 500 square miles. or comparable to Rhodes, Lesbos, or Oahu. They are about 300 miles off the coast of Maniria, or comparable to how far the Cape Verde islands are off the coast of Africa. Skullport is the Gloranthan Tortuga, rich and dangerous, filled with pirates. It takes two to four days to sail from Skullport to get to the Troll Straits. 

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On 6/9/2019 at 2:42 PM, Jeff said:

To be honest, by 1625 the Wolf Pirates are mostly NOT Yggites. The Wolf Pirates have Maybe only around third of the Wolf Pirates actually are Yggites. The Wolf Pirates have been voluntarily exiled from the Ygg Islands for over a generation and by now they are a polyglot crew, as soldiers, refugees, outlaws, and adventurers have joined Harrek's fleet. Yggs Islanders now form a relatively small minority of the Wolf Pirates. The lingua franca among the Wolf Pirates is a Theyalan creole made out of a simplified Ygg Islander with strong influences from Rathori and Jonating, Many Wolf Pirates also use Tradetalk. 

They've been based in the Three Step Islands, which are warm year-round. Most of the Wolf Pirates have been to Teshnos, Teleos, Fonrit, etc. and been influenced by those cultures. Probably a good fifth of the Wolf Pirates actually joined during the circumnavigation, so you'll see Maslans, Fonritians, Umathelans, Teshnites, alongside Sartarite adventurers, Nimistori, etc. 

 

Thanks! How many Wolf Pirates are there? The quote from the Guide says:

No one knows how many Wolf Pirates there are, or how many ships. About two dozen Wolf Pirate ships left Loskalm, and although some have been sunk, others have been built, too. Furthermore, at least as many galleys and round ships have since joined the fleet. There may be as many as 30 to 60 ships in all, though they range all along the southern coast, and have so far never all been in one place at the same time.

Is that 30-60 the amount of the whole Wolf Pirate fleet, or only the Three Step Island's fleet. And how big was the circumnavigation fleet, a fifth of that, ie. 6-12?

The rules I've used for Ygg's cult is RQ3's Valind with no Cloud Call or Snow, and getting Summon Undine from Nelarrina and Snow from Valind, and getting access to Fanaticism and Berserk if you've undergone the Ygg's Fury (ruleswise indentical to Valind's Fury). And just undergoing the Fury doesn't make you a priest, you need to pass the normal requirements too. How close is that what you have in mind for Ygg's cult?

e: Is the Ygg's Islands' language a Theyalan language? In the previous edition it wasn't related to any other languages, though I houseruled it to be as close to Stormspeech as other Theyalan languages, ie. 1/10 of the skill.

Edited by Brootse

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1 hour ago, Brootse said:

Thanks! How many Wolf Pirates are there? The quote from the Guide says:

No one knows how many Wolf Pirates there are, or how many ships. About two dozen Wolf Pirate ships left Loskalm, and although some have been sunk, others have been built, too. Furthermore, at least as many galleys and round ships have since joined the fleet. There may be as many as 30 to 60 ships in all, though they range all along the southern coast, and have so far never all been in one place at the same time.

Is that 30-60 the amount of the whole Wolf Pirate fleet, or only the Three Step Island's fleet. And how big was the circumnavigation fleet, a fifth of that, ie. 6-12?

 

There's currently some 60+ Wolf Pirate ships and some 3100+ Wolf Pirates operating out of Three Step Islands. I believe about 40+ ships followed Harrek, and the fleet lost many ships and many crew but the fleet numbered about 60 when it arrived in the Mirrorsea Bay in 1624 About 3000 Wolf Pirates fought at Pennel Ford. Many died, but the Wolf Pirates have more than replenished their losses. There are maybe only about 20 of the original Yggite ships left (which aren't based on Loskalmi ships btw).

 

1 hour ago, Brootse said:

The rules I've used for Ygg's cult is RQ3's Valind with no Cloud Call or Snow, and getting Summon Undine from Nelarrina and Snow from Valind, and getting access to Fanaticism and Berserk if you've undergone the Ygg's Fury (ruleswise indentical to Valind's Fury). And just undergoing the Fury doesn't make you a priest, you need to pass the normal requirements too. How close is that what you have in mind for Ygg's cult?

e: Is the Ygg's Islands' language a Theyalan language? In the previous edition it wasn't related to any other languages, though I houseruled it to be as close to Stormspeech as other Theyalan languages, ie. 1/10 of the skill.

Ygg has Increase Wind, Windwalk, Shield, and Summon Small and Medium Air Elemental. He gets Snow from Valind, some slave Water Elementals, and Summon Large Air Elemental from Orlanth.

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43 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

There's currently some 60+ Wolf Pirate ships and some 3100+ Wolf Pirates operating out of Three Step Islands. I believe about 40+ ships followed Harrek, and the fleet lost many ships and many crew but the fleet numbered about 60 when it arrived in the Mirrorsea Bay in 1624 About 3000 Wolf Pirates fought at Pennel Ford. Many died, but the Wolf Pirates have more than replenished their losses. There are maybe only about 20 of the original Yggite ships left (which aren't based on Loskalmi ships btw).

 

Ygg has Increase Wind, Windwalk, Shield, and Summon Small and Medium Air Elemental. He gets Snow from Valind, some slave Water Elementals, and Summon Large Air Elemental from Orlanth.

Many thanks!

 

e: Windwalk? Is that a new spell from the oncoming Cult book, or did you mean Wind Warp or Flight?

Edited by Brootse

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3 hours ago, Brootse said:

 

e: Windwalk? Is that a new spell from the oncoming Cult book, or did you mean Wind Warp or Flight?

Windwalk has been a Gagarth runespell (Tales of the Reaching Moon #4 for instance).

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12 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Windwalk has been a Gagarth runespell (Tales of the Reaching Moon #4 for instance).

Which shouldn't be surprising. Gagarth is a fellow Vadrudi.

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30 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Windwalk has been a Gagarth runespell (Tales of the Reaching Moon #4 for instance).

Thanks!

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5 hours ago, Jeff said:

There are maybe only about 20 of the original Yggite ships left (which aren't based on Loskalmi ships btw).

Huh, interesting. That's different from what we've heard before, I think.

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3 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Huh, interesting. That's different from what we've heard before, I think.

It is now 1625. The fleet has gone around the world. 

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