Capping Battle Magic like RQ2

[Tywyll]

21 hours ago, womble said:

 

Simple probability, really. I assume in my Glorantha that Spirits have knowledge of various spells, and the higher the magnitude of the spell, the less likely it is for a spirit to know it. Same as people, really. [variablespell]-2 is going to be fairly common, if it's a useful variable spell. The same spell at 10 isn't. It's probably some Maxwell-Boltzman shape on the frequency curve, with the peak at 3-4.

The point I was making is that there is nothing I have read in the rules that suggests things are rarer or not rarer. If they are uncapped, how difficult it is to find X level spirits isn't spelt out. Sure, in your Glorantha it might work that way, and maybe that's RQ3 influence, but in RQG? Are they limited? Who knows? We certainly do not at this point*.

*Unless I've missed something in the core or bestiary somewhere. 

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, Tywyll said:

The point I was making is that there is nothing I have read in the rules that suggests things are rarer or not rarer. If they are uncapped, how difficult it is to find X level spirits isn't spelt out. Sure, in your Glorantha it might work that way, and maybe that's RQ3 influence, but in RQG? Are they limited? Who knows? We certainly do not at this point*.

*Unless I've missed something in the core or bestiary somewhere. 

Generally the problem with getting higher point spells is that fewer spirits are capable of knowing them, due to the higher INT/CHA required. Yes, this is partially from RQ3, but is also partially just an extension of logical reasoning. Namely that high characteristics are rarer than average characteristics.

The key factor is is just what is considered an average INT/CHA for a spirit. If it's 10 or higher then Bladesharp 10 might be readily available, and potentially half of the spirits that know Bladesharp could potentially know it at 10. But, if the average is lower, as would seem to be the case. Now RQ3's Summon Encounter Table (Magic Book, p.54) would indicate that sprirts capable of store Bladesharp 10 are rare. However, RQ2 Spirit Contact Table (RQ2 Classic Edition p. 46) paints a different picture, with around one third of spirits having a high enough INT to do so. 

I haven't seen the equivalent Spirit Encounter Table in RQG. If there is one, maybe someone can look it over and see how rare a CHA 10+ spirit is in RQG? 

[g33k]

It's also worth noting that "uncapped" means "uncapped" -- why not Bladesharp 11?  Or 20?

I presume "Cult Spirits" to largely know the spells (at the levels) their God/dess want them to know, much the way spear/shield are taught to soldiers in a phalanx unit, bow to soldiers in an archery unit, etc.

No idea about spells known by unaffiliated spirits -- why WOULD they know ANY material-world spells like Bladesharp?  Ever?  What use or purpose does it have FOR THEM?

I dunno...

Edited February 9, 2019 by g33k
Typo

[soltakss]

In the olden days, Spell Spirits were the remnant of people's souls that had been ripped apart, or they were the leftovers of a deity's being. So, they would have had a portion of a deity's magic. Lower INT Spirits have lesser magic, higher INT spirits had more magic and so on. Spell Spirits might just have had 1D6 INT, which automatically restricts the size of the spell they have.

For me, higher INT Spirits are those especially sacred to their cults and would be in carefully guarded sanctuaries, or be difficult to find.

As to why normal spirits would know Bladesharp, it's because the deities that fought it out had chunks knocked off them and they contained magic. So, Humakt would generate Bladesharp or Parry Spirits, for example.

[styopa]

49 minutes ago, g33k said:

It's also worth noting that "uncapped" means "uncapped" -- why not Bladesharp 11?  Or 20?

I presume "Cult Spirits" to largely know the spells (at the levels) their God/dess want them to know, much the way spear/shield are taught to soldiers in a phalanx unit, bow to soldiers in an archery unit, etc.

No idea about spells known by unaffiliated spirits -- why WOULD they know ANY material-world spells like Bladesharp?  Ever?  What use or purpose does it have FOR THEM?

I dunno...

It's why, I presume, the mechanic of having to 'learn' the spell from a spirit was implemented; it was naturally a gate against characters gaining powerful spells without having to climb their way there and, ultimately even finding them (iirc spell spirits strength capped what they could know, meaning it was a vanishingly small chance of encountering/summoning one powerful enough to have the super-spirit spells - of course, I could be misremembering).

[Atgxtg]

1 hour ago, styopa said:

It's why, I presume, the mechanic of having to 'learn' the spell from a spirit was implemented; it was naturally a gate against characters gaining powerful spells without having to climb their way there and, ultimately even finding them (iirc spell spirits strength capped what they could know, meaning it was a vanishingly small chance of encountering/summoning one powerful enough to have the super-spirit spells - of course, I could be misremembering).

Yeah, it's also why there probably isn't a spirit with  Bladesharp 100 floating around in the Spirit Plane. It would take a being with an incredibly high INT/CHA, and would undoubtedly be a powerful entity.  

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

As to why normal spirits would know Bladesharp, it's because the deities that fought it out had chunks knocked off them and they contained magic. So, Humakt would generate Bladesharp or Parry Spirits, for example.

Probably. The spells had to originate from somewhere. So there probably is or at least was a cap on spells based on the original source. I suspect these caps probably vary from spell to spell based on the power of the original spirit/deity responsible for the spell. 

[g33k]

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

In the olden days, Spell Spirits were the remnant of people's souls that had been ripped apart, or they were the leftovers of a deity's being. So, they would have had a portion of a deity's magic. Lower INT Spirits have lesser magic, higher INT spirits had more magic and so on. Spell Spirits might just have had 1D6 INT, which automatically restricts the size of the spell they have.

For me, higher INT Spirits are those especially sacred to their cults and would be in carefully guarded sanctuaries, or be difficult to find.

As to why normal spirits would know Bladesharp, it's because the deities that fought it out had chunks knocked off them and they contained magic. So, Humakt would generate Bladesharp or Parry Spirits, for example.

Hrm.  "... Spell Spirits were the remnant of people's souls that had been ripped apart, or they were the leftovers of a deity's being..."

I guess that works, if you posit a category of "spell spirit" (from whom you learn spells, and no other spirit).  It "feels wrong" to me -- very mechanistic, not at all Gloranthan.  I can imagine it as ONE SOURCE of spells (well, two sources:  (1) fragments of god/great-spirit entities, & (2) ghost/soul-remnants).

But IMG there must be many other sources of spells, too... 

 

As for this:  " ... because the deities that fought it out had chunks knocked off them and they contained magic. So, Humakt would generate Bladesharp or Parry Spirits ..." it creates an image in my mind:

Champion:  "I'm gonna need a Parry-15 to take on that Lunar Duelist Assassin."

Wise Old Teacher:  "Here.  You're gonna need this."  <hands over a silver warhammer>

Champion:  "You have a Parry-15 Matrix in this warhammer??!?"

Wise Old Teacher:  "Nah.  It's Yanafil Tarnils warhammer.  Go whack on Humakt for a while, see if you can knock that spell loose."

Edited February 9, 2019 by g33k