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Tywyll

BRP and BRP Adjacent Power Systems?

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8 hours ago, Tywyll said:

I am working on a campaign that I'll hopefully get to run in the next few months. It's primarily non-Glorantha Runequest. I'm looking for a magic system to fill the void of Sorcery, but I'm not finding anything that quite fits what I want. So I've been looking through all the power systems for BRP that I know of. These are the ones I have found or have at least heard of. Are there any I have missed? This can include somebody's homebrew that's on the web or whatever.

BRP
Wizardry
Sorcery (Also Elric Magic and Magic World Magic, including Necromancy)
Psionics
Superpowers
Mutations
Enlightened Magic
Magic Kung-fu (Swords of Cydoria)
Biomancy (Swords of Cydoria)
Witchcraft (I think there is a monograph about this? Don't know if I'm getting confused or how its different from any other system)

Stormbringer/Elric/Magic World
Summoning/Binding
Eastern Magic

Runequest
Battle/Spirit Magic
Divine Magic
Sorcery
Enchantment/Summoning
Sandy's Sorcery
RQ4 Sorcery
RQG Sorcery 

Call of Cthulhu
Mythos Magic 

MRQ/Legends
Rune Magic (Battle Magic)
Divine Magic
Sorcery (1st and 2nd edition)
Dragon Magic
Necromancy
Blood Magic
Elementalism

RQ6/Mythras
Folk Magic
Divine Magic
Sorcery
Mysticism
Classic Fantasy Magic

White Dwarf
Demon Summoning

Revolution d100
Various power systems 

 

What are your thoughts on Stormbringers Eastern Magic? Also there is the Magic World Advanced Sorcey.

Also what about Classic Fantasy?

Edited by rsanford

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1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

It does function. It just might not be functioning the way you want it to. 

Or the way the main setting it was designed for does. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

 

Special successes, such as slashes, crushes and impales come up 20% of the time. Then there is the STR/SIZ dfamage bonus and magical enhancements such as bladesharp. So the guy with 19 armor should have a lot to worry about.

20% of the time? Only if everyone you face has 100%+ Skills. 

And why? A broadsword does 1d8+1 and usually +1d4. Versus average soldiers (per RQ modules) even experienced soldiers rarely have a Bladesharp higher than 4. That's 17 damage without a special. So...no, he really doesn't. Yes, there are other weapons, but the common ones fall around there. A guy with a greatsword is a potential threat, but him hitting max damage is less likely (3 dice to max out). 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Yeah, that is the problem with die adds. I think the original dagger damage of 1D6 was better. 

Part of the difficulty here has to do with how damage is handled in general. In most RPGs damage either drops you outright, impairs you in some way, or can be ignored. In real life, someone who can "fight off attackers" could bleed to death a while later. But you don't get stuff like that in most RPGs. 

That's fair, and I don't want Rolemaster levels of complexity, but neither do I want brittle characters. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

One idea I had, a long time ago, was to reduce the weapon damages and just double the damage die per success level. So a weapon might do 1D4 or 1D6 or a normal success, 2D4/2D6 on a special, and 4D4/4D6 on a critical. Damage bonus modified the die size rolled. So someone who had a +1D4 db would just roll a die one step larger.  The idea was that most weapons wouldn't do much damage on minor hits and glancing blows, but would get deadly when they connected in a vital spot (i.e. rolled a better success level). The orgnial version had another success level too, and I was debating between 1D/2D/3D/4D and 1D/2D/4D/8D.

That's an interesting idea. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

 

 

Well that's a false expectation on two levels:

First off in RQ being experienced doesn't make you any more resilient. The idea isn''t that someone can take a hit that they couldn't before (as in D&D) but that they will be better able to prevent such a hit from occurring in the first place, than to improved dodge and parry scores. I once had a group of D&D players who constantly got butchered in RQ because they kept trying to judge encounters according to D&D standards-namely that a fight wasn't a "good fight" unless they had taken at least half their hit points in damage. In RQ, if you are getting knocked down to half hit points, you're in trouble. 

Secondly, people think that as their characters get more experienced they will find it easier to survive. That's not entirely true. What happens in play is that as the PCs get more experienced they end up facing more dangerous opponents. So lethality increases. A Runelord is more liekly to die from a lucky crtical hit than a novice, becuase his oppoents have a better chance of rolling a higher success level. 

Facing greater threats isn't unique to RQ. But I think the instant death factor is (shared slightly with RM). 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

THat's something that Greg said a longf time ago. If you want something differernt you will either half to houserule it or play something else, such as HeroQuest.

Sure it does, depending on the style of play. If you want to do a full time dungeon crawl, then you are going to have a lot of casualties. Yes, magic can offset a lot of thins and bring people back from the dead, but basically that's RQ/BRP. There is always a slight chance that a lucky hit will kill off a PC. 

I don't care about lucky hits and crits taking characters out. I'm talking about general survivability and the ability to emulate the source material with heroes that can take on armies. That's as much a part of Glorantha and by extension RQ, though the fluff never matched the crunch. Wanting it to square up is not a bad thing. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

I know some people who play D&D that dislike RQ because of this, and like you think that it doesn't d well for long term play. I know other people who prefer RQ and Pendragon for Long term play because they find such danger to keep the game exciting. They consider "balanced" encounters to be boring because they know that there is no significant risk and they can fiogure out what the outcome is going to be before they even start the encounter. 

I'm not talking about Combat as Sport. I prefer Combat as War. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

What must it be "balanced"? You seem to have strong ideas of how a RPG should be designed, and that RQ/BRP isn't designed that way. If that's the case, why do you want to play it? If "balance" is important to you, why not play an RPG that is designed to be balanced, as opposed to one that isn't? 

Balance may be the wrong word choice. Usable? Satisfying? Playable? A magic system where casters get one spell a day and, unlike DND, that spell isn't guarenteed to end a fight, is not a well designed one. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

But, I'll warn you now that your results won't meet your expectations, because this system is designed to be more lethal than what you are expecting. There no steady decline in hit points like in D&D. If you don't like that, then you're really not going to like the the way the game plays. 

Except, in some versions there is. Strengthening Enchantment added to total HP is one way, long term to, to provide more survivability to a character. Hell, you even have the BGB Heroic character optional rule (double HP). So, let's stop acting like I'm the only one who's ever had these thoughts or concerns. 

And dude, you can quit telling me how BRP plays. I've played RQ, CoC, and Stormbringer since the 80's on and off. I know what it does and doesn't do. I also know that its a flexible system that many have molded and twisted to do different things. So I will continue to look and see if someone has come up to answers to my own issues with the system. Feel free to stop asking me not to. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, RosenMcStern said:

We are working on some streamlining. On the other hand, the system is designed to mix well only with OpenQuest and Legend / Mythras. Using it with classic BRP may require more tweaking.

Any hope on a breakdown of how it works for dumbdumbs like me?

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48 minutes ago, Raleel said:

Additionally, Luther Arkwright has a Psionics system that is single skill based and a little simpler than the core book ones. M-Space has one as well, and they are different. After the Vampire Wars has half-fae mutations, which are functionally powers. Mythras also has Gifts and chaos blessings which aren't really sorcery-like at all, but more powers. 

Gifts and Blessings? How do those work?

48 minutes ago, Raleel said:

You could do something like Classic Fantasy for their traveling spells and Sorcery for rituals. Essentially, one for the tower one for the road.

Thats an interesting idea.

48 minutes ago, Raleel said:

I would point out that no warrior is shrugging off Wrack or Magic Missile or Fireball or Lightning Bolt. Or frankly Theism's Lightning.

Why not? Does Mythras reduce potential AP dramatically? I know the attack spells are very low damage out put. Though admittedly fireball is armor piercing and I think Lightning ignores metal armor?

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43 minutes ago, rsanford said:

What are your thoughts on Stormbringers Eastern Magic? Also there is the Magic World Advanced Sorcey.

Also what about Classic Fantasy?

Wasn't Advanced Sorcery just rehashing the magic from Elric (like the stuff from Bronze Grimoire)?

I like the Eastern Magic ideas, but it is so vague I think it would take a lot of work to sell it and run it with players. I will check out the file in the Download section that has a more advanced version of it. 

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1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Or the way the main setting it was designed for does. 

Except that the setting wasn't really "designed" that way. Greg has Glorantha and decided to use RQ to simulate it. Later on he said that it RQ wasn't that good a fit, as as the creator of Glorantha he'd be the one to know. So RQ never really matched up with how things work in Glorantha and never really will. 

 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

20% of the time? Only if everyone you face has 100%+ Skills. 

One out of five hits, to be more percise, athlough once you factorin for number of oppoents, modfiers and magic, your still come close to a special every five rounds or so.  

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

And why? A broadsword does 1d8+1 and usually +1d4. Versus average soldiers (per RQ modules) even experienced soldiers rarely have a Bladesharp higher than 4. That's 17 damage without a special. So...no, he really doesn't. Yes, there are other weapons, but the common ones fall around there. A guy with a greatsword is a potential threat, but him hitting max damage is less likely (3 dice to max out). 

Have you played RQ/BRPO much? For a character to have 19 armor up is very rare, and he is supposed to be very tough for average and experienced warriors to hurt. Those hits that you are dismissing as bouncing off armor can knock a guy down, giving his opponents bonuses, and those special and crticasl come up often enough.

The thing is this isn't like D&D where characters get whittled down, instead someone gets taken out of a fight with a serious wound. Now after years of playing RQ and related game systems I can say that it works. It might not work the way you want it to, but it does work. TO get it to work the way you want it to you would have to do a major overhaul of the entire system.

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

That's fair, and I don't want Rolemaster levels of complexity, but neither do I want brittle characters. 

THen don't play RQ. It's pretty much the poster child for Brittle characters. You might want to look at BRP and Classic Fantasy, where they increase hit points to better fit the D&D model. Truth be told most people don't fight on for very long or very well with anything more than a minor injury. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

That's an interesting idea. 

Yeah it is. I'm toying around with a BRP variant that uses it. My goal is to keep the lethality for good hits, but allow for more nicks and bruises from glancing strikes. Flashing Blades did something along those lines with the average  strike doing 2 points, but adding a damage die for a hit below half skill.  It allowed a game similar to RQ to work without heavy armor or shields. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Facing greater threats isn't unique to RQ. But I think the instant death factor is (shared slightly with RM). 

Yes, and it is a design of the system. RQ was built off of experiences in the SCA simulating combat. It's not the heroic combat model typical of most RPGs, and it probably doesn't mirror combat in Glorantha all that well. 

 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

I don't care about lucky hits and crits taking characters out. I'm talking about general survivability and the ability to emulate the source material with heroes that can take on armies. That's as much a part of Glorantha and by extension RQ, though the fluff never matched the crunch. Wanting it to square up is not a bad thing. 

Yeah, but RQ just never worked that way. If you want a single hero to be able to take on armies, like Harrek, either don't use RQ, or give him really high skills (his RQ3 weapon skills are at levels I never saw people reach in acutal play), and expect him to waltz through anything short of a crtical hit.  

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

I'm not talking about Combat as Sport. I prefer Combat as War. 

Fine then deal with the consequences. Heroic PCs will ingore a lot of minor hits until they take a critical and drop dead. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Balance may be the wrong word choice. Usable? Satisfying? Playable? A magic system where casters get one spell a day and, unlike DND, that spell isn't guarenteed to end a fight, is not a well designed one. 

Sorry but that's just your opinion on what is well designed.I've seen quite a few games where sepll casters have limited magic and it wasn''t a design flaw, but it is a feature of the game or setting. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Except, in some versions there is. Strengthening Enchantment added to total HP is one way, long term to, to provide more survivability to a character. Hell, you even have the BGB Heroic character optional rule (double HP). So, let's stop acting like I'm the only one who's ever had these thoughts or concerns. 

Yes, but Strengthing Enchanment and such wasn't all that common. Basically you are pushing the envelope and unhappy with the results. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

And dude, you can quit telling me how BRP plays. I've played RQ, CoC, and Stormbringer since the 80's on and off. I know what it does and doesn't do. I also know that its a flexible system that many have molded and twisted to do different things.

Well, if you know what it does and doesn't do, then you should be aware that "nickel and dime" type wounding was not a design feature in the vast majority of version and variants. Only Superworld and the BRG Heroic Character option (something that didn't get used in any iteration of BRP previously. Yes, Pendragon did use it but it also increased weapon damage so it was a zero sum change).Combat in RQ, CoC and Strombinger is all quick and lethal. 

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

So I will continue to look and see if someone has come up to answers to my own issues with the system. Feel free to stop asking me not to. 

Feel free, but anybody who wanted the results that you want probably would have just used a system that was already designed to yield those results, rather than try to force BRP to work that way.

For example, someone who wanted to run superhero campaign, with high powered characters would probably have an easier time of it using a superhero RPG than by trying to adapt BRP. If the Hulk punched a normal person in BRP, that normal person would be dead, and that's not how it works in the comics. 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Gifts and Blessings? How do those work?

Thats an interesting idea.

Why not? Does Mythras reduce potential AP dramatically? I know the attack spells are very low damage out put. Though admittedly fireball is armor piercing and I think Lightning ignores metal armor?

  1. Gifts and Blessings - just straight powers. You get something like Nightvision or burrowing or something else. 
  2. Well, they won't be struggling off Wrack or Magic Missile or Fireball or Lightning Bolt Theism's Lightning because they don't get much armor against them. Wrack is half armor, magic missile is no armor no dodge, fireball is half armor and will set you on fire and no armor against that. Lightning Bolt offers no armor, and can set you on fire. Lighting offers very high damage AND no armor.

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Download Gods of Law and check out the Virtues system. Much different than Stormbringer.

Also Corum: Chaotic Melds, Contrivances, Fetishes, Elemental Tattoos.

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Since HarnMaster is pretty close to being a BRP game have you considered the magic rules in there?

Or if you want the perfect rules then adapt Ars Magica - five skills for technique and ten for forms - it worked for me :)

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On 2/16/2019 at 1:26 AM, Raleel said:
  1. Gifts and Blessings - just straight powers. You get something like Nightvision or burrowing or something else. 

Ah right, the old Cult Powers from Elric Mongoose. Got it.

On 2/16/2019 at 1:26 AM, Raleel said:
  1. Well, they won't be struggling off Wrack or Magic Missile or Fireball or Lightning Bolt Theism's Lightning because they don't get much armor against them. Wrack is half armor, magic missile is no armor no dodge, fireball is half armor and will set you on fire and no armor against that. Lightning Bolt offers no armor, and can set you on fire. Lighting offers very high damage AND no armor.

Ah okay, that's cool. Thanks!

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On 2/16/2019 at 6:39 PM, Chaot said:

Download Gods of Law and check out the Virtues system. Much different than Stormbringer.

Also Corum: Chaotic Melds, Contrivances, Fetishes, Elemental Tattoos.

Is that the third party Corum or was there one from Mongoose? I have (had?) a copy of that but haven't seen it in ages. I remember it has a sort of a variation on Virtues from Stormbringer but I don't recall the other stuff you mentioned. Thanks for reminding me!

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On 2/16/2019 at 7:03 PM, Sigtrygg said:

Since HarnMaster is pretty close to being a BRP game have you considered the magic rules in there?

Or if you want the perfect rules then adapt Ars Magica - five skills for technique and ten for forms - it worked for me :)

I'll admit that I have zero familiarity with Harn other than it being the big weird simulationist game on the block. It was always too expensive for what it was for me to really investigate it. And god, the PDFs are so expensive. But if you can point me at the bare minimum I would need to grok it I might give it a go.

I would LOVE to see your house rules... 😍

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7 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Is that the third party Corum or was there one from Mongoose?

The Corum stuff was from an Australian company called Darcsyde. Well worth looking into. The Virtue stuff is from our own esteemed Charles Green.

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I use a few magic systems which I've cobbled together from other games but they suit my style of play and probably not yours (entirely). I play mostly a low-power magic world, so that will turn you off. However I do like strategic and long-term spell casting, and these are not in your list so that might interest you.

1. The Maelstrom magic system from a little game from the 80s. Freeform and based on probability. No pre-written spells, just desired effects and influencing the chance of them happening. Effects are more subtle because 'natural' events are more likely (and therefore easier to cast) than unnatural ones.

2. An adaptation of ICE/Rolemaster's Spell Law for BRP. This would work for any third party spell list with levelled spells.

3. A 1980s board game called Magic Realm used an interesting magic system based on magical colours which were sources of power for particular types of spells. The colours could occur 'naturally' in certain places or times, and where one was present all spells requiring that particular colour could be cast. Portable versions of the colours could also be created by spell casters by locking up some of their power; they could be used to power spells later. Also some artifacts were sources of one colour or another. This system allows for arbitrarily powerful magic, but only in the presence of the right colour, requiring some forward-planning by would-be sorcerers.

 

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2 hours ago, Questbird said:

I use a few magic systems which I've cobbled together from other games but they suit my style of play and probably not yours (entirely). I play mostly a low-power magic world, so that will turn you off. However I do like strategic and long-term spell casting, and these are not in your list so that might interest you.

I happily use Spell Law in my BRP games. I treat each spell list as a particular magical skill, which can increase with use as normal. To cast a spell you roll your skill - (spell level x5%). Magic point cost is the spell level if it works, or 1 if it doesn't. As your skill increases in each list you automatically gain access to the harder spells in the list. Works quite nicely, and the diversity of the spell lists allows you to make very different spell casters.

For Channeling spells (equivalent of Runequest Divine spells) they automatically work. The magic point cost is 1 from the caster and the rest from Allegiance points to your god (go do some deeds your deity approves of to get more).

 For Mentalism spells there's no magic point cost. You use (POW - spell level) x5 to see if it works. If it doesn't you get more and more Fatigued, as per BGB p.32 (except I added one level). If you want to learn to cast the most powerful Mentalism spells in Spell Law you'd better work on increasing your POW.

Fatigue levels:

Psychically drained: Mentalism skill rolls Difficult
Tired: All skill rolls Difficult (equiv. CONx3 rounds of physical exertion)
Spent: Stamina roll required for any activity; skills at one quarter normal (equiv. CONx4 rounds of physical exertion)
Exhausted: Difficult Stamina roll for any activity; skills max = POW x 1 (equiv. CONx10 rounds of physical exertion)

Thanks for sharing that! I'm extremely interested in your Spell Law conversion. Some questions though-

1) Learning Spells-What breakpoint are spells picked up in your system? 1 every 5% I assume?

2) How do Channelers and Mentalists learn spells if they aren't linked to a skill?

3) Please oh please tell me you have some notes on converting specific spells to BRP!

4) Did you use bonuses and penalties straight? I.e. if a SL spell gave you a +10 that was a +10% in BRP?

5) How did you handle damage spells?

6) How did you handle spells that inflict X Crit instead of damage?

7) Was their any mechanic governing difficulty in learning the different spell lists? For example, were Open Lists easier to learn/advance faster than Closed lists?

😎 While I balk at the straight 1 to 1 PP, that actually fits RM2 for average casters (at least beginning characters who probably only get 1 PP per level). Did you convert things like Spell Multipliers and Daily devices?

I have a lot of love for RM...even if the system is terribly slow and clunky and I would probably never run it again. Still, the character options and magic system was always a bright spot for me. 

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On 2/16/2019 at 6:39 PM, Chaot said:

Download Gods of Law and check out the Virtues system. Much different than Stormbringer.

Also Corum: Chaotic Melds, Contrivances, Fetishes, Elemental Tattoos.

Dug it up and saw what you meant. I had totally forgotten about Chaotic Melds (probably because they never struck me as that usable in play...1d8 rounds to prepare a spell that might only last a few rounds as well). However, it has some interesting ideas. Thanks for reminding me. If you put in some sort of method of attuning to melds (so they could be cast freely) AND kept the summoning melds you would end up with a nice Ars Magica divide of Rotes and Spontaneous Magic. Maybe you could learn a Meld by sacrificing a POW, probably make the spells not instant but instead take 1 SR per MP. Also have to  standardise the duration somehow. 

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16 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Thanks for sharing that! I'm extremely interested in your Spell Law conversion. Some questions though-

1) Learning Spells-What breakpoint are spells picked up in your system? 1 every 5% I assume?

The skill gives you access to the whole spell list, so as your skill increases to the level that you could cast it you gain access to it. You get -5% to cast per level of the spell so yes you are correct that it's one level of spells per 5% of skill increase.

2) How do Channelers and Mentalists learn spells if they aren't linked to a skill?

They know all the spells in their list; they just need the power to cast them; either from their deity for Channelers or from their inner resources for mentalists. I haven't had the problem of Channelers trying to get many lists with low skills. Channelers' access to lists on character creation would be limited by their deity anyway.

3) Please oh please tell me you have some notes on converting specific spells to BRP!

Not really. 😜 I have usually played it by ear. In practice, my players have cast spells < lvl 10 which tend to be relatively low-powered so I've just allowed them as written.

4) Did you use bonuses and penalties straight? I.e. if a SL spell gave you a +10 that was a +10% in BRP?

Yes, pretty much.

5) How did you handle damage spells?

6) How did you handle spells that inflict X Crit instead of damage?

I haven't had to rule on these much but there are a few Rolemaster-Runequest damage conversion rules around (Creatures and Treasures I think has a conversion chart at the back of the book).

7) Was their any mechanic governing difficulty in learning the different spell lists? For example, were Open Lists easier to learn/advance faster than Closed lists?

No, I allowed any lists on character creation (remember, each list is a skill which requires points allocation) as long as the player could justify it. The nice thing about this system is that no two sorcerers will be exactly the same. Learning new lists in play would rely on access to appropriate teachers/cults/tomes etc. so it might be more restricted.

😎 While I balk at the straight 1 to 1 PP, that actually fits RM2 for average casters (at least beginning characters who probably only get 1 PP per level). Did you convert things like Spell Multipliers and Daily devices?

I haven't needed to.

I have a lot of love for RM...even if the system is terribly slow and clunky and I would probably never run it again. Still, the character options and magic system was always a bright spot for me.

I never played RM though I collected some of the books. But the diversity of the spell lists is appealing and works well for me in my campaigns.

 
 

 

Edited by Questbird
more info about Channelers

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16 hours ago, Questbird said:

Thanks for sharing that! I'm extremely interested in your Spell Law conversion. Some questions though-

1) Learning Spells-What breakpoint are spells picked up in your system? 1 every 5% I assume?

The skill gives you access to the whole spell list, so as your skill increases to the level that you could cast it you gain access to it. You get -5% to cast per level of the spell so yes you are correct that it's one level of spells per 5% of skill increase.

So you can attempt any spell as soon as you have the skill? 

Quote

2) How do Channelers and Mentalists learn spells if they aren't linked to a skill?

They know all the spells in their list; they just need the power to cast them; either from their deity for Channelers or from their inner resources for mentalists. I haven't had the problem of Channelers trying to get many lists with low skills. Channelers' access to lists on character creation would be limited by their deity anyway.

Do Channelers and Mentalists actually use spell list skills? 

Quote

3) Please oh please tell me you have some notes on converting specific spells to BRP!

Not really. 😜 I have usually played it by ear. In practice, my players have cast spells < lvl 10 which tend to be relatively low-powered so I've just allowed them as written.

How did you do spells that inflict crits? Like a spell to make a weapon do a flaming crit of equal severity?

Quote

4) Did you use bonuses and penalties straight? I.e. if a SL spell gave you a +10 that was a +10% in BRP?

Yes, pretty much.

Awesome

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5) How did you handle damage spells?

6) How did you handle spells that inflict X Crit instead of damage?

I haven't had to rule on these much but there are a few Rolemaster-Runequest damage conversion rules around (Creatures and Treasures I think has a conversion chart at the back of the book).

Darn. Okay, I'll check my copy.

Edit-Upon checking, there are only guidelines for converting RQ monsters into RM ones. There is no guidance on what to do with their damage. :(

So what would you do for a shock bolt? Fire bolt? Fire Ball? Do you just let Heal X Heal that many HP (because clearly the 1d10, 3d10, etc is out of whack for BRP).

Quote

7) Was their any mechanic governing difficulty in learning the different spell lists? For example, were Open Lists easier to learn/advance faster than Closed lists?

No, I allowed any lists on character creation (remember, each list is a skill which requires points allocation) as long as the player could justify it. The nice thing about this system is that no two sorcerers will be exactly the same. Learning new lists in play would rely on access to appropriate teachers/cults/tomes etc. so it might be more restricted.

Ah, so did you ditch the idea of 'class lists'? Like could a Essence user learn any Essence list (Magician, DAbbler, etc). Oh, and how did you handle Hybrid and Semi-spell users?

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😎 While I balk at the straight 1 to 1 PP, that actually fits RM2 for average casters (at least beginning characters who probably only get 1 PP per level). Did you convert things like Spell Multipliers and Daily devices?

I haven't needed to.

Okay.

Quote

I have a lot of love for RM...even if the system is terribly slow and clunky and I would probably never run it again. Still, the character options and magic system was always a bright spot for me.

I never played RM though I collected some of the books. But the diversity of the spell lists is appealing and works well for me in my campaigns.

It's a system that has awesome character creation but where combat can be interminally slow (unless you luck out and get a fatal or incapacitating crit).

Edited by Tywyll
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On 2/20/2019 at 2:40 AM, Tywyll said:

I had totally forgotten about Chaotic Melds (probably because they never struck me as that usable in play...1d8 rounds to prepare a spell that might only last a few rounds as well). However, it has some interesting ideas. Thanks for reminding me. If you put in some sort of method of attuning to melds (so they could be cast freely) AND kept the summoning melds you would end up with a nice Ars Magica divide of Rotes and Spontaneous Magic. Maybe you could learn a Meld by sacrificing a POW, probably make the spells not instant but instead take 1 SR per MP. Also have to  standardise the duration somehow. 

There's the additional issue of players deciding how the melds will work together. If you use it, I would suggest sitting down with the players and going over what's possible. I also like how Chaos points add to you MP total.

That being said, go read Gods of Law if you haven't yet. Awesome stuff.

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5 hours ago, Chaot said:

There's the additional issue of players deciding how the melds will work together. If you use it, I would suggest sitting down with the players and going over what's possible. I also like how Chaos points add to you MP total.

That being said, go read Gods of Law if you haven't yet. Awesome stuff.

I actually have physical copies of both GoL and GoC!  I missed using your Allegiance as MP... that's cool. I don't recall GoL having much in it though (for magic I mean, it had lots of awesome otherwise and didn't it have mook rules?). 

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On 2/21/2019 at 6:48 PM, Tywyll said:

So you can attempt any spell as soon as you have the skill?

 

Yes, and if you have some method of increasing your skill, you gain access to the appropriate spells.

On 2/21/2019 at 6:48 PM, Tywyll said:

Do Channelers and Mentalists actually use spell list skills? 

 

Mentalists do: they use the skill as a chance to 'cast' the mentalism effect as normal; they just don't use Magic Points to power them. Channelers, not so much. They need the basics of the skill (maybe 10%) but most of the work comes from the deity. If you think that makes the skill worthless, an alternate way of doing it might be to make an Allegiance check to your deity to cast the spell, adding the skill level to the check. It depends on how powerful divine magic is in your world.

On 2/21/2019 at 6:48 PM, Tywyll said:

Edit-Upon checking, there are only guidelines for converting RQ monsters into RM ones. There is no guidance on what to do with their damage. :(

So what would you do for a shock bolt? Fire bolt? Fire Ball? Do you just let Heal X Heal that many HP (because clearly the 1d10, 3d10, etc is out of whack for BRP).

 

Hmm. Sorry I haven't had to rule on these.

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On 2/21/2019 at 2:48 AM, Tywyll said:

So what would you do for a shock bolt? Fire bolt? Fire Ball? Do you just let Heal X Heal that many HP (because clearly the 1d10, 3d10, etc is out of whack for BRP).

That's the issue with upping the magical damage for "balance". A 5D6 damage attack in D&D or RM isn't anywhere near as lethal as a 5D6 attack in BRP. 

 

What I think you probably would need to do is to make this idea work for you would be to :

1) Increase the rate that spellcaster recover Magic Points they can cast more  often during the adventure

2) Increase the number of magic points available (maybe 2xPOW or POW+CON)

3) You might want to implement some sort of increasing/doubling cost for spells so that spellcasters can cast minor spells all day, but powerful spells leave them drained for a bit. From what I've read, you seem to want the spellcasters to be able to hold thier own against the warriors, but not to be able to nuke them at leisure. 

4) Maybe as a simplification of some of the above you could let caster use a certain amount if MPs for free and then pay for higher powered spells? So a spellcaster could use fire to light a pipe all day long, but a big fireball would cost.

 

 

 

 

As fas as converting from RM goes:

Compare the Damage of spells on the attack table to the arms law weapons tables to find a match or at least a relationship and use the damage of matching weapon in BRP. For instance the Fire Bolt table delivers damage that seems to be a little less than a RM Greatsword (BRP 2D8), but more than most polearms (varies but in BRP 2D6, 2D6+2, or 3D6). So maybe 2D6+3

Healing in RM is generally in increments of D10s, so 1D10= 1 hp in BRP

 

Edited by Atgxtg
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On 2/25/2019 at 2:46 AM, Questbird said:

Hmm. Sorry I haven't had to rule on these.

Ah, okay... but if you had to, what do you think you would do? 

For the healing I would say that Heal X would heal X points. That's easy enough.

Still not sure about the attack spells, Crit spells (possibly Pow v Pow, damage that ignores armor...maybe 1d3 per letter grade?). 

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On 2/27/2019 at 2:41 AM, Tywyll said:

Still not sure about the attack spells, Crit spells (possibly Pow v Pow, damage that ignores armor...maybe 1d3 per letter grade?). 

Maybe those would be better handled as special successes? So you could come up with frost, burn an whatnot special effects similar to the crush, slash and impale specials. 

After a certain point though, RM criticals in RQ/BRP just means the corpse isn't presentable. 

Edited by Atgxtg

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On 2/15/2019 at 8:55 AM, Tywyll said:

MRQ/Legends

 

Rune Magic (Battle Magic)
Divine Magic
Sorcery (1st and 2nd edition)
Dragon Magic
Necromancy
Blood Magic
Elementalism

RQ6/Mythras
Folk Magic
Divine Magic
Sorcery
Mysticism
Classic Fantasy Magic

Note that Legend is much closer to Mythras than MRQ, and the same can be said of their respective Magic systems.

As a result, using Necromancy, Blood Magic and Elementalism from Legend booklets with MRQ would require much more work than using those with Mythras.

Also, Legend had Common Magic instead of MRQ's Rune Magic or Mythras' Folk Magic. It was based on RQ2/RQ3 Battle/Spirit magic, but required the use of a single "Common Magic" skill for all spells instead of one per rune.

You also missed Animism as one of Legend and Mythras magic systems.

 

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