Tupper Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 How is the spell Control (entity) useful? The spell description suggests that the entity could be a spirit, but could also be something corporeal like a hawk, dog, or mammoth (to quote the examples given). I could see that it might be used to bind a spirit. However, Spirit Binding seems a more efficient way to do this, since you don't have to reduce magic points to zero. If you are fighting a spirit and reduce its magic points to zero, it can't do very much. If you are fighting a corporeal entity and reduce its magic points to zero, it is unconscious. I suppose you could command it to sleep on its back rather than its side, or to stop snoring, but it doesn't seem you could do anything very useful with your control. Does anyone know why this spell would be handy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Spirit Binding assumes that you have some form of control over the spirit, be it from some other form or magic or the control exerted by your fetch, or a Control (Entity) spell. Just waving an empty spirit binding enchantment at a spirit won't do a thing. Control (corporeal entity) is a fairly useless spell if cast on the mundane plane. On the spirit plane, I don't know. Can corporeal entities be bound to the spirit world? Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Control ([spirit type]) is useful on Bound spirits still within their Binding Enchantment hutch. It automatically works Quote p250 Control spells automatically work against creatures while they are bound in items... (without having to drop the spirit to 0 MP), for the cost of 1MP and you get 2 minutes of commands, the last of which, before the spell expires, should be 'get back in your hutch' if you want to retain the spirit's 'bound' status. This is better than the single command (followed by freedom if you don't cast some sort of controlling spell, along with the associated chance of failure inside the time it takes for the spirit to complete the assigned task) you get if you simply release a bound spirit from its holding Enchantment. 1 hour ago, Joerg said: Spirit Binding assumes that you have some form of control over the spirit, be it from some other form or magic or the control exerted by your fetch, or a Control (Entity) spell. Just waving an empty spirit binding enchantment at a spirit won't do a thing. I think you're confusing the Binding Enchantment... Spirit Magic enchantment with the Spirit Magic spell Spirit Binding which actually seems to read like you just cast it on any Spirit you can see and the target is forced, with no chance of resistance, into an available and "large enough for the spirit's number of characteristics" Binding Enchantment of your choosing. Quote Spirit Binding 1 Point Ranged, Permanent, Passive This spell is used to bind spirits into familiars or magical objects: The rest of the description discusses what it is used for and how the binding ends, not the mechanics of its use. I'd make the caster defeat the Spirit in a POW v POW roll, m'self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, womble said: I think you're confusing the Binding Enchantment... Spirit Magic enchantment with the Spirit Magic spell Spirit Binding which actually seems to read like you just cast it on any Spirit you can see and the target is forced, with no chance of resistance, into an available and "large enough for the spirit's number of characteristics" Binding Enchantment of your choosing. The rest of the description discusses what it is used for and how the binding ends, not the mechanics of its use. I'd make the caster defeat the Spirit in a POW v POW roll, m'self. I read that spell as the contract that you make with a controlled or otherwise cooperative spirit. In any other case, you would have to overcome a resistance, but since no such struggle is mentioned, I would rule out any other case. It appears to make the tie between the spirit and your CHA limit organ (whatever that is in non-rules terms). It could be seen as part of the Binding Enchantment itself, but that wouldn't make it applicable to unpowered crystals used to house spirits. This is not a spell for combat situations, as far as I am concerned. Edited February 20, 2019 by Joerg Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 As a POW v POW thing, it would be the exact Spirit Magic Equivalent of the Rune Magic Command [Cult Spirit|Species] spells. Makes me think the POW v POW struggle was just omitted. But you could be right. Needs clarification for standardisation purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) Yes, the Spirit Magic spell Control (Species) has always had that problem. The Rune Magic spell Command (Species) is much more versatile. In RQG, it has the occasional disadvantage that it's a straight POW vs POW roll, whereas with the Control spell you can train up your Spirit Combat and be able to Control spirits that you might not be able to Command. But Rune Magic is primarily for priests, who should have a high POW, whereas Control is primarily for shamans, who have a high Spirit Combat. So it's all good. In some alternative rule sets for spirit combat, a critical success would give a win before the other side is reduced to zero, so that was one way that a Control spell could be used without knocking out the target. Edited February 20, 2019 by PhilHibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord High Munchkin Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 There again, Dominate (Human) can be soooo much fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolati Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Ok, with spirits the control entity is useful if you have them in a matrix or in your fetch, but what about corporeal species like a horse. For example, I want to control the horse of my enemy, prior to control, I send a spirit to reduce its mp's to 0, and I have an unconcius horse, ok? and, then I cast the control (horse) spirit spell and... I can command an unconcious horse, I don't think it is very useful, so I think there is anything else I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 44 minutes ago, Kolati said: Ok, with spirits the control entity is useful if you have them in a matrix or in your fetch, but what about corporeal species like a horse. For example, I want to control the horse of my enemy, prior to control, I send a spirit to reduce its mp's to 0, and I have an unconcius horse, ok? and, then I cast the control (horse) spirit spell and... I can command an unconcious horse, I don't think it is very useful, so I think there is anything else I don't know. Yes, the spirit magic spell isn't suited to be used on embodied (unbound) creatures. It would be different if that creature has a previous condition so that it acts like a spirit in a Binding. Still not usable on an enemy horse, but possibly useful on an animal companion of yours. The RAW don't have such preparations, though. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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