Orlanthi Weaponthanes vs Housecarls

[Richard S.]

Geez. All you guys must have like history and linguistics phds or something because I've got zero idea as to what y'all are talking about now.

[Sir_Godspeed]

6 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Geez. All you guys must have like history and linguistics phds or something because I've got zero idea as to what y'all are talking about now.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. This is mostly just people's different personal visions getting out in the open, as far as I've understood it.

[Ali the Helering]

16 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Geez. All you guys must have like history and linguistics phds or something because I've got zero idea as to what y'all are talking about now.

Some of us are fanatics in our own sweet ways.  Enjoy your Glorantha.

Everything else is just icing on the cake for those of us who are a bit weird😁

[Jeff]

12 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

There was a smiley face indicating the post was tongue-in-cheek.

However, it also served to illustrate that virtually all European societies prior to modern times tended to very roughly the same social levels and distinctions. This is also true to a degree on a wider level, and can probably be projected onto most Indo-European cultures reliant on farming.

This is absolutely correct. "Free" citizen status exists in many cultures, alongside "semi-free" tenants, and a semi-hereditary martial aristocracy. The Cambridge Companion to the Aegean Bronze Age (ed. Cynthia W. Shelmerdine), Wolfram's "The Roman Empire and its Germanic Peoples," Auboyer's "Daily Life in Ancient India", Bryce's "Life and Society in the Hittite World", all describe similar social classes. And not just Indo-European. You see similar social categorisations in the Aramaic-speaking tribes of Mesopotamia (a great academic source is the anthology "The Babylonian World" edited by Gwendolyn Leick). As an editorial decision, we largely use modern English words to describe things like noble, warrior, or house bodyguard, rather than (mis)use Anglo-Saxon or other terms. It makes it easier to explain what something is, causes less confusion, and allows the status to become Gloranthan rather than a transplant from a real world culture.

[Jeff]

15 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Something along the lines of

Horse man.  I-GO-A-DA-RA, or Igowadara

Cattle man GO-U-A-DA-RA or Gouwadara

Sheep man PO-A-DA-RA or Powadara

as a rough guess.  Possibly better rendered as Igowandaras, Gowandaras and Powandaras, but I am far from sure....

Yep. And if we wanted a purely Gloranthan set of titles, we can guess that the Orlanthi use the following (I am not sure whether Theyalan language is gendered or not, so am just using "man" as the default for person even though that is probably incorrect):

Free man - this is a full member of the community, male or female. These households do not need to serve someone else to survive.

Unfree man - this is someone who needs to serve someone else to survive.

Horse man - this is a member of the martial aristocracy, who is given land and/or livestock by others so that they might be full-time professional warriors.

House man or hall man - this is a personal bodyguard of a high status person. I increasingly use "palace" instead of "hall" but the terms are basically synonymous. "Big House" might be best.

God-talker - this is somebody who serves as a part-time holy person. They speak "to" the gods.

God-voice - this is somebody who serves as a full-time holy person.  They speak "for" the gods.

Wyter-voice - this is the leader of a clan or kinship group. Also called Chief God Voice for the kinship group.

War Lord - this the tribal ruler. 

Earth queen - this is the high priestess of the Ernalda cult.

Storm King's voice - this is the tribal ruler of the Rex subcult. 

And so on. Some of these terms were around since the Dawn or even the God Time (free, unfree, god-talker, god-voice, war lord), others are later developments (horse man, hall man, Storm King's voice, etc.)

[soltakss]

18 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Geez. All you guys must have like history and linguistics phds or something because I've got zero idea as to what y'all are talking about now.

Debating the merits of which historical names for social classes in a made-up world. Some people just like to sound clever.

[Ali the Helering]

15 hours ago, soltakss said:

Debating the merits of which historical names for social classes in a made-up world. Some people just like to sound clever.

Ahh, what it is to be humble. Indeed, best at being humble!😁

[Ali the Helering]

19 hours ago, soltakss said:

Debating the merits of which historical names for social classes in a made-up world. Some people just like to sound clever.

However, to provide some comfort, I am about to begin a blog concerning the Kingdom of Ignorance.😊

[ChalkLine]

An old word for 'God Man' was 'Godi'. I also use this for Orlanthi shamans.

I think that in most barbarian societies the distinction between priest and shaman is unknown to everyone else but those who actually are one

[davecake]

On 2/23/2019 at 9:28 PM, ChalkLine said:

the distinction between priest and shaman is unknown to everyone else but those who actually are one

Among the modern Orlanthi, it’s fairly distinct, I think. 

God-Talkers and priests are fully integrated into the sacred life of their clan/tribe, and usually economically as well - there are hides to support the temples, god-talkers care for a specific shrine, and so on. Shamans tend much more to be outsiders, strange weirdos living outside of community lands. Or living as part of smaller minority groups within the community. 

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, davecake said:

Among the modern Orlanthi, it’s fairly distinct, I think. 

God-Talkers and priests are fully integrated into the sacred life of their clan/tribe, and usually economically as well - there are hides to support the temples, god-talkers care for a specific shrine, and so on. Shamans tend much more to be outsiders, strange weirdos living outside of community lands. Or living as part of smaller minority groups within the community. 

And they wear different hats. See that Storm Voice over there? He has an awesome hat that says, "Here is an important person who speaks for the gods." See that shaman over there? He has a crazy person's hat that says, "I'm a crazy person who talks to dead people and rocks."

[RHW]

6 hours ago, Jeff said:

And they wear different hats. See that Storm Voice over there? He has an awesome hat that says, "Here is an important person who speaks for the gods." See that shaman over there? He has a crazy person's hat that says, "I'm a crazy person who talks to dead people and rocks."

This is why my trickster carried a hat for every specific job the party wanted him to do. Jester's hat with bells, pointy Wizard hat, Miner's hard hat, Warrior's full iron helm, Explorer's pith helmet, Burglar's ski mask. The right hat is essential to avoid confusion. Also, a useful reminder of exactly what he was supposed to be up to. It's easy to forget... WATCH OUT! A PIECE OF THE WORLD MACHINE IS FALLING! 

Wow. You're so lucky it didn't hit you.

Are you eating that? 

Back to the subject, it doesn't matter a ton what ranks you use. You could use Kuge, Samurai, Shi, Heimin, Hinin and Eta and it would be no less inaccurate to a non-Eartth society like the Orlanthi than chief, thane, housecarl, carl, thrall, and stickpicker. 

No, seriously, are you eating that?