Outlaw or Underground Cults in the Lunar Empire

[metcalph]

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Krarsht and Thanatar are very forbidden cults but have their place.

I doubt Thanatar is worshipped to any great extent within Peloria.  He's not the type of god that one can worship in secret.

 

[metcalph]

2 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Sheng Seleris lit the 'Old Lights of Dara Happa', and whilst unexplained these have potential.

From the presence of Dara Happa on Horse, I think these are meant to be reactionary Dara Happans who have taken to riding on horseback in imitation of their Pentan masters.  They could survive as another bandit god in the north but they would have stiff competition from the Kashis.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Bohemond said:

In Dara Happa it would make sense that Orlanth as Niskis would be a problem. In Dara Happan culture, he would be seen as a shameless seducer and adulterer who tries to corrupt women and humiliate their fathers or husbands. He might serve as a model for trouble-making young men to express their frustration against the rigid patriarchal structure of society. (In many urban areas of late medieval Europe, young men used seduction of women as a weapon against rival families and older men they disliked, a la Romeo and Juliet, so there's a good RW parallel for that.)

Niskis is primarily a minor god in Orlanthi mythology hence I wouldn't place him in Peloria.  The actual phallic god in Peloria would be Umatum or Deseeti and be associated with Darjiin.

[svensson]

13 minutes ago, metcalph said:

But that's the Orlanthi themselves, not the Dara Happans/Pelorians.  

I meant that as a reference to how the Storm pantheon provides deities even for Orlanthi outlaws while neither Dara Happan cultures do.

Sorry if I confused.

[svensson]

Slightly off-thread, but related...

During playtest I offered a suggestion for a sorcerous cult within the Empire that honored the thief, smuggler and conman. I called it 'The Shadow of the Sun and Moons', and the focus of its magical teachings were to be illusionary and distracting, not combative. The skills taught would be sorcery magic skills along with Devise and Bluff. The point of the cult is robbing from the rich to get rich and take care of your own community's poor without having to resort to charity or the Lunar Way. This was not a cult designed make a worshiper a well-known and widely feared Magus, but rather a wealthy and locally respected member of the underworld. The cult's attitude about the whole Empire was very much 'We may be all us, but you are not mine so piss off'.

Jeff didn't like my group's take on the Sorcery rules [we tried to tie it more tightly to the Runes], and so the idea died before I really got into the details of it.

Edited March 2, 2019 by svensson

[Ali the Helering]

18 minutes ago, metcalph said:

From the presence of Dara Happa on Horse, I think these are meant to be reactionary Dara Happans who have taken to riding on horseback in imitation of their Pentan masters.  They could survive as another bandit god in the north but they would have stiff competition from the Kashis.

I doubt that they would fit being 'lit', rather I imagine an alternative solar pantheon to that foisted on Dara Happa by Yelmgatha.

[EricW]

I think Eurmal would be a good candidate for a troublesome outlaw God in the Lunar Empire. Eurmal supports thieving and outlawry, his shrines are usually well hidden, and he provides lots of useful magics for hunted outlaws who want to stay one step ahead of the law. In the empire Orlanth isn't strong enough to restrain Eurmal - so Eurmal is pretty much free to run amok.

[g33k]

15 hours ago, EricW said:

I think Eurmal would be a good candidate for a troublesome outlaw God in the Lunar Empire. Eurmal supports thieving and outlawry, his shrines are usually well hidden, and he provides lots of useful magics for hunted outlaws who want to stay one step ahead of the law. In the empire Orlanth isn't strong enough to restrain Eurmal - so Eurmal is pretty much free to run amok.

... And a very interesting hook, IMHO !

I can definitely see the Red Goddess looking at Eurmal's presence in the Empire, and thinking, "What he really needs a Harley Quinn type Mythic Girlfriend!  oh hey, and a backdoor into the Storm Tribe ftw!"

[EricW]

4 hours ago, g33k said:

... And a very interesting hook, IMHO !

I can definitely see the Red Goddess looking at Eurmal's presence in the Empire, and thinking, "What he really needs a Harley Quinn type Mythic Girlfriend!  oh hey, and a backdoor into the Storm Tribe ftw!"

He he, all that potential - but Eurmal is the embodiment of wasted potential 😉. Don't forget, as a Light Bringer Eurmal is adept at slipping through the clutches of chaos monsters who seek to snare his power.

Edited March 5, 2019 by EricW
Added more detail.

[jeffjerwin]

In my campaign, Ulurda the Blue Fox, an aspect of Sedenya Herself, has thieving aspects. She's a hunting goddess and a spirit of trickery and survival, but these aspects, though rustic, are obviously roguish.

[Brootse]

On 3/2/2019 at 1:50 PM, svensson said:

Given the importance of magical institutions in Glorantha, where does the Lunar citizen go if he's a drunkard, or pickpocket, or jester, or whatever?

The Yanafal Tarnils Officer Corps.

[JonL]

On 3/2/2019 at 2:39 PM, metcalph said:

I doubt Thanatar is worshipped to any great extent within Peloria.  He's not the type of god that one can worship in secret.

 

I expect they keep a few Illuminated converts on a short leash for situations like finding out what someone who chose death over capture was protecting.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, JonL said:

I expect they keep a few Illuminated converts on a short leash for situations like finding out what someone who chose death over capture was protecting.

Illumination isn't the sort of resource one can exploit like that.  

[JonL]

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

Illumination isn't the sort of resource one can exploit like that.  

They often seem to try anyway.  

[g33k]

I expect they DO keep a few such Illuminates on a short leash...

But likely understand that some of the answers they get will be wrong, because the Illuminate has some Illuminated agenda the Imperial Overseer doesn't understand; also, sometimes said Illuminates will just slip their leash with no notice, never to be leashed again.

Unless of course the Illuminate decides the "leash" is convenient to them.  I mean... How ELSE are you likely to get a top-level back channel into Lunar Imperial Intelligence, hmm?

 

[RHW]

Is Tunoral the Raccoon God of Vanch still canon? He has a thief aspect. If so, I could see his worship being suppressed or highly controlled, with his merchant aspect being emphasized or co-opted by a Lunar hero cult and his thief aspect being de-emphasized or even outlawed.

[g33k]

2 hours ago, RHW said:

Is Tunoral the Raccoon God of Vanch still canon? He has a thief aspect. If so, I could see his worship being suppressed or highly controlled, with his merchant aspect being emphasized or co-opted by a Lunar hero cult and his thief aspect being de-emphasized or even outlawed.

<heh>

You say "de-emphasized or even outlawed," I say "golden opportunity."

[RHW]

27 minutes ago, g33k said:

<heh>

You say "de-emphasized or even outlawed," I say "opportunity."

The world “Golden” mysteriously  disappears from your post. You hear a distant chittering.

Tunoral was never here. He’s not even canon. He doesn’t exist.

Who were we talking about again?

[JonL]

8 hours ago, g33k said:

I expect they DO keep a few such Illuminates on a short leash...

But likely understand that some of the answers they get will be wrong, because the Illuminate has some Illuminated agenda the Imperial Overseer doesn't understand; also, sometimes said Illuminates will just slip their leash with no notice, never to be leashed again.

Unless of course the Illuminate decides the "leash" is convenient to them.  I mean... How ELSE are you likely to get a top-level back channel into Lunar Imperial Intelligence, hmm?

 

Who is using whom in this scenario is an open question. The answer is likely, "We all are, us."

[Joerg]

I think that the main problem with undercover Illuminates is that their low regard for the cultural norms of the people they joined goes both way. They are about as reliable as tricksters (though they aren't Tricksters in the normal sense).

You'd probably need more advanced illuminates to handle them somewhat, but then those more advanced illuminates have utterly different concerns, and why should they bother? Special teaching by the Red Emperor or the Great Sister might be the only thing to motivate them. Or not.

Think of illuminate infiltrators as a cadre of chemtrails devotees sent to investigate the aircraft industry for cartel moves.

Edited March 6, 2019 by Joerg

[Akhôrahil]

While Gorgorma isn't a suppressed or illegal cult per se, I'm thinking nobles take a very dim view of her Peasant Rebellion associations, and will try to stamp any worship of her out in those parts of the community?

[jajagappa]

On 3/6/2019 at 3:47 AM, Akhôrahil said:

and will try to stamp any worship of her out in those parts of the community?

The unfortunate consequence of trying that is that their Dendara wives turn into Gorgorma cultists and suddenly their noble line is, so to speak, "nipped in the bud".  The next generation of nobles learns very quickly.

[Jeff]

The Gorgorma cult is officially tolerated by the Lunar Empire, although it is usually discouraged and quietly suppressed by local rulers. It has some very powerful protectors within the Lunar Empire, so those local rulers need to tread very carefully.

[svensson]

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

The Gorgorma cult is officially tolerated by the Lunar Empire, although it is usually discouraged and quietly suppressed by local rulers. It has some very powerful protectors within the Lunar Empire, so those local rulers need to tread very carefully.

She is much like Babeester Gor and Maran Gor that way. The Earth will have it's due, in blood, in silver, and in POW sacrificed from *everyone*. To do ought else invites utter ruination. Prior to the Dragonrise, no other cult or society could match the power of the Earth Mothers when angered... Certainly not the Red Goddess, and the Storm Gods didn't even try. Even the Malkioni's Invisible God knows better than to place his dogma in direct opposition to Ernalda. It is unknown whether or nor Argrath has any kind of control or influence over Dragons... just waking one up was Heroic enough... but he will not risk angering Samastina, Clearwine, the Paps or any other large collections of Earth power. He knows better than that.

[svensson]

On 3/5/2019 at 11:59 PM, Joerg said:

I think that the main problem with undercover Illuminates is that their low regard for the cultural norms of the people they joined goes both way. They are about as reliable as tricksters (though they aren't Tricksters in the normal sense).

You'd probably need more advanced illuminates to handle them somewhat, but then those more advanced illuminates have utterly different concerns, and why should they bother? Special teaching by the Red Emperor or the Great Sister might be the only thing to motivate them. Or not.

Think of illuminate infiltrators as a cadre of chemtrails devotees sent to investigate the aircraft industry for cartel moves.

To my knowledge, only two Gloranthan societies have actively tried to harness Illumination, maybe three... The First Council's Bright God project that birthed Nysalor, the Jrustelan God Learners [an arguable point.. they may not have been Nysalor Riddlers per se, but their actions were Illuminated in practice], and the Lunar Colleges. You see how well each one of those societies prospered for their temerity.

With all that being said, I see Illumination as something kept very secret; something only shared between one believer to another on an individual basis. They may network among themselves, but they don't organize. There are few if any 'Illumination clubhouses'. I would think that most of the smart Illuminates [or at least the cautious ones] operate like King Oddi of the Bilini. Oddi may understand that Order and Chaos are two sides of the same coin, he might understand that neither can exist without the other. But he is also aware of his position and duty as king of his people. If a fellow Illuminate were to contact him, he would judge that Illuminate solely on the effect that person has on his people. And if that means that he personally orders that Illuminate executed, he will without a second thought.