Akhôrahil Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: Yes, what I would do is a series of limited scope cult compatibility matrices showing cults that are active in various areas. And you don't need to know in a detailed enumerated chart which chaos deities Storm Bull is hostile to. Yes, we probably don’t need a relationship level between, I don’t know, Entekos and Tsankth. Listing relevant relations per diety might be easier than a titanic matrix. Edited September 24, 2021 by Akhôrahil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 24, 2021 Share Posted September 24, 2021 1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said: Yes, what I would do is a series of limited scope cult compatibility matrices showing cults that are active in various areas. And you don't need to know in a detailed enumerated chart which chaos deities Storm Bull is hostile to. Cult compatibility sparse matrices! I think what I'd do is to have one inter-pantheon matrix, a la GoG, then an intra-pantheon one for each such, and then a list of notable exceptions. Or heroplane map intersections, to get real fancy like FDWC! ("We're going to need a bigger book.") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said: I did not notice that, my only reference is the "Dieux de glorantha" matrix, not localised at all, and then, too simple by the way, a (for me) very nice matrix would be the different "stations" where two gods meet and what it happend for example ZZ - YO - hill of gold - ambush / zz wins / zz gains fire power from Yo / Yo loses fire power / period (well I don't know) Orlanth - Kyger - kyger's home - steal / Orlanth wins / Orlanth gains sandals of darkness / Kyger ?... i don't know / period ? i don't know a very big project... we need a new Descartes to create a great encyclopedia 6 hours ago, Joerg said: I had such a SQL-based tool on chaosium.com about a dozen years ago. Basically, you link the participants and the locations to an entry describing the event. Unfortunately, it didn't migrate well, and then not at all. The index also gave page numbers in the publications mentioning these. And it would have been possible to link the database to interactive maps Can be done in a wiki, too, if you just use the hyperlinks as tags and don't complicate it introducing hierarchical categories. Sounds exceptionally God Learnery to me!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 6 hours ago, Shiningbrow said: Sounds exceptionally God Learnery to me!!! G L+1 = G M you know the big secret now 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 For me, having a downloadable spreadsheet is fine. 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccercalle Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 On 3/3/2019 at 11:56 AM, Jeff said: So I am wrapping up the text of this book, while making sure that it all ties into both the new Heroquesting chapters in the GM Sourcebook and into the Hero Wars Campaign. It is increasingly looking like this will be a two-volume book, as it includes the long form of more than 70 cults. It is perhaps easier to say what the book does not have: 2 and a half years of "wrapping up the text". I think you need a new editor 😉 This is one of the most important source books for a GM and I think its better to get it out than to make it "perfect". Going from 99 to 99.9% of perfect is rarely a good way of using time or other resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 11 minutes ago, Soccercalle said: 2 and a half years of "wrapping up the text". I think you need a new editor 😉 This is one of the most important source books for a GM and I think its better to get it out than to make it "perfect". Going from 99 to 99.9% of perfect is rarely a good way of using time or other resources. Art takes a long time man. 8 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soccercalle Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Jeff said: Art takes a long time man. I understand that. But I think most GMs prefer to get the rules sooner with less art instead of waiting years to get the best art. You already have a system where the pdf is released before the hardcover books. Why not have a first version of the pdf without all the art. That would also help with the cashflow. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 On 9/27/2021 at 10:08 AM, Soccercalle said: I understand that. But I think most GMs prefer to get the rules sooner with less art instead of waiting years to get the best art. You already have a system where the pdf is released before the hardcover books. Why not have a first version of the pdf without all the art. That would also help with the cashflow. I have suggested that before. I don't think Chaosium wants to do it. I'm not clear why they are resisting all the "Shut Up And Take My Money" clamor! I think Chaosium *likes* money... I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line... but that's just me being an internet-rando-theoretician, not any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process. Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Wulfraed Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 2 hours ago, g33k said: I'm not clear why they are resisting all the "Shut Up And Take My Money" clamor! I think Chaosium *likes* money... I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line... There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said: There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product. Not a layout expert, but I *think* a text-only doc can be set to automatically avoid orphans and widows &such. The proposal is for a *very* minimalist product. For me, it could even be straight-up .TXT doc ! Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Baron Wulfraed said: There is also the matter that they'd be laying out two PDF formats, with different pagination (unless the layout has reserved spaces for images in advance). Two formats means twice the work put into the PDFs, and can you hear the uproar if buyers of the "B/W" PDF are then charged again to get the "colorized" PDF -- if they don't charge for the later colorized version then they are losing money on the product. The way a lot of KS "reward packages" do this is you get advance "as good as we have right now" PDFs, but in a higher-priced bundle which also includes some configuration of the finished product too. So there's limited extra work involved for the publisher, no loss of sales to people looking to get a perfect product cheaper and sooner (and then complaining when they don't get it, indeed), and no confusion of expectation. OTOH, this isn't a KS, obviously, so this isn't something there's a general expectation Chaosium do. It may still be more nuisance than they want to make for themselves -- at least some sort of content-checking before a version-freeze, and the mailouts themselves need to be set up. And maybe counter-productive as people start yammering away about the product months and years in advance, as g33k suggests. For this product I think best to treat as "that ship's sailed", rather than badgering them to change their sales and marketing this late on in a product cycle. But maybe begging and pleading under separate cover for future products to be done like this, if people also want to pay extra for advance sight of the GMG, the Sartar Book, the Gazetteer, and whatever else might be in or adjacent to the pipe. Another internet-rando-theoretician without any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process, though I think that disclaimer is redundant as implied. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonh Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 There's also the issue of publicity. Products generally get a rush of sales on release which tails off. If the final book with art is seen as just a follow-up on an already released product that could significantly detract from the launch buzz. Quote Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 30, 2021 Author Share Posted September 30, 2021 We have ZERO interest in releasing a pdf of the Cults or any other book without the art. The art is a key part of the book. I don't mind selling a limited numbers of draft manuscripts at a special convention, but that's about it. 9 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) On 9/29/2021 at 5:37 PM, g33k said: I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line... but that's just me being an internet-rando-theoretician, not any knowledge of Chaosium's decision-making process. I think Jeff has pretty much said that almost verbatim, but it's only one reason and maybe not the primary one. Edited October 1, 2021 by PhilHibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreadDomain Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 9/30/2021 at 2:37 AM, g33k said: I hypothesize they fear some confusion and/or early-reportage of how "the look is a disappointment," to the overall detriment of sales and/or damage to the RQG product-line... As much as I am very keep to get my hands on the cults book, a pre-release being detrimental to the full release is certainly a distinct possibility On 9/30/2021 at 10:50 PM, Jeff said: We have ZERO interest in releasing a pdf of the Cults or any other book without the art. The art is a key part of the book. But to me, as a customer, this is the main consideration. While I accept for some art and production value is not that important, I am firmly in the camp believing RPG books need strong visual identities and I'd rather wait for the complete product than read a text only version. Similarly, I would not watch, even for free, an advance viewing of the next big, universally anticipated block buster movie with the special effects unfinished. I view rpg books with strong visual identities, like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, similarly. I appreciate others will have different views. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, DreadDomain said: ... While I accept for some art and production value is not that important, I am firmly in the camp believing RPG books need strong visual identities and I'd rather wait for the complete product than read a text only version. Similarly, I would not watch, even for free, an advance viewing of the next big, universally anticipated block buster movie with the special effects unfinished. I view rpg books with strong visual identities, like RuneQuest and Call of Cthulhu, similarly. I appreciate others will have different views. I *LOVE* the great art in this Glorious Reascent of RuneQuest! Across the line, top to bottom. It's incredible! (only one quibble -- some pieces seem to be too dark and/or too muddy/low-res; Chaosium needs a better QC on a few of those (I suspect it's something in the print cycle that their art-files aren't optimized for) ) . And, at the same time, I have *multiple* cults that I and my players would like to use, that we currently have to guess at. We could (would!) be using those today, if the text was available (*AND* we would buy the DeadElf copies as soon as they could be bought). I know other groups and individuals are in like circumstances; one group even claimed (a bit hyperbolically, IMHO... but "the customer is always right" &c) that RQG is "unplayable" for them, for lack of certain cults! Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDLeary Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 OK, something of a counterpoint. While I LOVE purdy books with fabulous art and cartography, I'm not looking for a coffee-table book. I'm looking for a game book that looks good, but will handle everyday use at the table, around food and drink. So, while old-style black and white artwork from yesteryear really doesn't cut it by todays standard, heading too far in the other direction (just to keep up with the joneses) is also something that doesn't go over well, especially if it significantly delays a "finished" product. SDLeary 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Apologies for asking for sensitive information, but... Will LM have God-Talkers and Rune Lords - particularly with the Sword Sages? And, also, different factions with different requirements for advancement? In particular, what would be the requirements for an RL Sword Sage? As for the second bit, what about sorcerous factions? Will that get included? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Dick Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said: Apologies for asking for sensitive information, but... Will LM have God-Talkers and Rune Lords - particularly with the Sword Sages? And, also, different factions with different requirements for advancement? In particular, what would be the requirements for an RL Sword Sage? As for the second bit, what about sorcerous factions? Will that get included? No Sword Sages, only martial cults have RuneLords. No God-Talkers in the Gencon Preview edition, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldShogun Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 How is the cult distribution broken down in the book, is it by homeland? Interested in knowing if there is a cult breakdown for Lunar Tarsh as I don’t think I’ve seen one ever before for the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, GoldShogun said: How is the cult distribution broken down in the book, is it by homeland? Interested in knowing if there is a cult breakdown for Lunar Tarsh as I don’t think I’ve seen one ever before for the area. By Homeland. And there are breakdowns for: Sartar Grazelands Old tarsh Lunar Tarsh Caladraland Esrolia Heortland Rightarm Islands Dital God Forgot Bison Tribe High Llama tribe Pol-Joni Impala Tribe Sable Tribe Morokanth Rhino Tribe Zebra Tribe Unicorn Tribe Aggar Holay Vanch Imther Darjiin Doblian First Blessed Karasal Kostaddi Oraya Oronin Silver Shadow Sylila West Reaches AND For: Brown Elves Green Elves Yellow Elves Dagori Inkarth Shadow Plateau/Troll Woods Elder Wilds Halikiv Yolp Blue Moon Plateau Mistress Race (anywhere) Trollkin (anywhere) 14 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runeblogger Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon? Also, could a Seven Mothers Runelord have access to True Weapon through some sort of Yanafal Tarnils subcult? I guess Seven Mothers initiates can transition smoothly to the proper Yanafal Tarnils cult if they pass the tests, but do they then start a separate Rune point pool? How does that work? 2 Quote Read my Runeblog about RuneQuest and Glorantha at: http://elruneblog.blogspot.com.es/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonh Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Runeblogger said: Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon? Back in the day the general consensus was to use Humakt cult magic as a guide for Yanafal Tarnils but without Sever Spirit. Hopefully we'll get a bit more to work with in the new book. Edited October 18, 2021 by simonh 1 Quote Check out the Runequest Glorantha Wiki for RQ links and resources. Any updates or contributions welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Runeblogger said: Since the book will include Yanafal Tarnils and the rest of the Mothers as proper cults, can anyone please tell me if Yanafal initiates have access to True Weapon? Yes, Truesword. 1 hour ago, Runeblogger said: Also, could a Seven Mothers Runelord have access to True Weapon through some sort of Yanafal Tarnils subcult? Yes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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