Gods and Goddesses of Glorantha

[Jeff]

35 minutes ago, metcalph said:

To be honest, I've never really seen myths of her acting through agape etc, it's just eros through and through.

Uleria is the power of union and the Cup of Life. She was present every time the old gods combined to create burtae. Present when Umath was born from Sky and Earth, when Orlanth was born from Air and Earth, and so on. She is a fairly impersonal deity, but is present whenever more than one being joins with another to create something. That can be erotic, friendship, community, whatever. Although some of her spells are eros - others (like Transfer Pregnancy or Community) are not particularly erotic.

[7Tigers]

Community, a 2 points divine spell, was already available and described in Gods of Glorantha (Avalon Hill)
"This spell guarantees rapid and easy communication of ideas, and facilitates the sharing of new or troubled thoughts." i.e. basically, communication skill rolls are always successful.

[Sir_Godspeed]

5 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

ENTIRELY UNRELATEDLY, because the Sun Gods f*ck through a sheet when they aren't sworn to virginity, Turos being the exception

... is Molanni, "mother of Daga", somehow related to Entekos? Daga is paralleled by Yatelo the (deeply creepy) Hungry Sun in Six Ages. She is portrayed by Orlanthings as a woman in a submissive position. Is Molanni an Orlanthing interpretation of Yelm's Wife?

Here's Yatelo, because everyone loves pictures. Also pictured: Inilla the Gatherer God looking sad and Elmal officially looking "vexed". (Six Ages

I suggested something similar a while ago (great minds think alike), although I'm not sure if it's actually correct:
 

 

Quote

We're also told Vadrus fathered a daughter called Molanni, the goddess of Still Air. To me, this seemed like a way for the Orlanthi to account for Entekos, the goddess of "Good Air", who is an air deity of considerable age and notability in Pelanda and later, Peloria as a whole, but is seemingly entirely absent in the actual Air peoples' stories. This was strengthened by her being mentioned as a traitor. However, since she is mentioned by name in the Wedding Contest for Yelm, and contrasted with Dendara (the other possible Entekos-mask/equivalent) I'm not sure how plausible that is. I'm more tempted to see Entekos as a direct daughter of Umath now, but that's pure speculation on my part.
 

There are other candidates for an Orlanthi version of Entekos as well, such as Serenha, who is said to have been born in the wake of Umath's travels (making her his literal wake air) and who later begat Kolat's breath spirits, I believe.

Then there's Brastalos, the wife of Magasta, goddess of the doldrums. She is associated with a specific weather pattern out at sea by the Orlanthi, but she could conceivably take a very different form when understood by an inland civilization, imho.

Overall: no idea.

[Sir_Godspeed]

EDIT: double post, oops.
 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, davecake said:

I think it is a profound misunderstanding of Uleria to think she only deals with erotic love. She is not the goddess of eros, she is the goddess of love - eros, agape, philia, storge.

You should have given the source for that, David - the old Prosopaedia, also found at https://www.glorantha.com/docs/uleria/. Her temples have three entrances, only one of which is for people entering for lust.

Her offering herself to the Boggles was not a carnal act - it was an act of unconditional love, paralleled only in Teelo Estara's/Sedenya's encounter with Blaskarth (as the coded text with that strange Lunar demigod symbols font hides).

[Joerg]

Duplicate post.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Joerg

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

You should have given the source for that, David - the old Prosopaedia, also found at https://www.glorantha.com/docs/uleria/. Her temples have three entrances, only one of which is for people entering for lust.

Her offering herself to the Boggles was not a carnal act - it was an act of unconditional love, paralleled only in Teelo Estara's/Sedenya's encounter with Blaskarth (as the coded text with that strange Lunar demigod symbols font hides).

The source is also the new Cults Book, which has a full Uleria writeup. 

[davecake]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

You should have given the source for that, David

Why? There are multiple sources. 

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

the old Prosopaedia

Actually a longer format cult of Uleria was published before then (oddly enough, as a Gods of Glorantha preview, though it wasn't included in the eventual product) in 1985, in Different Worlds 38. Many elements of that write up also appear in the GenCon draft Cults book, really very similar, she hasn't changed much in 34 years. She certainly been described as including powers to enhance community and generally favour loving creation since at least then. 

[davecake]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

Her offering herself to the Boggles was not a carnal act - it was an act of unconditional love,

Agreed. 

[Joerg]

15 minutes ago, davecake said:

Why? There are multiple sources. 

Actually a longer format cult of Uleria was published before then (oddly enough, as a Gods of Glorantha preview, though it wasn't included in the eventual product) in 1985, in Different Worlds 38. Many elements of that write up also appear in the GenCon draft Cults book, really very similar, she hasn't changed much in 34 years. She certainly been described as including powers to enhance community and generally favour loving creation since at least then. 

Yes, I knew I had read that, but couldn't remember where without re-building my old index.

I don't think that any of the existing 25 or so long cult formats for the rune owners and the few extras for Praxian, Chaos and Troll deities would change much. Getting the other ones will be a lot more interesting than textual comparison between say seven versions of the Kyger Litor cult write-up for RQ. Has anybody read the Elder Secrets version front to back, word by word, after the RQ3 Troll Pak and Troll Gods versions?

 

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The source is also the new Cults Book, which has a full Uleria writeup. 

Sure. And while it remains unpublished to the general public, it doesn't count as a source you can refer to yet, unless providing a substantial quote (which isn't really what I want to ask for).

And while Dave apparently managed to get his hands on a copy, I haven't so far.

Do we get a new Prosopaedia? I managed to get a glimpse at one quite extensive version a few years back, and while the Prosopaedia doesn't provide extensive myths, it does provide a good elevator pitch for a whole lot of named deities in Glorantha that I would like to see again.

 

Speaking of material I don't have yet, I originally hoped to be able to run scenarios from Smoking Ruins on our local RQG weekend halfway between Kiel and Lübeck, but with the memorial Rattling Wind scenario arriving just in time, I'll probably run that (and pour a good shot for the occasion). (And a week later, have a few more at the Kraken.)

[davecake]

16 hours ago, Jeff said:

She was present every time the old gods combined to create burtae. Present when Umath was born from Sky and Earth, when Orlanth was born from Air and Earth, and so on. She is a fairly impersonal deity, but is present whenever more than one being joins with another to create something. That can be erotic, friendship, community, whatever.

I was particularly struck by the suggestion that when there are 'dual' deities like Hykim and Mikyh or Darhudan and Darhudana, one of them may be a child or emanation of Uleria, blessing the deity with the power to create. That underscores that she is a universal power.

It also makes me think about Tilntae, her love nymphs - it would interesting to see them described as mortal level (eg statted) so they can interact with adventurers. 

[Qizilbashwoman]

27 minutes ago, davecake said:

I was particularly struck by the suggestion that when there are 'dual' deities like Hykim and Mikyh or Darhudan and Darhudana, one of them may be a child or emanation of Uleria, blessing the deity with the power to create. That underscores that she is a universal power.

That Uleria, of all the gods, tends to bear paired couples is probably a feature and not an accident, as you note. The Old Gods, which I tend to think of as "the Titans", who existed in the beginning, were all ungendered. It was the... well, burtae is I guess good enough, it was the burtae who had gender.

Interestingly, the Entekosiad says Ul Eria - which means "Blue Woman" in Pelorian and is one of many borrowed DH words - isn't actually the name of the Titan, who is called Kassa. The text says Eth Elsor (probably "First Self", and another name for Uleria) "replaced" her. This usually is self-generation: a deity creates a new form of themself, such as Lodril's many emanations (Ka Charal [Primolt] and Re Dala Ma [?Ga] have Vi Saru Daran [Lodril], who bears Turos [Lodril again]).

Thus her identity is the same, but she's undergone a transformation from her displaced and distant role as Kassa to her active role as an active god, Ul Eria, now associated with the Blue Planet.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Lordabdul]

Hey there I’m bumping this thread because I’m curious if the Cults book will reintroduce some of the lesser Runes? For instance AFAICT Issaries always had its own special “Trade” rune which isn’t mentioned in RQG.

[Jeff]

21 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Hey there I’m bumping this thread because I’m curious if the Cults book will reintroduce some of the lesser Runes? For instance AFAICT Issaries always had its own special “Trade” rune which isn’t mentioned in RQG.

Issaries runes are Harmony and Mobility. Together they are often expressed as "Issaries" or "Communication," a rune unknown or unused except in trade functions. Other than Issaries, few spirit have it, save those who took it or otherwise obtained it from him.

All his Rune magic can be denoted as Harmony or Mobility.

[Lordabdul]

24 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Issaries runes are Harmony and Mobility. Together they are often expressed as "Issaries" or "Communication,"

Oh I see. The text from Cults of Prax phrases it like it's a 3rd Rune: "The Runes of Issaries are Mobility, Harmony, and “Issaries,” a Rune unknown or unused except in trade functions. Other than Issaries few spirits have it, save those who took it from him.". And since I assume you needed more Runes for HQG's mechanics, and because the Guide is based on those, we have Issaries with 3 Runes in the Guide as well. Are we now avoiding "uncommon" Runes (or hiding them between combinations of existing ones) because that would mess up RQG characters? (unlike with HQG, where new keywords are cheap) Asking for a potential Issaries player...

Edited January 3, 2020 by lordabdul

[Videopete]

I thought there was talk of methods of gaining new runes.  That the base runes are just that, the foundation a character is built.

[Prinz Slasar]

I like the approach. You have the distinct building blocks of reality, the core Runes, and some pairs or combination of Runes have their own names without introducing complete new Runes.

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Oh I see. The text from Cults of Prax phrases it like it's a 3rd Rune: "The Runes of Issaries are Mobility, Harmony, and “Issaries,” a Rune unknown or unused except in trade functions. Other than Issaries few spirits have it, save those who took it from him.". And since I assume you needed more Runes for HQG's mechanics, and because the Guide is based on those, we have Issaries with 3 Runes in the Guide as well. Are we now avoiding "uncommon" Runes (or hiding them between combinations of existing ones) because that would mess up RQG characters? (unlike with HQG, where new keywords are cheap) Asking for a potential Issaries player...

Yes. Storm Bull is not Eternal Battle, but Beast + Disorder (or was it Death?)

Storm Bull the god has his own glyph in art still that's a shorthand for that, but it's just like Shargash's special glyph.

Edited January 3, 2020 by Qizilbashwoman

[moonwolf8]

On page 39 of "The Book of Heortling Mythology it says: "Orlanth's house marched and Vingkot led the bulls, Voriof led the rams, Vederi led the goats, and Varnaval the ordeeds."  On page 148 of Thunder Rebels there is a map with a symbol of an antelope's head for Brolia, a ram's head for Sylila and a goat's head for Zarkos.  I'm guessing that the ordeeds Varnaval lead were a kind of domestic antelope.

Is Vederi a mask of Gerendetho the Billy Goat god of the Kostaddi?

[moonwolf8]

On 3/6/2019 at 2:31 AM, svensson said:

As for IO, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was an Illuminate whose lack of morals and ethics tainted the Sedenya's Quest. I don't mean to imply that all Illuminates are depraved. King Oddi of the Bilini certainly isn't. But it is a legitimate discussion within theological and philosophical circles here on Terra Prime as whether or not 'relative morality' can to rationalized depravity. How many people in history have been led to evil because they felt that their acts were for the 'greater good', after all?

The books I read on Mysticism back in the 80's when I was in college warned that mysticism often gives way to nihilism.  This is why many religious groups require that mystically inclined disciples work with their hands to ground them in the physical world, the whole chop wood carry water thing.

[Sir_Godspeed]

On 4/17/2020 at 2:41 PM, moonwolf8 said:

On page 39 of "The Book of Heortling Mythology it says: "Orlanth's house marched and Vingkot led the bulls, Voriof led the rams, Vederi led the goats, and Varnaval the ordeeds."  On page 148 of Thunder Rebels there is a map with a symbol of an antelope's head for Brolia, a ram's head for Sylila and a goat's head for Zarkos.  I'm guessing that the ordeeds Varnaval lead were a kind of domestic antelope.

Is Vederi a mask of Gerendetho the Billy Goat god of the Kostaddi?

Ordeeds were a kind of (quite large) antelope-like ungulate, yes. They are now extinct, I believe, but you can find visual references of them in Six Ages.

Vederi is unknown, I believe. But he might as well be a pseudonym for Ragnaglar, who is also associated with goats. Nothing else is known, I believe.

[Leingod]

On 4/17/2020 at 5:41 AM, moonwolf8 said:

On page 39 of "The Book of Heortling Mythology it says: "Orlanth's house marched and Vingkot led the bulls, Voriof led the rams, Vederi led the goats, and Varnaval the ordeeds."  On page 148 of Thunder Rebels there is a map with a symbol of an antelope's head for Brolia, a ram's head for Sylila and a goat's head for Zarkos.  I'm guessing that the ordeeds Varnaval lead were a kind of domestic antelope.

Is Vederi a mask of Gerendetho the Billy Goat god of the Kostaddi?

"The Descent From The Mountain" is actually kind of interesting to me, as it seems to me like some things are either missing or changed in the identities of the gods, which I hope is on-topic enough that bringing back this thread isn't an issue.

First of all, it names the "chiefs" who each lead herds of (male) beasts: Vingkot leads bulls, Voriof rams, Vederi goats, and Varnaval ordeeds (which, yes, are a kind of antelope). And the alynxes help them with the herding. It's interesting that Vingkot is being associated with bulls here, rather than Urox or Barntar, the ones most commonly associated with those animals.

Then it names the herds and herders of Ernalda's household behind: Uralda the cows, Nevala the ewes, Entra the sows, and Isbarn the poultry; again, the alynxes help the herders. Leaving aside the poultry, note that there are sows but no boars, and billies but no nannies (that is, male goats but no females). The latter probably isn't a case of avoiding mention of Thed because "we don't talk about the Unholy Trio anymore," since Ragnaglar is stuck at the very end of this story, mentioning his anger at being shown up.

After that, the chiefs call on their Wild Companions. Vingkot calls the Great Bull, Voriof the Great Ram, Humakt suddenly appears in this story and summons the Great Wolf, Barntar appears suddenly to summon the Great Pig, and Varnaval the Great Andam (which I suppose is the source of the name of the Andam Horde). Orlanth proves himself the greatest by summoning Yinkin, which is likely proof because of the aforementioned fact that the alynxes have been helping everyone.

A few things to note: Vederi/Ragnaglar doesn't summon a Wild Companion, even though Ragnaglar is mentioned as being angry over the results of these summonings. Vingkot is associated with bulls rather than Barntar or Urox (maybe the Great Bull is Urox, and there's some myth I don't know about where Vingkot takes Urox to heel?). Humakt seems oddly out of place with his wolf, but maybe that doesn't really mean anything except that Humakt is always that weird, intimidating guy who doesn't quite fit with the rest. And Barntar summons the Great Pig, even though I don't recall any association with him and pigs being mentioned anywhere; that and the omission of any boar-herding chief leads me to suspect it was originally either someone who was forgotten or someone who was deliberately taken out of the story in Barntar's place here. Personally, I  suspect it was Harand, with Entru being the Great Pig that was his Wild Companion. That would be a nice, neat way to resolve this oddity, which, naturally, means that I'm almost certainly dead wrong.

Edited July 11, 2020 by Leingod

[Trotsky]

Wow! I have just read through the this thread and there is a lot of information here. I am returning to RQ after a very long break - back in the day I had Cults if Prax and Terror. I must say the amount of information discussed here is a little overwhelming. As a new player and GM how is the information in these new books different from the cult descriptions in the core rule book? Will it be more background information, will it be useful for developing scenario storylines? I will no doubt buy the books anyway but am thinking how to use them in my play...

[Nick Brooke]

36 minutes ago, Trotsky said:

Wow! I have just read through the this thread and there is a lot of information here. I am returning to RQ after a very long break - back in the day I had Cults if Prax and Terror. I must say the amount of information discussed here is a little overwhelming. As a new player and GM how is the information in these new books different from the cult descriptions in the core rule book? Will it be more background information, will it be useful for developing scenario storylines? I will no doubt buy the books anyway but am thinking how to use them in my play...

Full cult writeups, similar to Cults of Prax. Plus more (eg: a "What the Priest Says" piece introducing each pantheon; cult distribution charts; etc.)

And I share your concern about the sheer mass of information (and simple handling concerns: those are heavy books we're talking about). Then again, nowadays it's easy enough to print your character's cult out from the PDF, and the most useful details for common adventurer cults are already summarised in the core rulebook.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 3/3/2019 at 4:56 AM, Jeff said:

So I am wrapping up the text of this book, ...

• Minor gods of purely local importance, such as Pavis, Lanbril, Flintnail, other city gods, etc. These are better placed in their settings.
• Deities that can be better handled as masks or variant names of other deities, e.g., Elmal, Buserian, etc.

S

 

How about Imarja?  Is she saved for the Nochet supplement?