On the divine side of the street

[Sunwolfe]

Greetings all BRPites as well as the various ancestral derivatives and modern mutations...what glory is ours!:

From a BRP POV, I'm wondering how you all are handling the priestly-magic end of things. Are your priests, holy folk, crusaders, fanatics or church-ladies, etc. using magic, sorcery, or psychic powers...or all of 'em...or none of 'em...or somethin' else?

I have to admit, I miss the "separation of powers" RQ III offered ;-(. I know I can go back and pull out the RQ III book and port divine magic (to tell you the truth, when we game my group uses both the BRP and the RQ III texts...LOL!), but before I do anything like that I thought I'd check out to see if any of you's guys had come up with interesting approaches.

Yeah...I'm bein' lazy

And BTW...as I'm on the subject...is anyone using any interesting enchanting rules? If any of you guys and gals are porting in RQ Divine or Enchantment magic, what modifications if any are ya making so that the whole thing is like...like...ah...ah-ha: peanut butter and jelly--they justa fitta sooo nice!

Cheeeeeeers!

Sunwolfe

[Verderer]

I am pondering about this very thing for my own campaing I have described in another thread. But to put it shortly I am going to run a campaign in medieval 'mythic' Europe (meaning magic works in it).

I haven't come up with a way to use BRP magic or sorcery for divine magic, they don't really fit in with my conception of divine magic, or if you will, 'miracles' tied with any of the real world religions of the era. So I am going to use RQ 3rd ed. magic for it, and perhaps I will also use sorcery and spirit magic from the same book. I haven't yet decided whether I will discard the two BRP types of magic entirely, or try to fit them in with the RQ kind. To be honest, I don't know either magic system well enough to decide yet, so I gotta read more, and perhaps get some good pointers from the more experienced players!

[soltakss]

I am pondering about this very thing for my own campaing I have described in another thread. But to put it shortly I am going to run a campaign in medieval 'mythic' Europe (meaning magic works in it).

Have you seen the Stupor Mundi game? It is set in 14th Century Medieval Europe and focusses on the Holy Roman Empire. It's for RQM but is pretty compatible with any version of RQ and BRP.

I haven't come up with a way to use BRP magic or sorcery for divine magic, they don't really fit in with my conception of divine magic, or if you will, 'miracles' tied with any of the real world religions of the era. So I am going to use RQ 3rd ed. magic for it, and perhaps I will also use sorcery and spirit magic from the same book. I haven't yet decided whether I will discard the two BRP types of magic entirely, or try to fit them in with the RQ kind. To be honest, I don't know either magic system well enough to decide yet, so I gotta read more, and perhaps get some good pointers from the more experienced players!

I wouldn't use BRP magic for divine-style magic. It doesn't seem to fit right, to me. I'd use a version of RQ magic instead, using Divine Magic as Blessings with Common Divine Magic coming from the religion itself (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) and Special Divine Magic coming from Worship of Saints, Reading/Understanding of Books or Consorting With Demons.

[NickMiddleton]

Greetings all BRPites as well as the various ancestral derivatives and modern mutations...what glory is ours!:

From a BRP POV, I'm wondering how you all are handling the priestly-magic end of things. Are your priests, holy folk, crusaders, fanatics or church-ladies, etc. using magic, sorcery, or psychic powers...or all of 'em...or none of 'em...or somethin' else?

Sorcery, rebadged as Divine Miracles and with various spell names changed as appropriate. Allegiance <Specific Deity> grants access to spells (1 / 5 points of Allegiance) on the deities "approved" list and the priest own Power Points are normally used to cast spells but then can also draw points from a willing congregation

I have to admit, I miss the "separation of powers" RQ III offered ;-(. I know I can go back and pull out the RQ III book and port divine magic (to tell you the truth, when we game my group uses both the BRP and the RQ III texts...LOL!), but before I do anything like that I thought I'd check out to see if any of you's guys had come up with interesting approaches.

To be honest, RQIII magic requires virtually no effort to use with BRP you know...

Cheers,

Nick

Edited January 19, 2009 by NickMiddleton

[RosenMcStern]

As stated above, if Sorcery (admittedly not intended for friars and nuns) does not fit your needs, use RQ2, RQ3 or MRQ divine magic. At Alephtar Games you can find some free conversion notes devised to use the MRQ SRD with BRP. It says "Glorantha" but you can use them in any setting.

[Cowboy]

The setting I've previously been using with Rolemaster and am now converting to BRP doesn't grant priests or other religious folk any magic at all, so it's not much of an issue. The few supernatural entities that do grant magic, just teach provide their followers with insight into regular magic.

And, of course, some study magic on their own and claim it comes from their deity (and possibly even believe it to be so).

[Lord Shag]

Hi guys been a while since i have posted, here but talk about divine miracles! Only today i have just finished putting the finishing touches on a comprehensive conversion of a whole series of divine/clerical spells for BRP. I was coming on here to post a message to see if anyone would be interested in having a glance over the thing to get some feedback on improving it or adding to it etc etc.

It runs to approx 16 pages includes about 40 spells with proper detailed descriptions, borrows heavily from RQ with a bit of DnD chucked in. Some BRP spells are also included as well. The mechanics are spun off from BRP magic. If any of you are interested in casting an eye over it just PM me your email address and i'll shoot off a copy to peruse. It might not be straight away as i still might tinker with a few bits and pieces but it will certainly be sometime this week. If you do happen to get a copy off me feel free to be critical and don't spare the ego! We want to make BRP the most kick a$$ game there is.

[Verderer]

Have you seen the Stupor Mundi game? It is set in 14th Century Medieval Europe and focusses on the Holy Roman Empire. It's for RQM but is pretty compatible with any version of RQ and BRP.

I sure have, and own the pdf versioon. It forms a good basis on my campaign.

I wouldn't use BRP magic for divine-style magic. It doesn't seem to fit right, to me. I'd use a version of RQ magic instead, using Divine Magic as Blessings with Common Divine Magic coming from the religion itself (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) and Special Divine Magic coming from Worship of Saints, Reading/Understanding of Books or Consorting With Demons.

That's pretty much my reasoning too. I also might include a few suitable spirit magic spells to complement divine magic.

[Verderer]

Hi guys been a while since i have posted, here but talk about divine miracles! Only today i have just finished putting the finishing touches on a comprehensive conversion of a whole series of divine/clerical spells for BRP. I was coming on here to post a message to see if anyone would be interested in having a glance over the thing to get some feedback on improving it or adding to it etc etc.

It runs to approx 16 pages includes about 40 spells with proper detailed descriptions, borrows heavily from RQ with a bit of DnD chucked in. Some BRP spells are also included as well. The mechanics are spun off from BRP magic. If any of you are interested in casting an eye over it just PM me your email address and i'll shoot off a copy to peruse. It might not be straight away as i still might tinker with a few bits and pieces but it will certainly be sometime this week. If you do happen to get a copy off me feel free to be critical and don't spare the ego! We want to make BRP the most kick a$$ game there is.

PM sent!:thumb:

[Aycorn]

Pretty much as others said. "Sorcery" spells in BRP work pretty much as does Divine Magic in RQ (i.e. automatic success, not a skill).

For the "psuedo-Celtic" campaign I'm developing, anyone with an Allegiance to a god can learn a spell or spells from that god, at the cost of some POW. I haven't worked it all out yet but it will probably be pretty much the same as RQ divine magic. Spells given by gods will be few (a god might not have more than 1 or 2 spells to offer) but such spells will be unique and very powerful.

[skarl]

Precis Intermedia, what used to be Politically Incorrect Games sell a couple of add-ons called the Atomik Grimoire and Atomik Magick that are to be used as default magic systems and cover a lot of ground (nine spheres in 400 spells or vice-versa) that can be used for virtually any fantasy game as the magic system. There are also add-ons for other genres and if I run a BRP game outside of fantasy I would buy those too. I was so impressed with the .pdfs that I went and bought the print versions, which are nice prints by the way.

[Lord Shag]

hi skarl, didn't know about these. thanks for the heads up. went to drive thru and bought them this afternoon. They are very, very, useful particularly if you are building a system from the ground up.

[sdavies2720]

Precis Intermedia, what used to be Politically Incorrect Games sell a couple of add-ons called the Atomik Grimoire and Atomik Magick that are to be used as default magic systems and cover a lot of ground (nine spheres in 400 spells or vice-versa) that can be used for virtually any fantasy game as the magic system.

Wow, I've been looking for something like this for a while. Thanks for the link. Now I just need a couple of weeks of free time...

Steve

[skarl]

You folks are quite welcome. I found these spells themselves somewhat like the old Bard Games magic system from The Arcanum (which I really like) with a system that can be dropped into virtually any game as the default magic system effortlessly. The Atomik add-ons are well thought out options that make toolkit games easier to run, at least for me.

[Nightshade]

The only thing to be aware of about Atomik Magik (unless it changed seriously between the Fuzion version and its more generalized one) is that even when using the fastest duration option, its easy for spells to become effectively non-tactical (barring "hung" spells, which don't always fit the world view well). Other than that, its pretty cool.

[skarl]

As there are no restrictions from taking spells from the elemental Circles in this version of Atomik Magick I don't see why spellcasters are given much more spell flexibility than with standard spell lists. A Homing Fireball or a Lightning Phalanx spell are pretty nasty weapons in anyone's spell arsenal. I actually see this system as giving more room to breathe if you grant elemental circles as a "finesse" to typical magi. While learning your Circle a wizard grabs Lightning. Suddenly that hedge wizard that lives on the edge of town and casts mellow spells to mend armor and fix things throws a Lightning Bolt at the charging orcs and becomes a minor hero. The Elemental spells are set up neatly to not infringe upon a Druid spell list, which are covered nicely under the Sphere of Life.

I am not saying that these add-ons are absolutely perfect, but they do have the ability to be versatile and lend a lot more uniqueness to wizards than most any magic system out there. Unless you are using a True20/True Sorcery type of magic system which is also versatile (but also a bit confusing and bringing in Feats and complicating a game), I believe that the Atomik add-ons give you the best bang for your spellcasting buck. I don't want to sound like an advertisement for these, but I am raving, which sounds odd anymore as there are a lot of rants (not calling your post a rant, Nightshade, I do believe that you are thinking of the Fuzion version, though).

[Nightshade]

As there are no restrictions from taking spells from the elemental Circles in this version of Atomik Magick I don't see why spellcasters are given much more spell flexibility than with standard spell lists. A Homing Fireball or a Lightning Phalanx spell are pretty nasty weapons in anyone's spell arsenal. I actually see this system as giving more room to breathe if you grant elemental circles as a "finesse" to typical magi. While learning your Circle a wizard grabs Lightning. Suddenly that hedge wizard that lives on the edge of town and casts mellow spells to mend armor and fix things throws a Lightning Bolt at the charging orcs and becomes a minor hero. The Elemental spells are set up neatly to not infringe upon a Druid spell list, which are covered nicely under the Sphere of Life.

I am not saying that these add-ons are absolutely perfect, but they do have the ability to be versatile and lend a lot more uniqueness to wizards than most any magic system out there. Unless you are using a True20/True Sorcery type of magic system which is also versatile (but also a bit confusing and bringing in Feats and complicating a game), I believe that the Atomik add-ons give you the best bang for your spellcasting buck. I don't want to sound like an advertisement for these, but I am raving, which sounds odd anymore as there are a lot of rants (not calling your post a rant, Nightshade, I do believe that you are thinking of the Fuzion version, though).

I am indeed. And my objection was only based on the way casting time was handled there; its not the versitility but the fact that non-hung spells take so long to cast (True Sorcery has a similar issue, in fact) (and that hung ones don't always fit a particular paradigm very well).

[skarl]

Does the Fuzion version have a chart in which the spells can take from 3 seconds to 4 hours to cast? This would have Quick, Fast, Slow and Prolonged. For this I drop Prolonged and make Slow rituals.

[Nightshade]

Does the Fuzion version have a chart in which the spells can take from 3 seconds to 4 hours to cast? This would have Quick, Fast, Slow and Prolonged. For this I drop Prolonged and make Slow rituals.

There's a chart that gives a set of times multiplied times a time factor based on how quick you want magic in the setting, but even the fastest version will usually take a while for anything but extremely minimalist spells (since the minimum time was a Fuzion phase, which was approximately 3 seconds, but their example spell multiplies this by about 14 as I recall, which would be 42 seconds--three rounds is a long time in BRP to get off one spell).

[skarl]

Here is another way to handle that other than dropping prolonged:

Use the first degree for all difficulties and add a ritual, which means: Quick, 3 seconds, Fast, 10 seconds, Slow, 1 minute and Prolonged, 5 minutes, then add in a variable for Rituals.

I agree that the times are a bit weird considering some spells, but I don't find that one aspect of Atomik Magick/Grimoire being a problem, especially since you are encouraged to use what works for your game. Having 400 spells and a system to cast them is pretty darned handy, especially for the price.

[Tywyll]

Here is another way to handle that other than dropping prolonged:

Use the first degree for all difficulties and add a ritual, which means: Quick, 3 seconds, Fast, 10 seconds, Slow, 1 minute and Prolonged, 5 minutes, then add in a variable for Rituals.

I agree that the times are a bit weird considering some spells, but I don't find that one aspect of Atomik Magick/Grimoire being a problem, especially since you are encouraged to use what works for your game. Having 400 spells and a system to cast them is pretty darned handy, especially for the price.

It's been awhile since I looked at Atmoic Magic, and I do remember the casting time being a big turn off back in the day.

How do you integrate the 'systemless' aspect to BRP? I mean, how much damage do you have spells do, how much healing, buff, etc? Just curious. I'll have to look them up again.

[skarl]

A Damage Level (DL) would depend on the scope of your game (Normal will differ from Epic, etc) but I use a standard d6 per Damage Level, the same applies to healing magic. POW is adjusted the same way to reflect the Magic Point system.

I just let the Atomik system take over the system I am using, for example, I use the Atomik Magick over the Labyrinth Lord magical system and will do the same for BRP fantasy. Doing this to BRP is easier than Labyrinth Lord with the POW ability built in.

[jkeown]

Caleon's priests are mostly college-educated mages. Divine magic is the realm of the god-touched, the Ilzaru or Iltharch. They can hear their deity's dreams in their head, and translate it as something like Sorcery.