Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Do sorcerers get POW increase chance from worship rituals? In RQ3 they didn't, has this changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Scott Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 It would depend if they worship anyone. If they are godless sorcerers, then no. If they are Lhankor Mhy, as in the core book yes. The Godless sorcerer in my game learned befuddle as he realised he wouldn't get POW gain rolls otherwise. As an aside RQG sorcery isn't based on RQ3, see the design notes. Quote ----- Search the Glorantha Resource Site: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com. Search the Glorantha mailing list archives: https://glorantha.steff.in/digests/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Brootse said: Do sorcerers get POW increase chance from worship rituals? In RQ3 they didn't, has this changed? As we read it, Aeolian, Lhankor Mhy and Lunars: Yes, because they worship real gods, and follow the standard rules. For Malkioni, I presume no, but we have to wait for the book on the West/Malkioni/Sorcery. 30 minutes ago, David Scott said: It would depend if they worship anyone. If they are godless sorcerers, then no. If they are Lhankor Mhy, as in the core book yes. The Godless sorcerer in my game learned befuddle as he realised he wouldn't get POW gain rolls otherwise. Ditto with disruption. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 49 minutes ago, Kloster said: As we read it, Aeolian, Lhankor Mhy and Lunars: Yes, because they worship real gods, and follow the standard rules. For Malkioni, I presume no, but we have to wait for the book on the West/Malkioni/Sorcery. Ditto with disruption. Thanks! In this thread: Jeff said that: On 3/15/2019 at 8:26 AM, Jeff said: It does mean that initiates of many popular cults can't Open the seas - Orlanth, Ernalda, etc. But LM, Issaries, and even CA are likely overrepresented within the Dormal community. Which means that sorcerers can't be Orlanth's Initiates. On the other hand the rulebook says that: Unlike most Malkioni, the Aeolians view the Invisible God as too remote and too unapproachable to directly worship. Instead, they worship Orlanth, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, and Eurmal as personifications or emanations of the Creator. Of these, Orlanth is most important. But this doesn't specify if the Aeolian Wizard caste sorcerers have special rules that allow them to advance to the Initiate status in Orlanth's cult. Maybe the sorcerers have a different kind of Worship Invisible God spell than the Western people, and their spell gets them the POW increase chance, even if they aren't Initiates in a cult that allows learning sorcery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Brootse said: Unlike most Malkioni, the Aeolians view the Invisible God as too remote and too unapproachable to directly worship. Instead, they worship Orlanth, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, and Eurmal as personifications or emanations of the Creator. Of these, Orlanth is most important. But this doesn't specify if the Aeolian Wizard caste sorcerers have special rules that allow them to advance to the Initiate status in Orlanth's cult. Maybe the sorcerers have a different kind of Worship Invisible God spell than the Western people, and their spell gets them the POW increase chance, even if they aren't Initiates in a cult that allows learning sorcery. Where is it written that Aeolian Wizard can't be initiated? It is specifically written they worship Orlanth, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy and Eurmal (RQG p389). It is also written they use sorcery (of course) instead of Rune and Spirit magic, but not that they can't be initiated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Kloster said: Where is it written that Aeolian Wizard can't be initiated? It is specifically written they worship Orlanth, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy and Eurmal (RQG p389). It is also written they use sorcery (of course) instead of Rune and Spirit magic, but not that they can't be initiated. In that thread I linked Jeff said that Orlanth's Initiates aren't allowed to use sorcery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 57 minutes ago, Brootse said: In that thread I linked Jeff said that Orlanth's Initiates aren't allowed to use sorcery. Yes, I have read that thread, but that does not seem compatible with the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pentallion Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brootse said: In that thread I linked Jeff said that Orlanth's Initiates aren't allowed to use sorcery. That's not what Jeff is saying. You took that one sentence out of context. Prior to that, Jeff had just said: Quote when actually a simple use of Water and Command contains what is necessary, once you understand the spell. Orlanthi and Ernaldans, being Air and Earth initiates, are less likely to have the Water Rune. LM will know the tecniques, Issaries can just trade and Chalana Arroy I'm not sure I follow his logic on that one, but no particular Elemental Rune is favored by her though Water is going to be more common than Darkness. Edited March 21, 2019 by Pentallion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pentallion said: That's not what Jeff is saying. You took that one sentence out of context. Prior to that, Jeff had just said: Orlanthi and Ernaldans, being Air and Earth initiates, are less likely to have the Water Rune. LM will know the tecniques, Issaries can just trade and Chalana Arroy I'm not sure I follow his logic on that one, but no particular Elemental Rune is favored by her though Water is going to be more common than Darkness. From the rulebook: A sorcerer’s understanding of a Rune is not based on their affinity with that Rune, nor is it a skill. Instead, an adventurer either understands a Rune well enough to manipulate it, or does not. CH worshippers are allowed to learn any kind of magic that isn't harmful, and LM temples teach a certain set of sorcery spells. Issaries worshippers can't trade for understanding of sorcery runes. Edited March 21, 2019 by Brootse typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 hours ago, Brootse said: In that thread I linked Jeff said that Orlanth's Initiates aren't allowed to use sorcery. 2 hours ago, Kloster said: Yes, I have read that thread, but that does not seem compatible with the rules. I think there might be compatibility a gap that we can squeeze through here. Aeolians can worship Orlanth. Orlanth cultists can't learn sorcery. Therefore Aeolians worship Orlanth, but not through the Orlanth rune cult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: I think there might be compatibility a gap that we can squeeze through here. Aeolians can worship Orlanth. Orlanth cultists can't learn sorcery. Therefore Aeolians worship Orlanth, but not through the Orlanth rune cult. Another possibility is that Jeff's comment was about 'normal' orlanthis, not aeolian ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Kloster said: Another possibility is that Jeff's comment was about 'normal' orlanthis, not aeolian ones. Another possibility is he just cocked up. 😂 Edited March 21, 2019 by PhilHibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 4 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: I think there might be compatibility a gap that we can squeeze through here. Aeolians can worship Orlanth. Orlanth cultists can't learn sorcery. Therefore Aeolians worship Orlanth, but not through the Orlanth rune cult. Orlanth Initiates can't learn sorcery. So I think that in my campaign I'll let the Aeolian wizard be an Orlanth lay member, but get POW increase chances from his Aeolian rites as if he was a priest. At least until the official rules say otherwise. 3 minutes ago, Kloster said: Another possibility is that Jeff's comment was about 'normal' orlanthis, not aeolian ones. Might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) Another very handy spell for the atheist soceror is Disruption. Sure it can be a cheap *ping* spell, but a POW gain roll is a POW gain roll no matter where it comes from. Edited March 21, 2019 by svensson 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Brootse said: Orlanth Initiates can't learn sorcery. So I think that in my campaign I'll let the Aeolian wizard be an Orlanth lay member, but get POW increase chances from his Aeolian rites as if he was a priest. At least until the official rules say otherwise. Which brings up another interesting question. In RQ3, when a cult specifies that Initiate and greater may not know sorcery, it speciifically says they must forget any sorcery known. This is one major reason why the God the Middle Air [and by extention Weather] doesn't have many sailors as worshippers, since sailors almost have to have Open Seas sorcery spell. But does RQG require sorcery learned as a Lay member to be forgotten as an Inititate? I don't recall seeing anything specific to that, but I might have missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, svensson said: Another very handy spell for the aetheist soceror is Disruption. Sure it can be a cheap *ping* spell, but a POW gain roll is a POW gain roll no matter where it comes from. Haha yeah, it's one of my players' favourite spells . And even though Steal Breath doesn't require POW vs. POW roll (if i understood the rules correctly), I made it require it IMG, so the wizard will get his POW increases from its use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Last thing on this, swear to Orlanth This is one reason why we might all be better off waiting for a Malkioni or Sorcery book to come out. It might save us all the speculation and rules contortions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Brootse said: Haha yeah, it's one of my players' favourite spells . And even though Steal Breath doesn't require POW vs. POW roll (if i understood the rules correctly), I made it require it IMG, so the wizard will get his POW increases from its use. Hey, if your cult and associated cults can't get you Disrupt, you're in the wrong cult, bruh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runeblogger Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Two things IMHO: 1. I think it's ridiculous for a sorcerer to learn Disruption ONLY to be able to get a POW increase. I mean, what rationale does that have in-character? IMG, sorcerers will get POW increases just for doing sorcerous things. 2. Orlanthi initiates can't learn sorcery. But that only applies to Orlanthi initiates from cultures such as the Sartarite, Esrolian, Tarshite or Praxian. The Aeolians are a different bunch of people, who believe casting sorcery and whorshipping rune-related gods is OK, so for them that prohibition does not apply. Quote Read my Runeblog about RuneQuest and Glorantha at: http://elruneblog.blogspot.com.es/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brootse Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, svensson said: Last thing on this, swear to Orlanth This is one reason why we might all be better off waiting for a Malkioni or Sorcery book to come out. It might save us all the speculation and rules contortions. Yeah it will solve the problems, but in the meantime campaigns with non-Dragon Pass characters will need some kind of rules for their stuff. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Brootse said: And even though Steal Breath doesn't require POW vs. POW roll (if i understood the rules correctly), I made it require it IMG, so the wizard will get his POW increases from its use. We understood it requires the roll when used as an attack, but not when only tapping the ambient air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, svensson said: Last thing on this, swear to Orlanth This is one reason why we might all be better off waiting for a Malkioni or Sorcery book to come out. It might save us all the speculation and rules contortions. Except that the Aeolians are described in the rules, although briefly. I hope they will receive a more complete treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brootse said: Yeah it will solve the problems, but in the meantime campaigns with non-Dragon Pass characters will need some kind of rules for their stuff. I know. I wanted to put together a Lunar thief just to do something different. The idea was that he'd be the team skill-monkey, lock-picker, and all round Doer of Very Bad Things. Had a hell of a time with it. I didn't like the idea of just filing off the name of Eurmal, couldn't find an appropriate Lunar cult, and was trying to stay away from Sorcery until some further guidance was available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloster Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Runeblogger said: 1. I think it's ridiculous for a sorcerer to learn Disruption ONLY to be able to get a POW increase. I mean, what rationale does that have in-character? IMG, sorcerers will get POW increases just for doing sorcerous things. Completely agree. 8 minutes ago, Runeblogger said: 2. Orlanthi initiates can't learn sorcery. But that only applies to Orlanthi initiates from cultures such as the Sartarite, Esrolian, Tarshite or Praxian. The Aeolians are a different bunch of people, who believe casting sorcery and whorshipping rune-related gods is OK, so for them that prohibition does not apply. This is exactly what we have understood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svensson Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Kloster said: Completely agree. This is exactly what we have understood. But aren't Aeolians considered heretics by True Orlanthi? For some reason I believe that to be true but it beats me where I got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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