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Beorne

Where to start in Glorantha

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I do not know if I will able to start to master a Glorantha game, I quitted mastering about 20 years ago and the ex-players are on real life issues. But I encountered the game Dragon Pass some years ago, and discovered Glorantha.
I do not know it well yet but have the strong impression that is perhaps one of the more beatiful and realistic fantasy world ever created. And, more important for me, it is a work of love.
So I'd like to start to study it.
I'm starting to obtain the material, so I ask you: where to start?
Runequest Roleplaying in Glorantha?
Heroquest Glorantha?
Glorantha Sourcebook?
Guide to Glorantha?
I am more into simulation rpg than into narrative (I think, never tried them), but I like to read RPG rules. Anyway, I do not know if I will ever play HeroQuest or RuneQuest and it is possible I will never be able to start a game.
This reminds me another question: what is the most played ruleset on Glorantha?

Thanks.

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I'd start with the Glorantha Sourcebook, see if you like the world, since I think that matters more than the ruleset. Grab the PDF. 

https://www.chaosium.com/the-glorantha-sourcebook-pdf/

I'd lean toward RQG if you like simulationist games. Runequest is very much in that camp and the new edition is really well done.

I think the most played ruleset for Glorantha is some version of Runequest.

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Right now I would start with Prince of Sartar for a nice read to get some flavor and an insight into the core story of the upcoming hero wars.

There are other works of fiction on Glorantha, but those are hard to find.

The Glorantha Sourcebook probably is the best introduction of the background at all because it provides digestible info.

After that, one of the introductory sets of one of the official game settings.

The Guide is way too complete for someone on his first approach to Glorantha - reading and digesting it unprepared might be the equivalent to a college course. It becomes necessary when you decide to get a wider look with quite good overview - it shows even smaller cities on its maps and provides at least a short sentence for most.

 

Exploring Glorantha through roleplaying:

Right now, HeroQuest Glorantha provides the best detail information on Sartar, the core region from which the Hero Wars are explored. Between Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, Sartar Companion, The Coming Storm and The Eleven Lights you should get gaming material for more than a year of weekly sessions, without even taking the trip to Pavis: Gateway to Adventure. The material is set about four years earlier than that of RuneQuest Glorantha. The related material for HeroQuest 1 and Hero Wars (available from the Vault at Chaosium.com) expands that again. There doesn't appear to be a way to get the HQ1 rules or the Hero Wars rules book any more except second hand or from online traders.

The material RuneQuest 2 (aka Classic) is set about another four years earlier than HeroQuest Glorantha and covers mostly Prax and Pavis, with Balazar as another border region in which you can escape the Lunar occupation of Sartar. Without the troll material, I guess you have at least 30 sessions of gaming from scenarios and encounters.

Troll Pak (both RQ2 and RQ3, with RQ3 separating it into two boxed sets and a separate scenario booklet while adding only some additional information to the RQ2 product) offers all you need to play in Glorantha from a troll perspective. You get scenarios good for probably more than a dozen sessions, quite a bit of sandbox, and lots of cultural information.

RuneQuest 3rd edition had little in the way of new scenarios, and what it did in the ways of world presentation has been soaked up by the Guide. The main exception are the so-called RuneQuest (3) Renaissance books Sun County, River of Cradles (half of which was a reprint of sections from the Pavis Box, but the other half has a heroquesty RQ scenario series good for probably a dozen sessions), Shadows on the Borderlands (scenarios), Strangers in Prax (powerful NPCs and plot hooks around them), and the outlyer Dorastor: Land of Doom which plays quite a bit away and offers a small campaign in the setting of the old Cults of Terror Book, and the accompanying Lords of Terror reprint and expansion on Cults of Terror.

13th Age Glorantha provides quite a bit of directly gameable material, but there has been no additional material announced yet.

RuneQuest Glorantha is where most of the publication efforts for Glorantha happen now.

 

Taking the scholar's approach:

Again, start with the Sourcebook, but also take a look at the Guide with its introductory stuff. Then grab HQ Glorantha and Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes to get into how experiencing Glorantha as a Sartarite would look like.

Then take King of Sartar, the probably most confusing book written for any fantasy setting, presented as a collection of in-world documents. Reading the HQ Sartar material before reading King of Sartar really is cheating, if you want to experience the same detective work us old-timers had trying to piece together what Glorantha is about. Cross-check with the relevant regional sections in the Guide.

Try to get your hands on Trollpak. The RQ Classic edition should become available in the near future. Read Uz Lore, which has the history of trollkind in Glorantha. A fascinating read, and a force ride through the prehistory and history of Glorantha, giving you one greater picture.

What comes next is the path of obsession. The old hands among us have trodden it for decades.. If you still are undeterred, read some more Guide, and pick up the volumes of the Stafford Library - Glorious ReAscent of Yelm, The Fortunate Succession, The Entekosiad, Revealed Mythologies, Middle Sea Empire, History of the Heortling Peoples, Esrolia: Land of 10,000 Goddesses, Heortling Mythology. Pick these as you see fit to discover Glorantha through myth and history. Save Arcane Lore for a later read. Get hold of the various other official Glorantha publications, and whatever you can and want to digest of the fan-produced stuff, including the back log of this forum, the RuneQuest and Glorantha digest archives, copies of the old fanzines if you can get your hands on them. Reserve a few square meters of shelf space for all of that unless you are comfortable studying this from pdfs.

Play the official Glorantha board games (Dragon Pass, Nomad Gods, Khan of Khans, Gods War) and computer games (King of Dragon Pass, Six Ages).

You might want to check for material that is not official any more, or never quite was, like the Mongoose Glorantha Second Age stuff which probably is only available second hand as the license has expired, and various fan-made things like e.g. the Britannia board game adaptations for various areas of Glorantha by Keith Nellist.

And participate in the discussions here. (You can start with that right now by asking a few detail questions.)

10 minutes ago, Beorne said:

what is the most played ruleset on Glorantha?

Given the fact that RQG is in its second print run, it might take the lead before the other systems like RQ2, RQ3+homebrew, HQ1, HQ2/G, 13th Age Glorantha and homebrew adaptations of other game systems.

If you look into the past and sum up all gaming sessions, RQ2 probably wins hands down because it has been around for more than fourty years and never entirely given up. Also, the recent re-release of it has re-kindled OSR RuneQuesting with RQ2.

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16 minutes ago, Joerg said:

...

Troll Pak (both RQ2 and RQ3, with RQ3 separating it into two boxed sets and a separate scenario booklet while adding only some additional information to the RQ2 product) offers all you need to play in Glorantha from a troll perspective. You get scenarios good for probably more than a dozen sessions, quite a bit of sandbox, and lots of cultural information.

...

And if you really consider to go into that direction (Trolls), keep it mind, what I've read in the beginning eighties of the last century (man, I'm really old ...), when I had my first contact with Glorantha:

Quote

Forget anything you've ever heard about Trolls - these Trolls are different!

This sentence was one of the things, that hooked me up with Glorantha. The other one was:
"I have several characters prepared for this game. A Humakti (kind of a warrior-priest), a barbarian, a nomad and a duck ..."
"What? A duck?"
"Yes, you can play a duck in Glorantha."
"That's my character!"

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A copy of RQII and Apple Lane. Ignore everything else until you have played the 2 adventures. Nothing will make sense but believe me it will be heaps of fun.

What ever happens in those will be your Glorantha.

Then buy some other books, cherry pick what you like and then spend the rest of your life arguing over whether or not Lunars wear sandals or boots when visiting their grandmother.

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So no RQG to start?

What is 13th age Glorantha?

The various RQ have the same or different geographic/age settings? And the various HQ?

Does have any sense to study the older RQ or HQ manuals?

Thanks

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1 hour ago, Beorne said:

I do not know if I will able to start to master a Glorantha game, I quitted mastering about 20 years ago and the ex-players are on real life issues. But I encountered the game Dragon Pass some years ago, and discovered Glorantha.
I do not know it well yet but have the strong impression that is perhaps one of the more beatiful and realistic fantasy world ever created. And, more important for me, it is a work of love.
So I'd like to start to study it.
I'm starting to obtain the material, so I ask you: where to start?
Runequest Roleplaying in Glorantha?
Heroquest Glorantha?
Glorantha Sourcebook?
Guide to Glorantha?
I am more into simulation rpg than into narrative (I think, never tried them), but I like to read RPG rules. Anyway, I do not know if I will ever play HeroQuest or RuneQuest and it is possible I will never be able to start a game.
This reminds me another question: what is the most played ruleset on Glorantha?

Thanks.

Both RQ:G and HQ:G have basic introductions to the world, so you might do best to look (only) at the introductory chapters, and then perhaps the Sourcebook. The Guide is more a reference book than a book to be read from cover to cover, so you might find the early chapters about geography, pantheons, cultures useful, and then the chapter on the region you are likely to play in. (If you chose Dragon Pass you might find The HQ:G book The Coming Storm of use, even if you don't play using that system, or using that clan.)

Having digested that, consider the rules you are most likely to use, and delve into them. Avoid deep background at first. Glorantha is a world you can play in with a basic understanding - there's no requirement to dig too deep until you want to. The level of detail available can be daunting, but you don't need to know it all: people were playing RuneQuest when only the rulebook and a few books and scenario packs were available so it is hardly essential, until and unless you want the greater depth. 

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26 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

A copy of RQII and Apple Lane. Ignore everything else until you have played the 2 adventures. Nothing will make sense but believe me it will be heaps of fun.

What ever happens in those will be your Glorantha.

Then buy some other books, cherry pick what you like and then spend the rest of your life arguing over whether or not Lunars wear sandals or boots when visiting their grandmother.

Are you trying to scare me? ;)

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36 minutes ago, Beorne said:

So no RQG to start?

Starting with RQG is supposed to be fine. Indeed, start testing the quickstart adventure made for just this purpose. It just isn't how the majority of us here in the forum encountered Glorantha.

Quote

What is 13th age Glorantha?

13th Age is the D20 system created by Jonathan Tweet and Rob Heinsoo, who were lead designers in D&D 3 and 4, respectively, and went on to produce a D20 game like they wanted to do rather than what Wizards of the Coast tasked them to produce. 13th Age Glorantha is the adaptation of that game system to the setting of Glorantha, and is supposed to be the easiest way to keep the D&D mindset when playing in Glorantha. I have yet to play any 13th Age or 13th Age Glorantha, and have had only a very superficial look at those rules, so I am hardly qualified to say more about it.

Quote

The various RQ have the same or different geographic/age settings? And the various HQ?

Dragon Pass or Prax are the default. Dorastor: Land of Doom and Griffin Mountain move closer to the Lunar empire, but remain on the fringe of Orlanthi dominated lands. The Troll material plays mostly in Dagori Inkarth, a narrow stripe of highlands north of Prax and east of Sartar, so basically the same region.

The HQ1 era brought "Men of the Sea", an excellent book for naval campaigns on Glorantha, if subject to an outdated depiction of the Malkioni and way too many subcults compared to RQG or HQG, and the fun but no longer canonical "Blood over Gold" campaign for the Trader Princes of Wenelia, to the west of Esrolia.

 

The Chaosium RQ2 house campaign actually played through the Starbrow rebellion of 1613, with the player characters taking significant parts of the action and in part forcing the major leaders' hands. The Borderlands campaign starts around the same time. The Pavis scenarios end with the Cradle Scenario which takes place in early 1621.

 

The Mongoose Second Age Glorantha RuneQuest line had a few very shiny pearls, is brimming with interesting twists or at least alternatives for Glorantha, but suffered from rushed publication schedules and too little fact checking despite the fact that Greg's company Issaries Inc that licensed Glorantha at the time had a number of volunteers to provide such support to writers.

With its out-of-print status, there is little point in hunting this stuff down unless you are absolutely willing to game in this past of Glorantha. And even then, the Guide to Glorantha is the better source for many of the places and events than the world book from that series. If you can get the stuff at a bargain, go for it, as it has cool ideas and descriptions. It is just a very variant Glorantha in a lot of regards.

Quote

Does have any sense to study the older RQ or HQ manuals?

They have the advantage of being really cheap, and the three "Sartar Rising" scenario and background booklets provide good and still quite canonical material for the years 1620 to 1623.

Anything RQ Glorantha with the Chaosium logo on it is worth having for rational prices, IMO. The Hero Wars and HQ1 material may have run somewhat astray, but still provides good reads or insights, but without the rules books and subsequent rewrites of regional info they may lead to a quite variant view of Glorantha. Nothing wrong with that, really.

Much of the material in Storm Tribe and Thunder Rebels has been re-written in a system agnostic way in the Heortling Mythology booklet from the Stafford library, which is a lot less divergent.

 

Nobody is trying to scare you. Perhaps @Iskallor was trying to dare you instead.

In terms of time you invest, RQ2 plus Apple Lane might be the quickest way besides the RQG quickstart. I'd still advocate the RQG quickstart for a first taste as it is mostly consistent with the current rules and material in the line.

Edited by Joerg
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@Joerg  That's a full curriculum for embarking on a journey to Glorantha!

I got into Glorantha through Hero Wars in the early 2000s so I'm a neophyte Gloranthan gamer. I've not played RQG, yet (maybe starting a campaign with a group very soon), but it's probably the easiest route to get started with Glorantha RPGs. While I can't recommend Heroquest Glorantha highly enough, since the original poster leans toward simulationist RPGs, RQG would probably serve you well to start. The core book has enough background in it to get the flavor of Glorantha without a big expense and numerous books.

As for 13th Age Glorantha: I've read it and one of my 13th Age players and I sat down for a character creation session one afternoon. It's very good if you like d20 system games. Since we were already familiar with 13th Age (I've been running a 13th Age campaign since 2013) it was an easy affair. I'll run it sometime in the future once we tire of the current 13th Age campaign. Anyway, if you're familiar with 13th Age or d20 (and liked 4th edition DnD) then 13th Age Glorantha is worth checking out. It also has just enough Glorantha background to get you a good taste of the world, cultures, runes, etc. IMHO 13G has more rules for Heroquesting than any of the other currently published Gloranthan RPG books.

Edited by borbetomagnus
corrected "we're" to "we were"
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1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:

Having digested that, consider the rules you are most likely to use, and delve into them. Avoid deep background at first. Glorantha is a world you can play in with a basic understanding - there's no requirement to dig too deep until you want to. The level of detail available can be daunting, but you don't need to know it all: people were playing RuneQuest when only the rulebook and a few books and scenario packs were available so it is hardly essential, until and unless you want the greater depth. 

Yes but now I'm more interested in the world from a literary / scholar point of view, I don't know if I will ever be able to set up a table, but I love well detailed, realistic and original fantasy worlds.

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3 minutes ago, Beorne said:

Yes but now I'm more interested in the world from a literary / scholar point of view, I don't know if I will ever be able to set up a table, but I love well detailed, realistic and original fantasy worlds.

Oh, if you only would know, how much I can understand that ...🙂

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14 minutes ago, borbetomagnus said:

@Joerg  That's a full curriculum for embarking on a journey to Glorantha!

I got into Glorantha through Hero Wars in the early 2000s so I'm a neophyte Gloranthan gamer. I've not played RQG, yet (maybe starting a campaign with a group very soon), but it's probably the easiest route to get started with Glorantha RPGs. While I can't recommend Heroquest Glorantha highly enough, since the original poster leans toward simulationist RPGs, RQG would probably serve you well to start. The core book has enough background in it to get the flavor of Glorantha without a big expense and numerous books.

As for 13th Age Glorantha: I've read it and one of my 13th Age players and I sat down for a character creation session one afternoon. It's very good if you like d20 system games. Since we were already familiar with 13th Age (I've been running a 13th Age campaign since 2013) it was an easy affair. I'll run it sometime in the future once we tire of the current 13th Age campaign. Anyway, if you're familiar with 13th Age or d20 (and liked 4th edition DnD) then 13th Age Glorantha is worth checking out. It also has just enough Glorantha background to get you a good taste of the world, cultures, runes, etc. IMHO 13G has more rules for Heroquesting than any of the other currently published Gloranthan RPG books.

To tell you the truth I never played narrative based RPG like RQ, and it is possible I like them, I don't know. When I quitted gaming they were at the very start. Maybe it will be a pleasant discovery.

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2 minutes ago, Beorne said:

To tell you the truth I never played narrative based RPG like RQ, and it is possible I like them, I don't know. When I quitted gaming they were at the very start. Maybe it will be a pleasant discovery.

Hi @Beorne

I love the narrative style of Heroquest (Heroquest 2 and Heroquest Glorantha), and if you're interested in experiencing it then the Heroquest Glorantha book is the core rulebook. There are a few campaign guides and campaign adventures for it available (Eleven Lights, Sartar Campaign, et al). To get started quickly you can look at the Robin D. Laws advice chapbook Sharper Adventures in Heroquest Glorantha, and view the 55 minute Youtube video where Robin goes through a step-by-step example of using the techniques from Sharper Adventures in Heroquest Glorantha at the 2016 Kraken convention.

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7 minutes ago, Beorne said:

Yes but now I'm more interested in the world from a literary / scholar point of view, I don't know if I will ever be able to set up a table, but I love well detailed, realistic and original fantasy worlds.

Then the Sourcebook and the Guide are your best starting points.

Be warned that as you dig deeper, you will find that at times Glorantha is intentionally contradictory, because the same myth, or historical event, viewed by two different cultures is rarely identical. This is also apparent in documents written as though from an in-world perspective, and you will find that certain 'facts' are debatable (the Goddess of Truth was a casualty in the Gods War before Time) and absolutes are rarely as solid as they seem.

Some treat this as a problem with the setting, but it contributes to its richness.

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9 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

Some treat this as a problem with the setting, but it contributes to its richness.

Glorantha is rich indeed. And I find the intentional contradictions an accurate model of how real world myths and religions are interpreted in different ways by various societies and cultures.

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@Beorne A lot of games have this problem. There's so much lore and canon that it's really easy to get overwhelmed.

My suggestion is this:

Start small and work outwards. Pavis is a good spot to start a campaign. It has a large amount of lore [if that's what you want], ready-made dungeons all over the place [if that's what you want], and a wide open frontier. It's the crossroads to several different cultures, with every major race present. And it's also kind of out of the way of the major events of the near future [Argrath's assault on the Lunar Empire and the Red Moon], so you have a little wiggle room in order to tie the characters into the main epic if that's what they want to do.

As to rules-sets, I really prefer RQG because it does a good job of giving the character a history and a sense of 'place'. In my experience this grounding goes a long way in getting the player invested with his character. You know the people you want at your table and whether they'll accept a random die-roll history [as opposed to one they cook up themselves], but I've put together about 5 characters now and I rather like it myself.

Welcome to the net.

 

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2 hours ago, Beorne said:
3 hours ago, Iskallor said:

Then buy some other books, cherry pick what you like and then spend the rest of your life arguing over whether or not Lunars wear sandals or boots when visiting their grandmother.

Are you trying to scare me? ;)

No, I believe he is trying to either scare the Lunar of possibly your grandmother.

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2 hours ago, Beorne said:

Yes but now I'm more interested in the world from a literary / scholar point of view, I don't know if I will ever be able to set up a table, but I love well detailed, realistic and original fantasy worlds.

Given your noted perspective:

  • King of Sartar - this has the central conflict of Glorantha in narrative plus many other intriguing bits about the world set around the central question: Who was Argrath?
  • Prince of Sartar comic - free, online - it's not complete but you get to meet the central players from several perspectives
  • Glorantha Sourcebook - outlines history of Dragon Pass, the Elder Races, the pantheons of the gods, and the history of the Lunar Empire
  • for full immersion, the Guide to Glorantha - the whole world outlined including the Sky, the seas, and more

There's lots of other directions from those, many of which published in associations with the various Glorantha games, but the above will keep you going for a long while and are richly detailed and original.

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2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Given your noted perspective:

  • King of Sartar - this has the central conflict of Glorantha in narrative plus many other intriguing bits about the world set around the central question: Who was Argrath?
  • Prince of Sartar comic - free, online - it's not complete but you get to meet the central players from several perspectives
  • Glorantha Sourcebook - outlines history of Dragon Pass, the Elder Races, the pantheons of the gods, and the history of the Lunar Empire
  • for full immersion, the Guide to Glorantha - the whole world outlined including the Sky, the seas, and more

There's lots of other directions from those, many of which published in associations with the various Glorantha games, but the above will keep you going for a long while and are richly detailed and original.

The Prince of Sartar comic was my main introduction to the universe, it is a great, vivid look into Glorantha with a fairly low bar of entry. It also preserves some of the esoteric "don't think too hard about this right now, you'll get into it later" feel of a lot of Glorantha texts.

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20 hours ago, Beorne said:

I do not know if I will able to start to master a Glorantha game, I quitted mastering about 20 years ago and the ex-players are on real life issues. But I encountered the game Dragon Pass some years ago, and discovered Glorantha.
I do not know it well yet but have the strong impression that is perhaps one of the more beatiful and realistic fantasy world ever created. And, more important for me, it is a work of love.
So I'd like to start to study it.
I'm starting to obtain the material, so I ask you: where to start?
Runequest Roleplaying in Glorantha?
Heroquest Glorantha?
Glorantha Sourcebook?
Guide to Glorantha?
I am more into simulation rpg than into narrative (I think, never tried them), but I like to read RPG rules. Anyway, I do not know if I will ever play HeroQuest or RuneQuest and it is possible I will never be able to start a game.
This reminds me another question: what is the most played ruleset on Glorantha?

Thanks.

I'd suggest starting with RQG and the Glorantha Sourcebook. Then if you want a comprehensive treatment of the setting, get the Guide. But any are fine places to start.

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Being a relative newcomer to Runequest myself, I found that because the setting and the rules are so intertwined  and so exhuastive (runes, cults etc) , you do need to acrue a good deal of knowledge about both before the RQG penny (or bolg) drops. If you're  not overwhelmed, you're  not paying attention. I'd bought all the RQG books, the quickstart, the source book, found the online comic, found the wiki,  and  read them all. But it wasn't until I got the King of Sartar in recent drivethrurpg sale that I was comfortable enough to feel consciously ignorant, and start thinking about taking the finacial plunge for the guide. In other words, just read everything until it clicks. Good luck!

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5 hours ago, Sid Vicarious said:

Being a relative newcomer to Runequest myself, I found that because the setting and the rules are so intertwined  and so exhuastive (runes, cults etc) , you do need to acrue a good deal of knowledge about both before the RQG penny (or bolg) drops. If you're  not overwhelmed, you're  not paying attention. I'd bought all the RQG books, the quickstart, the source book, found the online comic, found the wiki,  and  read them all. But it wasn't until I got the King of Sartar in recent drivethrurpg sale that I was comfortable enough to feel consciously ignorant, and start thinking about taking the finacial plunge for the guide. In other words, just read everything until it clicks. Good luck!

RQ is like the Forgotten Realms, Traveller, L5R, and other games... the well of lore and canon is a deep as you want to swim in. For a lot of people, this is pretty daunting. They worry more about being lore-correct than actually getting in there and playing.

That is the absolute wrong way to approach Glorantha.

Just find a small out of the way corner... Apple Lane, for example... generate some characters and jump in. Introduce the lore in small chunks. The players don't need to know all the meta-plot stuff at once, just what is relevant to them and their adventures of the moment. Let's face it, an expedition to the Rainbow Mounds [a bandit lair in the Apple Lane adventure] has about as much to do with Orlanth and the Red Goddess as stealing mushrooms from Farmer Maggot's Farm does to Sauron in LOTR.

Edited by svensson
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