What the heck... Check that out!

[Bill the barbarian]

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Perhaps there should be a line in the rules saying that SOI can be skipped if your group is comfortable with a more free-flowing combat system.

 

I truly enjoyed Nash and Whitaker's take on, take-it-or-leave-it, modularity in RQ6. Don't like it, remove it wholesale, like it—slide it right in. Very refreshing. AND VERY EASILY DONE (built right into the rules it seems)!

Edited April 16, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

8 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yeah, I apologize, that was unfair of me to paint that in such a broad brush. I started roleplaying at the age of 12, by my later teens I was more mature. Apologies also for derailing this thread!

 

As the creator of the thread I have always been a little lenient about this kind of thang (derailments and all) and honestly I even encourage it. I hope no one minds that my joints are a bit looser than the norm (hey Norm, do you mind... Nah, it's cool Bill... See?) 

The gems that come out are still there and the sidetracks give the thread breath and give the mind a rest (a sherbet between courses to please the palette, if you will). The comment was a definite what the heck, type, (that those who create the rules might well play fast and loose with said rules is almost up there with finding out you parents have and had lives without you). and you were simply responding to it. Hell, you even apologized for hijacking the  thread and painting a whole group of folk with a broad brush. How Canadian of ya, eh? I am not sure I can agree that an apology is needed but having to work with americans all the time I realize that we canadians apologize an awful lot.

cheers

[g33k]

48 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I truly enjoyed Nash and Whitaker's take on, take-it-or-leave-it, modularity in RQ6. Don't like it, remove it wholesale, like it—slide it right in. Very refreshing. AND VERY EASILY DONE (built right into the rules it seems)!

The interoperability of the various subsystems of the d100 family of games has long been a strength.  Nash&Whitaker may have polished this and presented it as a gem of the system (and it is!), but the idea of a "FrankenBRP" game, stitched-together from multiple other BRP-family games, predates even Mongoose's (let alone TDM's) licensing.

It is STILL a feature of the family of games!

You loving the Rune-Affinity and Rune-Augment rules of RQG, but basically prefer Mythras?   *z*i*n*g*SPARKLE*Shazaam!   The RQG subsystem is embedded in Mythras.

Really love Mythras'  "Special Effects" over the whole crit/fumble mechanism from your otherwise-preferred RQG?     *RIP*SLAM*done.   Special Effects in RQG.

General HP's vs. Location-based vs Major/Minor Wounds -- yeah, pick whichever YOUR table prefers; any will work, and work well.

Several folks reporting they bring the RD100 broad/general skills-system over into whatever other BRP they are playing; I believe this wheel is simple and obvious enough that they are each just reinventing it, not sharing any laboriously-constructed Rules-Port.etc etc etc.

BRP is f'ing ROBUST, both in the "lots of options available" sense and the "easily tweaking in any direction without breaking" sense.

 😁

 

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

BRP is f'ing ROBUST, both in the "lots of options available" sense and the "easily tweaking in any direction without breaking" sense.

 

Yeah, you got that right. I am not even sure the new kids can break it... <grin>

... aw c'mon... I said grin! Hey, gimmee back my access...

[Shiningbrow]

10 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Purloined from a variety of people in the thread RQ with Less Theism, Thanks fro finding this Kloster!

RQG p 418 Power Gain Roll through Spirit Combat

Yes, in addition to the (new) gains with worship and battle.

I always thought that Power gain rolls through Spirit Combat were normal (assuming it wasn't a 95% success). So, does that mean if you go adventuring, you'll most likely get *two* POW gain rolls - once for the spell/spirit combat, and once for the Holy Day services?

 

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I always thought that Power gain rolls through Spirit Combat were normal (assuming it wasn't a 95% success). So, does that mean if you go adventuring, you'll most likely get *two* POW gain rolls - once for the spell/spirit combat, and once for the Holy Day services?

 

I would say 'Yes', but be careful, you have to obtain a success (with a probability of less than 95%) in the POW vs POW resistance roll. I don't remember if it was already the case in the previous iterations, but this makes it far more difficult for low POW characters to obtain a POW gain roll than in RQIII.

[Shiningbrow]

7 minutes ago, Kloster said:

I would say 'Yes', but be careful, you have to obtain a success (with a probability of less than 95%) in the POW vs POW resistance roll. I don't remember if it was already the case in the previous iterations, but this makes it far more difficult for low POW characters to obtain a POW gain roll than in RQIII.

Confused.... An average human would have POW 11. To get a 95% success rate, you'd need to have POW 20, or up against something at POW 2... The new rules also allow for a Augment.

If you're average POW for a human (11), then you'd have a 50% chance of a POW gain. (plus some on Holy Days, if GM allows the Worship to Augment the gain roll).

I don't immediately recall RQIII, but I thought they were basically the same percentages.

[Kloster]

9 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Confused.... An average human would have POW 11. To get a 95% success rate, you'd need to have POW 20, or up against something at POW 2... The new rules also allow for a Augment.

If you're average POW for a human (11), then you'd have a 50% chance of a POW gain. (plus some on Holy Days, if GM allows the Worship to Augment the gain roll).

I don't immediately recall RQIII, but I thought they were basically the same percentages.

The difference with RQIII is not the difficulty of the gain roll, but the difficulty to obtain a gain roll: In RQIII, the spell resistance is made by MP vs MP, so if you have a low POW (and thus low MP), you could wait for your opponents to spend their MP and keep yours. In that case, your probability to affect your opponent increases. With RQG, it's always POW vs POW and if you have a 5 POW, it will be very difficult to affect somebody successfully and thus to obtain the POW gain roll.

[Shiningbrow]

12 minutes ago, Kloster said:

The difference with RQIII is not the difficulty of the gain roll, but the difficulty to obtain a gain roll: In RQIII, the spell resistance is made by MP vs MP, so if you have a low POW (and thus low MP), you could wait for your opponents to spend their MP and keep yours. In that case, your probability to affect your opponent increases. With RQG, it's always POW vs POW and if you have a 5 POW, it will be very difficult to affect somebody successfully and thus to obtain the POW gain roll.

Right... (Yeah, I thought  previous iterations was current MP, not POW).

Your tactic is... worrying. Allowing your enemy to cast spells while you sit back and wait. 95% of the time, you won't have any idea what their POW, nor current MPs are, let alone what spells they have. So, casting up front would make more sense. I think it'd be rare that a character will have a 95% success rate. I'd suggest most times you're better off throwing the spells you need quickly, on the hope that they'll fail the resistance, rather than wait for a more 'opportune' time (which may never come about, if the enemy decides to throw a Befuddle and you fail your roll).

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Right... (Yeah, I thought  previous iterations was current MP, not POW).

Your tactic is... worrying. Allowing your enemy to cast spells while you sit back and wait. 95% of the time, you won't have any idea what their POW, nor current MPs are, let alone what spells they have. So, casting up front would make more sense. I think it'd be rare that a character will have a 95% success rate. I'd suggest most times you're better off throwing the spells you need quickly, on the hope that they'll fail the resistance, rather than wait for a more 'opportune' time (which may never come about, if the enemy decides to throw a Befuddle and you fail your roll).

The tactic was to use MP from storage while the opposition would spend personal ones - preferrably protected by Countermagic or similar.

But my question is: does successfully resisting an enemy's attempt to cast a Befuddle, Disrupt or Sever Spirit earn you a POW check, or does only the active spell caster get a check in case of success?

Edited April 17, 2019 by Joerg

[Kloster]

28 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The tactic was to use MP from storage while the opposition would spend personal ones - preferrably protected by Countermagic or similar.

But my question is: does successfully resisting an enemy's attempt to cast a Befuddle, Disrupt or Sever Spirit earn you a POW check, or does only the active spell caster get a check in case of success?

According to RQG p 418, both.

[Joerg]

3 hours ago, Kloster said:

According to RQG p 418, both.

In that case, a sorcerer (or other character) who regular gets targeted by Disrupts or spirits doesn't really need any offensive magic...

And to address the "less than 95% chance" - that applies to Spirit Block in Spirit Combat and similar protective measures.

[styopa]

5 hours ago, Kloster said:

According to RQG p 418, both.

Wait, you get a POW check for resisting?

Checking, and yeah, that seems to be the implied intent of the paragraph:

Quote

If an adventurer obtains a success either attacking or parrying during spirit combat, POW can be increased or wth successful POW vs. POW resistance roll. Spells that have a 95% chance of success against an enemy do not provide sufficient stress to allow a POW gain roll.

There are two assertions:

- you get a POW gain check for successfully attacking "or parrying" in spirit combat. - as far as I understand it, Spirit combat is now resolved with a single opposed roll, so I'm not sure what 'parrying' in Spirit Combat means?  I assume it means 'winning' even if you're not on the attack?  But considering you could get that result with both actually failing ...that seems odd.  Anyway...

- you get a POW gain check with a success in any POW/POW resistance contest

So for the latter, yes, @Kloster seems to be correct....although I'd submit there's room for interpretation here?  I'd probably interpret that you have to be the active party on the resistance check - ie the aggressor - to get the check.  It just seems odd to me that Bumble the Useless, luckily somehow avoiding being prey to the spirits he's CONSTANTLY accidentally running into and managing to survive, somehow could gain a godly level of POW for it.

 

Edited April 17, 2019 by styopa

[PhilHibbs]

6 hours ago, styopa said:

Wait, you get a POW check for resisting?

That's always been the case in all versions of RuneQuest. Any spiritual struggle, the winner gets a gain check. *Edit* Spirit combat only, not spells. Thanks @styopa.

6 hours ago, styopa said:

It just seems odd to me that Bumble the Useless, luckily somehow avoiding being prey to the spirits he's CONSTANTLY accidentally running into and managing to survive, somehow could gain a godly level of POW for it.

Same way that ducks get good at fighting by being constantly picked on and fighting off their attackers. By saying "somehow" and calling him "the useless" and calling it "lucky" you are unfairly stacking the language against him and presenting the illusion that it is odd. Yes, if you are constantly engaging in spirit combat, and constantly beating them, yes your POW goes up. Should it make a difference whether you sought out the spirit combat, or were the target? Why are spirits constantly attacking Bumble, maybe they are jealous of the great destiny that they sense in him!

Edited April 17, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[PhilHibbs]

Back onto "What the heck check that out" features, if you beat off a Disease Spirit you immediately gain 1D3 POW. Bestiary p.169. Risky, but lucrative.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Same way that ducks get good at fighting by being constantly picked on and fighting off their attackers. By saying "somehow" and calling him "the useless" and calling it "lucky" you are unfairly stacking the language against him and presenting the illusion that it is odd. Yes, if you are constantly engaging in spirit combat, and constantly beating them, yes your POW goes up. Should it make a difference whether you sought out the spirit combat, or were the target? Why are spirits constantly attacking Bumble, maybe they are jealous of the great destiny that they sense in him!

Is there a specific ruling that says the 'attack' needs to be a valid attack? Or, could you just have fun throwing Befuddle on your mates, and get a POW gain from that?

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Back onto "What the heck check that out" features, if you beat off a Disease Spirit you immediately gain 1D3 POW. Bestiary p.169. Risky, but lucrative.

WTF!!! Sounds like an awesome way for a shaman (in particular) to get a heap of POW (or, anyone else who can get a summon & control disease spirit). It's only risky if you don't prepare for it well enough.

Legitimately, a shaman of a tribe or clan should have the spell to summon a few diseases, and get various members of the clan immunity for a year (as well as the POW check).

[Richard S.]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Back onto "What the heck check that out" features, if you beat off a Disease Spirit you immediately gain 1D3 POW. Bestiary p.169. Risky, but lucrative.

Mallia Shamans must be stacked (in POW).

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Is there a specific ruling that says the 'attack' needs to be a valid attack?

p418:

Quote

Increasing POW Through Spell Use or Spirit Combat
POW can increase because of use of POW during situations
of stress. An adventurer can attract POW from the universe
with the high emotional output found during a crisis.

 

[styopa]

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

That's always been the case in all versions of RuneQuest. Any spiritual struggle, the winner gets a gain check.

Nope, not really even close.  RQ3, Book 1, page 38: "When a spell using adventurer matches magic points against a target's magic points on the resistance table, then the Attackers POW (the source of the active influence) has a chance to increase if the attack succeeds."

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Same way that ducks get good at fighting by being constantly picked on and fighting off their attackers. 

That's conclusively different, eg the 'fighting off' bit.  ACTIVE ACTION. 

Saying that POW can increase because something attacked you is like saying you actually get to be a better fighter because someone punches you ...provably not true.

Quote

Increasing POW Through Spell Use or Spirit Combat
POW can increase because of use of POW during situations of stress. An adventurer can attract POW from the universe with the high emotional output found during a crisis.

Even sillier.  You get POW from being stressed?  What if you fall off a cliff?  Your house is on fire?  Have to take a really hard test?  Aren't sure your date's going to show up?  Your dog is lost?

[seneschal]

“Hulk smash puny broo!  Hulk is the POW-est there is!”  😉

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, styopa said:

Nope, not really even close.  RQ3, Book 1, page 38: "When a spell using adventurer..."

Well, I was close, because I was mainly talking about spirit combat, but yes you're right you didn't get them for resisting spells. And you still don't, so no change here at all. Bumble the Unlucky always was on a path to POW gain.

Edited April 17, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Kloster]

I was not able to check previous versions before, but yes, it was not possible to get an increase roll by resisting spells (although I know GM that allowed it). But now, I understand it is possible: The rule is called 'Increasing POW Through Spell Use or Spirit Combat' and says 'with a successful POW vs POW roll' (with a typo).

[PhilHibbs]

p417:

Quote

POW Increase
POW can be increased through spell use, spirit combat,
by participating in or leading Worship ceremonies, or
through training.

p418:

Quote

Spells that have
a 95% chance of success against an enemy do not provide
sufficient stress to allow a POW gain roll.

I think it's pretty clear that only the caster gets the chance of a gain roll. This is in line with all prior editions.

[Bill the barbarian]

Hmm, some hits, some misses, some explorations down rabbit holes to the profit of all and a few yuks, Great thread all, thanx!

Doesn't mean you get to stop yet! I bet we can still find some items that cause jaws to drop!

Cheers

[Bill the barbarian]

Okay, this qualifies.

How many of you know that Ride (___) 5% handles experience gain rolls in it's own unique way and did so back way in RQ 2 (I have not checked RQ 3)? Not me, but there it is in glorious colour in the RQ RiG book page 167 or b&w in RQ 2 page 52:

An adventurer may attempt an experience increase roll for Ride only when the gamemaster allows it. One or more of the following conditions should be met:

• The adventurer has lived through a melee in which they at least started riding (they may realize why they fell off ).


• The adventurer has made a riding animal do something they never made it do before.


• The adventurer has completed a mostly mounted journey of at least a week through difficult terrain.

• The adventurer has successfully trained a riding animal to saddle and bridle.

Some explanation for this comes in the paragraph before:

The percentage ability to ride is also the rider’s chance to make a mount do something it hasn’t done before, such as jumping a barrier...  etc. 
emphasis in the quoted rules to draw out points are mine.

 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bill the barbarian