Joerg Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 48 minutes ago, metcalph said: Who said anything about Cults? I didn't know Cults were credit lending institutions. Ransom for most gloranthans who have one is their own wealth stored with some friendlies to be paid out in the event of capture. That's how it is depicted in RQ2. Sure, but RQ2 had nothing about the weregeld economy. Cults do act as bail lenders to members in good standing. And the friendlies in good standing keeping the valuables for the characters are quite likely their clan and/or their cult - everyone else trustworthy is in the same situation as themselves. As Joe Nobody of the Orlmarth, I do expect my clan to cough up my weregeld in cash should I come into a ransom situation. And once I paid that back by extra effort or similar, I am eligible again. 48 minutes ago, metcalph said: Look at it from the captor's point of view. We caught him once before and got his ransom. We just caught him again. Why should we believe our captive's promises that more money will be forthcoming? Why in the world shouldn't it? People invest (e.g. in herds), and those investments may return more profit that is eaten up by their daily demands. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Joerg said: Sure, but RQ2 had nothing about the weregeld economy. May be because we're not talking about werguild but ransom. Since you are persist with unsupported assertions and inability to stay on topic (cults, wereguild), I don't see any value in debating matters further with you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 49 minutes ago, ChalkLine said: Your god wouldn't care what the situation is, only your intent. You are now making into highly specific statements about what a god does and does not know, some of which has been contradicted by past writings while others is surely a matter of taste for any campaign. If I swear by my ancestors not to harm a particular person but being duplicitous, I do so in the knowledge that my ancestors want that person dead, have I broken faith with my ancestors if I kill that person? 49 minutes ago, ChalkLine said: I think restricting oaths to a rune spell is doing the game a disservice The question wasn't all oaths but perilous oaths (ie oaths that have a magical effect if you break them). I would appreciate it if you distinguished between the two consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, metcalph said: May be because we're not talking about werguild but ransom. Since you are persist with unsupported assertions and inability to stay on topic (cults, wereguild), I don't see any value in debating matters further with you. That's very helpful, thanks. No second ransom for you, then, and you used this one up. Vasana has left her ransom deposit with Harmast's cult, which makes a lot of sense since ransoming captives of war is a time honored function of the Issaries cult, and one reason they will receive some form of free passage even from Wolf Pirates and the like. In the end, it is her employer who bails her out. In the case of a less well connected Orlanthi, the clan chief or perhaps the tribal king, otherwise a superior in the temple will be named as an influential go-to to redeem the ransom offer. IOUs aka favors are a big part of Orlanthi transactions. Edited May 6, 2019 by Joerg vocabulary slump 1 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 8 hours ago, metcalph said: I didn't know Cults were credit lending institutions. They are in my games, especially for Rune Masters. The cult will pay for things that the Rune Master needs, so binding the Rune Master deeper into the cult. 1 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Joerg said: Vasana has left her ransom deposit with Harmast's cult, which makes a lot of sense since ransoming captives of war is a time honored function of the Issaries cult, and one reason they will receive some form of free passage even from Wolf Pirates and the like. In the end, it is her employer who bails her out. We always left at least two ransoms, in case we had to use one of them up. Our cults normally stumped up for a ransom as well, as they knew that we were good for it. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, soltakss said: We always left at least two ransoms, in case we had to use one of them up. Our cults normally stumped up for a ransom as well, as they knew that we were good for it. Isn't that the same as having one, bigger ransom but retaining the option of saying "Don't kill me, my ransom is 500L" when in fact you have 1000L available, but are pretty confident that the captor will settle for 500? If they scoff, you can then say "My cult/chief might stretch to a little more, maybe 600 or 700". Of course the latter option is available even if you do only have 500L ransom, but reckon you can make up the difference somehow by pulling in some favours. Maybe if you have a high Truth rune or a geas to never lie, that might not be an option. If so, keep your ransom low but have other options lined up ready. Like, as you say, a second ransom. Edited May 6, 2019 by PhilHibbs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 15 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said: Isn't that the same as having one, bigger ransom Yes, but we had guidelines for ransoms, so a Rune Lord fetches a certain amount, Rune Priest a bit more, High Priest a bit more and so on. I can't remember the values now, but we had 10,000L lined up as a ransom, just in case. Soltak Stormspear's was more, as I was filthy rich and had given a lot to the cults. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilHibbs Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 1 hour ago, soltakss said: Yes, but we had guidelines for ransoms, so a Rune Lord fetches a certain amount, Rune Priest a bit more, High Priest a bit more and so on. I can't remember the values now, but we had 10,000L lined up as a ransom, just in case. Soltak Stormspear's was more, as I was filthy rich and had given a lot to the cults. I think that works well with neighbours who are raiding and capturing regularly, a "cultural norm" will come about. The further you stray from that cozy relationship, the more I guess it becomes negotiable and unpredictable how much they will demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 to those involved in the conversation regarding cults as credit lending institutions. Seems that if cults are not lending institutes some temples are very much banks in very many ways. Note the following rules from the Equipment and Wealth chapter of RQ RiG page 406: Storing Treasure Temples serve as storage centers for grain, livestock, precious metals, and other valuables. Most cults do not charge their initiates (or those of associated gods) to store goods within the temple; lay members typically pay 5% of the value of the goods. Important temples serve as local centers of economic activity. Some temples make loans, charging an annual interest of 3D6+6%. Failure to repay a loan often results in a visit from the cult’s Spirit of Retribution or worse. Most temples do not recognize deposits made with other temples, even of the same cult. A deposit made to the major temple of Ernalda in Clearwine cannot be redeemed at the great temple of Ernalda in Nochet. A notable exception is the Issaries cult. Deposits made at an Issaries temple are recorded with a sealed letter of credit that can be redeemed at another Issaries temple, thereby facilitating long-distance trade. My emphasis for ease of finding passage in the above... 1 Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hteph Posted May 8, 2019 Share Posted May 8, 2019 I encountered exactly this problem when I was sketching out a Borderlands campaign, I had some moments depend heavily on certain slaves and needed to think about how the slavery thing actually worked (as I just knew my players would speculate and I wanted to be able to produce some kind of story about it). in the end I went for making up a minor god/subcult of slave holding (or fudging an existing minor one) which provided a sort of Slave Bracelet. Morocants was the main worshipers inPrax, but also Lunars had a version. Basically it consecrated the wearer (a tiny bit) making DI inpossible for sub Runelevels and limited divination for them, as well as the limiting the use of MP (IIRC it worked with using the bearers own MP for Disruptions spells when MPs was spent. So with some pain you could dosome magic, but as no MPs was recovered naturally while the braclets where in place and you fastly deplete the pool while being zapped ... an escape apptemts was not trivial. There was much more fiddly/padding stuff but this is the basic version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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