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PhilHibbs

Warning: Egregious munchkinnery!

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Just for the craic, anyone got any hot munchkin tips? Here's mine!

When creating your character, if you can arrange your Humakti's stats so that your sword skill comes to exactly 100% at the end, but with all three of STR, DEX, and POW (Manipulation stats, omitting INT) right at the level where they one point below giving an increased category modifier (12 or 16), then take three gifts of +1 to a raisable characteristic at the start of play, and get sword skill at 115%! For bonus points, do this with INT as well for 120 but that's 3 more geases for a total of 6...

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1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Just for the craic, anyone got any hot munchkin tips? Here's mine!

When creating your character, if you can arrange your Humakti's stats so that your sword skill comes to exactly 100% at the end, but with all three of STR, DEX, and POW (Manipulation stats, omitting INT) right at the level where they one point below giving an increased category modifier (12 or 16), then take three gifts of +1 to a raisable characteristic at the start of play, and get sword skill at 115%! For bonus points, do this with INT as well for 120 but that's 3 more geases for a total of 6...

Nice one.

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1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Just for the craic, anyone got any hot munchkin tips? Here's mine!

When creating your character, if you can arrange your Humakti's stats so that your sword skill comes to exactly 100% at the end, but with all three of STR, DEX, and POW (Manipulation stats, omitting INT) right at the level where they one point below giving an increased category modifier (12 or 16), then take three gifts of +1 to a raisable characteristic at the start of play, and get sword skill at 115%! For bonus points, do this with INT as well for 120 but that's 3 more geases for a total of 6...

Well, you couldn't include INT as INitiates can only take 3 Gifts, but otherwise, pretty munchkin!

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2 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

Well, you couldn't include INT as INitiates can only take 3 Gifts, but otherwise, pretty munchkin!

Ah, damn, and re-reading that section it's clear that you take gifts upon initiation, and thereafter no more until you make Rune Lord. Oh well! I do seem to remember something about being able to take further gifts, I think it might have been as reward for service.

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6 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Ah, damn, and re-reading that section it's clear that you take gifts upon initiation, and thereafter no more until you make Rune Lord. Oh well! I do seem to remember something about being able to take further gifts, I think it might have been as reward for service.

Alternatively you start your character as a Laymember...though then you lose out on the 3 free POW worth of RP.

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The best trick for munchkinning is be an Eurmal worshipper, take the glutton subcult and get as many runepoints as possible. Devour is a distressingly accurate instant kill if you can invest enough points to beat the SIZ of a human. You get one shot but the look on your gm's face is priceless.

I'm still not sure what the best way to build optimised characters is. Obviously you can create a super-effective killer with the death cults and a warrior class and then racing for Rune Priest/Lord, but I think going for breadth is the way to go in the long term, especially with cultural weapon skills and how you'll probably focus. Going Entertainer isn't compromising much physical power compared to the combat classes, for instance (although take the shield spell)

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Don't forget the simplest of all (presented in the pregens, Sorala has 20 INT): Using the runes to go above the starting limit.

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This will vary from table to table, GM to GM, Glorantha to Glorantha, but it seems to me there's a cozy space for powerful, unorthodox blends of cult and profession leading to adventurers with some crazy abilities. For example, a Tarshite Philosopher of the Seven Mothers, or a Sartarite Assistant Shaman who's an Initiate of Orlanth. Any time you can get access to more than one magical "tradition" feels to me like opening the door to munchkinnery.

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Also now that I'm ruminating on it I don't think there are any rules saying that a Philosopher or Lhankor Mhy Initiate's elective percentage points can't go to learning new Sorcery spells... Which could add a ton of extra spells for a new adventurer. Especially because some (like Magic Point Enchantment) aren't important to have at a high percentage because you'd probably be using ritual practices, etc. to get percentage up anyway since you don't cast those mid-adventure.

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If you just happen to roll 18 on the 2D6+6 (or, use Point Buy and just take it) for INT, then grab the Sky/Fire Rune for +2, and then a Yelmalian  (or Humakt - though the rune is more appropriate to Yelmalio) Gift of +1 Int (and 3 Geases)... to get to INT 21 at Char creation. So many skills have INT as a Primary (using old terminology), so that'd add +15% to a whole slew of skills - especially Manipulation for weapons.

 

RAW - Enhance INT is super-munchkin, as each successive casting would over-ride the previous if it's stronger... which it will be by having a few more points of Free INT available. Rules specifically state INT can go over species Max. 11 Intensity would give +4 INT,  10 Duration is 2 days (to get MPs back). Of course, you'd need to get your hands on a spirit or crystal, and you'd run out of MP sources quickly...

(Combine the above 2 for serious nastiness, as each INT increase also affects most other skills. At the very least, should be able to increase by 10%)

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1 hour ago, Crel said:

Also now that I'm ruminating on it I don't think there are any rules saying that a Philosopher or Lhankor Mhy Initiate's elective percentage points can't go to learning new Sorcery spells... Which could add a ton of extra spells for a new adventurer. Especially because some (like Magic Point Enchantment) aren't important to have at a high percentage because you'd probably be using ritual practices, etc. to get percentage up anyway since you don't cast those mid-adventure.

According to rules p79, the elective percentages have to be put to skills.

For the  like of '(Sorcery spell) +20%' (p70 for the philosopher), I understand it that it should be added to a spell the character already has, but you are right, nothing forbids to put it to a new spell. This would not be tons, because this is only 3 bonuses, but it could be used for 3 new spells.

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47 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

If you just happen to roll 18 on the 2D6+6 (or, use Point Buy and just take it) for INT, then grab the Sky/Fire Rune for +2, and then a Yelmalian  (or Humakt - though the rune is more appropriate to Yelmalio) Gift of +1 Int (and 3 Geases)... to get to INT 21 at Char creation. So many skills have INT as a Primary (using old terminology), so that'd add +15% to a whole slew of skills - especially Manipulation for weapons.

 

RAW - Enhance INT is super-munchkin, as each successive casting would over-ride the previous if it's stronger... which it will be by having a few more points of Free INT available. Rules specifically state INT can go over species Max. 11 Intensity would give +4 INT,  10 Duration is 2 days (to get MPs back). Of course, you'd need to get your hands on a spirit or crystal, and you'd run out of MP sources quickly...

(Combine the above 2 for serious nastiness, as each INT increase also affects most other skills. At the very least, should be able to increase by 10%)

Right, but Humakt and Yelmalio are not on the known list of cults that allow sorcery. Jeff answered that Eurmal, Lhankor Mhy, Issaries, Chalana Arroy and many others are possible, but that we need to wait for the new GoG to obtain the full list. Of course, we know that the invisible God and the Seven Mothers are in the list, but for the others, we have to speculate. My personal guess is that Humakt may allow in Oktorion and perhaps in the Aeolian church of Heortland, but not Yelmalio.

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3 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Right, but Humakt and Yelmalio are not on the known list of cults that allow sorcery. Jeff answered that Eurmal, Lhankor Mhy, Issaries, Chalana Arroy and many others are possible, but that we need to wait for the new GoG to obtain the full list. Of course, we know that the invisible God and the Seven Mothers are in the list, but for the others, we have to speculate. My personal guess is that Humakt may allow in Oktorion and perhaps in the Aeolian church of Heortland, but not Yelmalio.

True - but it wouldn't stop a Lhankor Mhy companion from casting it on you :D

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3 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

True - but it wouldn't stop a Lhankor Mhy companion from casting it on you :D

Wow, this is true munchkinery. I haven't thought about it. 1 point for you.

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10 minutes ago, Kloster said:

According to rules p79, the elective percentages have to be put to skills.

For the  like of '(Sorcery spell) +20%' (p70 for the philosopher), I understand it that it should be added to a spell the character already has, but you are right, nothing forbids to put it to a new spell. This would not be tons, because this is only 3 bonuses, but it could be used for 3 new spells.

I've read the Philosopher occupation as starting with one Rune, one Technique, and three spells, one at 20% and two at 10% based on those +% mods noted in the occupation description. I see Sorcery spells as basically being skills. (Though I guess the spells could start at their base, and then you have those choices to add to any of your known spells from occupation + cult. Base% = 1D6+Mag Mod p.390) My rationale for those personal skill bonuses is that they can go to any skill, and sorcery spells are skills, soooo...

Hey, it's a munchkin thread after all, right? :D So hypothetically with this "interpretation" (exploit?) you could get up to nine bonus spells! If you wanna play a bookworm who's never left the tower anytime ever...

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Can you imagine how annoying an ordinary party of adventurers would find hanging out with an int 21 pc? Delicious. I would make an incrediably low int Duck beserker to counter them. 

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So I don't know if this is an exploit or what, but according to p.58 of the Bestiary, Silver Dwarf adventurers get the skill Craft (Magic Item)... Whatever that's supposed to do? Also broadly gets "sorcerous scrolls" which seems to be begging for munchkinnery. "Ooh, what do I have in my scrolls... how about Moonfire or Steal Breath?"

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3 minutes ago, Crel said:

So I don't know if this is an exploit or what, but according to p.58 of the Bestiary, Silver Dwarf adventurers get the skill Craft (Magic Item)... Whatever that's supposed to do? Also broadly gets "sorcerous scrolls" which seems to be begging for munchkinnery. "Ooh, what do I have in my scrolls... how about Moonfire or Steal Breath?"

IMO

For the magic item, think of a Manhattan Project for the Mostali - like a Storm Energy Dampener or a Moonrock creator.  They know how to build that item but its going to take time (decades perhaps centuries) and resources.  They could extrapolate from their skill the art of building lesser items but its something they will have to work through in the lab.

As for sorcerous scrolls, these would be design documentation on the Runes.  They could use it to master new runes and techniques but they really use it as a resource for looking up the answers to complcated magical questions (what is the air speed of a disrupt spell? etc.)

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18 minutes ago, Crel said:

I've read the Philosopher occupation as starting with one Rune, one Technique, and three spells, one at 20% and two at 10% based on those +% mods noted in the occupation description. I see Sorcery spells as basically being skills. (Though I guess the spells could start at their base, and then you have those choices to add to any of your known spells from occupation + cult. Base% = 1D6+Mag Mod p.390) My rationale for those personal skill bonuses is that they can go to any skill, and sorcery spells are skills, soooo...

Hey, it's a munchkin thread after all, right? :D So hypothetically with this "interpretation" (exploit?) you could get up to nine bonus spells! If you wanna play a bookworm who's never left the tower anytime ever...

If there was an occupation of Apprentice Wizard/Sorcerer, I'd presume they would count as skills as per normal. So, it wouldn't seem logical to deny them to the philosopher just because of a title.

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34 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

Can you imagine how annoying an ordinary party of adventurers would find hanging out with an int 21 pc? Delicious. I would make an incrediably low int Duck beserker to counter them. 

But - it makes shrugging off the Befuddle hilarious to watch :D (Befuddle, walk up to character and slap them in the face.... see the mental machinations of "now, did they do that because they hate me? Or because they needed to pretend that they hate me? Or because they do actually hate me, but are pretending to like me but also need to pretend that they hate me....")

Edited by Shiningbrow
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14 minutes ago, metcalph said:

IMO

For the magic item, think of a Manhattan Project for the Mostali - like a Storm Energy Dampener or a Moonrock creator.  They know how to build that item but its going to take time (decades perhaps centuries) and resources.  They could extrapolate from their skill the art of building lesser items but its something they will have to work through in the lab.

As for sorcerous scrolls, these would be design documentation on the Runes.  They could use it to master new runes and techniques but they really use it as a resource for looking up the answers to complcated magical questions (what is the air speed of a disrupt spell? etc.)

I'm more curious TBH on what those lesser items would be--the kind of thing that could show up during an adventure, rather than the climax of a campaign. I like your interpretation of the sorcerous scrolls. It feels right on that boundary between science and Monty Python or Discworld where I feel so much of Glorantha exists.

Hrm. I might put up a thread later aggregating the skills mentioned in passing in the Bestiary for discussion. Bet there's a lot to unpack there.

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10 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

If there was an occupation of Apprentice Wizard/Sorcerer, I'd presume they would count as skills as per normal. So, it wouldn't seem logical to deny them to the philosopher just because of a title.

It was in RQIII's previous experience (but you had then no free to allocate points), but with RQG, it seems to me a no (but as I like munchkinism AND like to play sorcerors, if my GM allows, I could give a try).

 

8 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

But - it makes shrugging of the Befuddle hilarious to watch :D (Befuddle, walk up to character and slap them in the face.... see the mental machinations of "now, did they do that because they hate me? Or because they needed to pretend that they hate me? Or because they do actually hate me, but are pretending to like me but also need to pretend that they hate me....")

Yes, true, fun (and efficient).

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2 hours ago, Crel said:

This will vary from table to table, GM to GM, Glorantha to Glorantha, but it seems to me there's a cozy space for powerful, unorthodox blends of cult and profession leading to adventurers with some crazy abilities. For example, a Tarshite Philosopher of the Seven Mothers, or a Sartarite Assistant Shaman who's an Initiate of Orlanth. Any time you can get access to more than one magical "tradition" feels to me like opening the door to munchkinnery.

If you want to go that way, create a Tarshite Seven Mothers initiate Assistant Shaman. That way, he could also learn sorcery, in addition to the rune spells, the spirit magic and the (later) shaman powers.

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2 hours ago, Crel said:

 or a Sartarite Assistant Shaman who's an Initiate of Orlanth.

You mean, a Kolati? Makes absolutely perfect sense to me!

Various deity cults have a pathway to shaman for their priests/esses. The problem seems to be getting the sorcery legitimately, along with the other two pathways of magic.

Edited by Shiningbrow

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