Egregious munchkinnery!

[Austin]

5 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My question is basically, does boosting non-attack spells, i.e. those that do not interact with Countermagic, increase the spell's resistance to dispelling? I am trying to figure out how to actually KEEP a truesword spell. My DM just throws Dismiss Magic and Dispel Magic around all the time and the Humakti shines a lot less. With truesword being a 1 point spell it only takes Dismiss 1 or Dispel 2, cheap and fast, which is immensely frustrating.

Page 248 has an example of boosting a spell with MPs, but as written strongly implies that this instance only applies to overcoming defensive spells. Although I seem to recall that a magician could spend MP boosting a temporal spell to make it more resistant to dispelling, I'm not finding that as I skim back over the text. To my knowledge, the MPs spent increasing the effect of a Rune spell don't count as MPs boosting the spell, for purposes of pushing past Countermagic; so the MP spent to increase your True Sword wouldn't make it more resistant to dispelling (likewise with RP spent on Extension, as noted by lordabdul. I haven't (yet) found specific text detailing this.

I also don't see anything immediately enlightening in the core rules Q&A on Well of Daliath (although it does confirm that Extension doesn't increase a spell's resistance to dispelling).

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

To cast Dismiss/Dispel Magic, one would need to specify a spell to dismiss/dispel... otherwise, you just aim at the target, and it will affect defensive spells first. Sure, True Sword will make the Humakti's weapon glow and drip blood or something (since Rune magic is always visible), but it might not be always obvious what spell exactly is making that.

FWIW I figure "I'm gonna throw my Dismiss Magic at whatever hijinx is going on with that weapon" is something I'd allow my players to do (even if they didn't know exactly what spell it was), I figure it's fair game for non-player characters to do as well. YG(ame)MV.

2 hours ago, lordabdul said:

5 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My idea is to use the 63 MP from storage and throw up a Truesword with Extension 5 for the year that should, in theory be immune to dispel magic? 

Wait, you have a 63 MP storage available for real?

One of the adventurers in my game has well over 100 MPs available. Can't recall the exact number.

He's started talking about getting the Issaries to help spell trade him a Sword Trance from the Humakti, to buzzsaw opponents with over 1000% Broadsword (he has no actual skill in it base). I've warned him that if he does, I'll probably insist that his character seek out initiation with Humakti immediately after—he's tasted the rawest, most pure glory of the Sword God and has a deep need to reach that oneness with "swordness" again.

[PhilHibbs]

2 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Eh, either way.  We all have fun. 

It's not about fun, it's about winning!

Quote

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

Serious hat on, we never allowed that in the groups I played in.

Edited December 14, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Zit]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Serious hat on, we never allowed that in the groups I played in.

I agree.

You still can cast defensive spells on your sword.

[Joerg]

4 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Eh, either way.  We all have fun. 

 

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

I don't think so. Boosting MPs dissipate once they have overcome whatever countermagic effect there may have been.

But why limit your blade to just Truesword? Add a few points of Shield with the same amount of Extension, and any dispel needs to overcome that Countermagic effect. As soon as you recognize the opposition starting their dispels, have one of your spirits add a Countermagic to those points of Shield.

The increased MP for the weapon make parrying with it a much smoother experience.

Also - if you (plan to) have such a weapon, why didn't you bind a spirit into it? That spirit will resist enemy magic with its own POW as a second layer of protection in case the first layer (the Countermagic) has been overcome, as the sword is its body.

[HreshtIronBorne]

40 minutes ago, Joerg said:

5 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Eh, either way.  We all have fun. 

 

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

I don't think so. Boosting MPs dissipate once they have overcome whatever countermagic effect there may have been.

But why limit your blade to just Truesword? Add a few points of Shield with the same amount of Extension, and any dispel needs to overcome that Countermagic effect. As soon as you recognize the opposition starting their dispels, have one of your spirits add a Countermagic to those points of Shield.

The increased MP for the weapon make parrying with it a much smoother experience.

Also - if you (plan to) have such a weapon, why didn't you bind a spirit into it? That spirit will resist enemy magic with its own POW as a second layer of protection in case the first layer (the Countermagic) has been overcome, as the sword is its body.

Throwing up a couple points of Shield on the weapon itself is actually the method I used in Play to protect my spells from being messed with too bad. It quickly becomes incredibly expensive in RP to put several spells up on just the Sword. 

 

And the sword would have a spirit in it but, ai am not a Rune-Lord yet. Without a grib of POW to throw down on getting the blade enchanted gotta wait tol I can do it myself or be gifted the Allied Spirit. 

[Lordabdul]

5 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Throwing up a couple points of Shield on the weapon itself is actually the method I used in Play to protect my spells from being messed with too bad.

I don't think you can cast Shield to protect the weapon from having its True Sword dispelled, can you? Those would be 2 separate spells -- if someone can spot what spells are running, they could choose to dispel the True Sword directly at the normal cost, no?

[Joerg]

31 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I don't think you can cast Shield to protect the weapon from having its True Sword dispelled, can you? Those would be 2 separate spells -- if someone can spot what spells are running, they could choose to dispel the True Sword directly at the normal cost, no?

No - Shield has a Countermagic 2 effect, blocking a Dispel 2 or Dismiss 1 per point. While you can Dispel the Truesword with a Dispel 2, you need to boost that spell with magic points to bypass the Countermagic effect, leaving the Shield in place. And once you notice that the opposition uses Dispel or Dismiss, you can cast Countermagic on top of that shield (ideally for as many points as you need to overcome that Countermagic effect, which works against the casting of Countermagic or Repair, too).

I am not entirely certain whether you need to overcome an opponent's POW in a POW vs POW contest to dispel a Fanaticism - the target of the Dispel is inside the wearer's aura, after all. By the same logic, a sword with a bound spirit that has POW will have such an aura, too, and that may have to be overcome as well.

[Lordabdul]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

No - Shield has a Countermagic 2 effect,

Oh right I forgot about that -- still not quite able to grasp all the basics about Rune and Spirit magic.

[Akhôrahil]

13 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

You need to know a spell is there in order to target it specifically for dispelling. This usually means Second Sight/Soul Sight. It's not a huge limitation, but it's there.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Wait, you have a 63 MP storage available for real?

In our RQ2 Campaign, Soltak Stormspear bought a magical item from a fellow PC for 200 points-worth of POW Storage Crystals. In the same Campaign, Derak the Dark Troll had a leather jacket with "Derak" written in POW Storage Crystals.

It really depends on the type of campaign you have.

[soltakss]

13 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

I think that the boost allows it to punch through Countermagic and the like, but doesn't increase the strength of the spell. So, a Truesword backed with 20 MPs still only needs Dispel Magic 2 to remove.

[Akhôrahil]

13 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

The Extension thing is pure cheese and Extension is broken in so many ways it's not even funny, but to me, it seems completely reasonable to drop some MPs into Boost for Truesword. It probably makes even more sense to use it on Sword Trance, as you already dump a bunch of MPs (that don't count for dispelling purposes!) into the Sword Trance for its effect, making it far more expensive to recast (Truesword you can just cast again if dispelled).

[Bill the barbarian]

13 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

 

My question still stands though.  Is there a point to boosting a spell like Truesword to keep it from being dispelled? 

Sorry for missing this...

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Serious hat on, we never allowed that in the groups I played in.

5 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I think that the boost allows it to punch through Countermagic and the like, but doesn't increase the strength of the spell. So, a Truesword backed with 20 MPs still only needs Dispel Magic 2 to remove.

Agree with the above...

[Akhôrahil]

8 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I think that the boost allows it to punch through Countermagic and the like, but doesn't increase the strength of the spell. So, a Truesword backed with 20 MPs still only needs Dispel Magic 2 to remove.

I wish it worked like this, and the rules are really poorly written, but to me it seems as though it affects the "size" of a spell both offensively and defensively.

I believe the game would benefit from having a limit (likely dynamic with the stats) of how many MPs can be spent for a spell or in a turn. Sorcery has this (intensity up to Int only), but not the rest.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

I wish it worked like this, and the rules are really poorly written, but to me it seems as though it affects the "size" of a spell both offensively and defensively.

I believe the game would benefit from having a limit (likely dynamic with the stats) of how many MPs can be spent for a spell or in a turn. Sorcery has this (intensity up to Int only), but not the rest.

See my latest “RuneQuest Core Rules Questions "

[g33k]

14 hours ago, lordabdul said:

... I'm not sure your GM is playing very fair (and yes I know this is the egregious munchkinery thread, but it's about the players not playing fair! not the GM!) ...

<from somewhere nearby, you hear a quiet, evil chuckle...>

 

</GM>

[Bill the barbarian]

IT IS GETTING AWFULY SERIOUS AROUND HERE, AND I FOR ONE, WILL NOT STAND FOR IT!

<takes a seat>

[Joerg]

14 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

IT IS GETTING AWFULY SERIOUS AROUND HERE, AND I FOR ONE, WILL NOT STAND FOR IT!

<takes a seat>

And that's the story of "Sit here"...

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

And that's the story of "Sit here"...

Wrong forum that belongs in Glorantha!

[Austin]

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I believe the game would benefit from having a limit (likely dynamic with the stats) of how many MPs can be spent for a spell or in a turn. Sorcery has this (intensity up to Int only), but not the rest.

Well while there's no total MP cap, you still can't spend more than 1 MP/SR on a spell. So casting a gigantic Sword Trance is gonna take a couple rounds to a couple minutes. Doesn't change much in case of ambushes/prep, but makes the strat not viable when you're the one getting ganked.

[Lordabdul]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

I think that the boost allows it to punch through Countermagic and the like, but doesn't increase the strength of the spell. So, a Truesword backed with 20 MPs still only needs Dispel Magic 2 to remove.

That actually makes sense to me, thanks. So to protect True Sword from being dismissed/dispelled, you cast a Shield on top of it like mentioned previously?

[gochie]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:46 AM, lordabdul said:

Like I said, I would personally allow it, but I'm not 100% sure I'm interpreting the rules right. One thing that's clear (as per the RQG G&A) is that the Rune points that you spend on Extension would not count in the "strength" of the spell.

This is true. Extension doesn't count as defending the parallel spell from being dispelled.

As a side-note, I don't think I'll apply the magic-points boosting mechanism at my table at all.

[g33k]

11 minutes ago, gochie said:

As a side-note, I don't think I'll apply the magic-points boosting mechanism at my table at all.

So is there ANY way to get through a honkin' big Shield and/or Countermagic?

Be careful of turning defensive magic supreme.  Everyone will turtle-up behind their impenetrable defenses, and let the fights become "tink, tink, tink..."

Edited December 16, 2019 by g33k

[gochie]

Just now, g33k said:

So is there ANY way to get through a honkin' big Shield and/or Countermagic?

 

Nope. You wait it out if you must.

On the flip-side, is there  any way to get through a 63 MP-boosted Shield/countermagic, as above?

[g33k]

2 minutes ago, gochie said:

... On the flip-side, is there  any way to get through a 63 MP-boosted Shield/countermagic, as above?

Boost with 64 MP's?