Egregious munchkinnery!

[Akhôrahil]

Just now, PhilHibbs said:

If it's all you have...

This is RQ. You will have one POW vs. POW spell., or you're doing it wrong. 🙂

[PhilHibbs]

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This is RQ. You will have one POW vs. POW spell., or you're doing it wrong. 🙂

We faced this very problem with pregen Harmast in my game. He doesn't have anything, so they conveniently found a Demoralize matrix in their first loot haul.

Edited March 2, 2020 by PhilHibbs

[Ian Absentia]

12 hours ago, Thaz said:

Of course once the archer runs out of hostile targets ...... 

Or arrows...

!i!

[Bill the barbarian]

On 3/2/2020 at 4:08 PM, Akhôrahil said:

They get POW vs, POW, so it’s questionable whether this is better than an actual debuff spell.

Ah but for sheer conic effect (which has to count for something) I like the former.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Shiningbrow]

5 hours ago, g33k said:

I'd have to rule in favor of "the spirit of the spells" here, and Nope this one.

YGMV.

Mine would vary.

Any dedicated and passionate archer is going to prefer using their bow.

If they run out of arrows, it's questionable if they'd use it in melee (although, I'd say it counts as having a high loyalty rating... And Fanaticism doesn't make you an idiot... Berserk might)

[Austin]

11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh, and cast Fanaticism on the horse instead if they look like they are going to be fleeing on horseback soon. Berserk horses are hilarious as well, especially if they are behind the front lines.

Beautiful.

[Joerg]

If the tranced archer (who acted like Paris in the raid on the Greek camp, or like Legolas against the Mumakil) runs out of arrows, I would have her dodge towards the closest source of arrows, pulling them out of the ground or out of victims (with no thoughts spared on gentleness) and keep releasing them.

Arrow retrieval skill rises with archery experience. While you may miss less, you'll get more of an eye where that miss went. And unless you fire your arrows on highly ballistic curves, they will disappear into less hard ground or below the weed layer very easily.

I'd allow casting "Detect Bronze" or "Detect Flint" to find arrows while under Arrow Trance.

[Shiningbrow]

I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread (at least a search didn't find it, and I'm not going through 30 pages to check!!!)

Rune Masters, e.g. God Talkers, get a POW gain roll for every Holy Day service they help with.

Issaries (and Ernalda, and soon to be corrected, Orlanth) have a Holy Day every week... 

So, easy POW gain roll every week, at +20%.

For extra munchkinnery, you can be a God Talker (or higher) of multiple cults (such as all 3 mentioned above), so theoretically multiple weekly POW gain rolls! 

[Akhôrahil]

8 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I don't think this has been mentioned in this thread (at least a search didn't find it, and I'm not going through 30 pages to check!!!)

Rune Masters, e.g. God Talkers, get a POW gain roll for every Holy Day service they help with.

Issaries (and Ernalda, and soon to be corrected, Orlanth) have a Holy Day every week... 

So, easy POW gain roll every week, at +20%.

For extra munchkinnery, you can be a God Talker (or higher) of multiple cults (such as all 3 mentioned above), so theoretically multiple weekly POW gain rolls! 

This doesn't work.

"Making a POW Gain Roll
POW gain rolls are made at the end of a season"

So you earn a POW gain roll, which you then perform at end of season. You can also only get one, so it doesn't do anything for you if you get a POW gain roll in another way anyway. Think of it as an experience check for your POW.

It's still very useful to get to do it seasonally if you're not adventuring.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Thaz]

6 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, easy POW gain roll every week, at +20%.

You only get a Max of one POW gain roll per season. You collect up all your ticks and then sort out advancement once a season. So a RuneMaster gets _many_ opportunities to get pow gain 'ticks' but 'only'  5 + Sacred Time = 6 rolls per year

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, Thaz said:

You only get a Max of one POW gain roll per season. You collect up all your ticks and then sort out advancement once a season. So a RuneMaster gets _many_ opportunities to get pow gain 'ticks' but 'only'  5 + Sacred Time = 6 rolls per year

I personally don't count Sacred Time as a separate season either, but I feel a bit unsure here. It actually matters a lot if you get experience rolls after Sacred Time as well as after seasons. This being Sacred Time, I could easily see it including a "free" POW gain roll resolved immediately, but I really don't like the idea of counting it as a season for experience gain.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Shiningbrow]

8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This doesn't work.

"Making a POW Gain Roll
POW gain rolls are made at the end of a season"

So you earn a POW gain roll, which you then perform at end of season. You can also only get one, so it doesn't do anything for you if you get a POW gain roll in another way anyway. Think of it as an experience check for your POW.

It's still very useful to get to do it seasonally if you're not adventuring.

Possibly. Depends on how you read those paragraphs... And the GM. It's not clear that you can't earn more than one! (We are being egregious, remember!)

[Thaz]

13 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I personally don't count Sacred Time as a separate season either, but I feel a bit unsure here. It actually matters a lot if you get experience rolls after Sacred Time as well as after seasons. This being Sacred Time, I could easily see it including a "free" POW gain roll resolved immediately, but I really don't like the idea of counting it as a season for experience gain.

RQG p420 Sacred time "1.Worship  ...all initiates and higher level members of a cult get a POW gain Roll ."

That is separate to the seasonal rolls for leading worship or as a result of typical munchkin pow vs pow rolls you may have engineered yourself. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Thaz
Clarity and ""

[Akhôrahil]

9 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Possibly. Depends on how you read those paragraphs... And the GM. It's not clear that you can't earn more than one! (We are being egregious, remember!)

This is really clear - it's treated like an experience check, it has one (and only one) checkbox next to POW on the character sheet, and so on. "It doesn't say I can't" is not true munchkinnery.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[Akhôrahil]

2 minutes ago, Thaz said:

RQG p420 1.Worship  ...all initiates and higher level members of a cult get a POW gain Roll .

Still unclear. It says you get a POW gain roll, true, but that usually just means "mark the checkbox, roll at next end of season".

Now, there wouldn't be anything weird about Sacred Time containing its own POW gain attempt - the opposite in fact, it makes every kind of sense - but it's not actually in the rules.

[Thaz]

9 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Still unclear. It says you get a POW gain roll, true, but that usually just means "mark the checkbox, roll at next end of season".

Now, there wouldn't be anything weird about Sacred Time containing its own POW gain attempt - the opposite in fact, it makes every kind of sense - but it's not actually in the rules.

Hmmm Not how I'd read it.

"Sacred Time is formalised into these steps, which should be handled in the order listed 

1. worship

2 Perform Hero quests (if applicable)

3.. <snip> 

7 Read the Omens.

1. Worship

All Rune Points are replenished with a successful worship roll during sacred time. Even on on a failure 2d6 rune points are replenished up to an adventurer's total rune points. Additionally,  all initiates and higher level members of a cult get a POW gain Roll . 

God Talkers, Rune Priests, and Rune Lords get 1 free point of cult spirit magic during sacred time."

Edited March 4, 2020 by Thaz
Spelling

[Akhôrahil]

My point is this: "get a POW gain roll" otherwise doesn't mean "roll it at once", and instead means "mark the checkbox, and roll for it and end of season, just like any other experience checks". So formally, the POW gain roll you get in Sacred Time would be resolved at the end of Sea Season.

Now, I do think you should just get the POW gain roll the way you say, because it's Sacred Time and all and it doesn't belong to a season anyway, but that's not really supported in the rules text.

[Thaz]

8 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

My point is this: "get a POW gain roll" otherwise doesn't mean "roll it at once",

I think the repeated use of "during" indicates it means exactly that and the POW Gain roll is then and there and in particular before the rest of Sacred Time activities. Besides which it makes thematic sense. 

In any case 5 or 6 pow gain rolls a year for a Rune Master. 

[Lordabdul]

35 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

because it's Sacred Time and all and it doesn't belong to a season anyway

Do you consider Sacred Time not a season because it's listed separately on p140? Even though it says there are five seasons in Seasonal Time, Sacred Time is still described as a season in the first paragraph of p141. I assume that this confusing choice of words is meant to say that "normal time" has five seasons (because Sacred Time is kind of outside of time), and not that a Gloranthan year has five seasons -- it has six.  All other evidence points to this, as Sacred Time is otherwise used as a season for dating Vasana's Saga on p19, for Clearwine/Nochet/etc. seasonal temperatures and precipitation on p104/110/etc., and so on.

[Akhôrahil]

7 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

Do you consider Sacred Time not a season because it's listed separately on p140? Even though it says there are five seasons in Seasonal Time, Sacred Time is still described as a season in the first paragraph of p141

I personally think that this is less convincing than how explicit it is that "There are five seasons" and "A season is made up of eight weeks". It's also as part of this regular season header that we get experience check resolution and POW gain rolls mentioned.

If Sacred Time counted as an actual season, then you would earn experience gain during it as well.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Akhôrahil

[HreshtIronBorne]

We have been playing with Sacred Time as its own season, so that if we end up going on a heroquest and marking stuff then we get to go up by the end of Sacred Time rather than all the way at the end of sea season. 

[Akhôrahil]

9 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

We have been playing with Sacred Time as its own season, so that if we end up going on a heroquest and marking stuff then we get to go up by the end of Sacred Time rather than all the way at the end of sea season. 

I can see arguments both ways. You almost certainly shouldn't gain any Occupational Experience in mere two weeks, though.

[French Desperate WindChild]

I see sacred time like an "half" season from a mechanic perspective :

     roll experience check "in adventure" (including worship one time)

    do not roll eexperience check "between adventure"

I see sacred time not as a season from a glorantha life perspective

Sacred time is different : you are working to save the world, you are making extraordinary things (understand extraordinary as not your daily occupation) you are experiencing greater things, greater magic, etc so yes you can learn (experience) more, but no, you cannot improve your occupational skills because you are not working as usual

 

[Bill the barbarian]

20 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I can see arguments both ways. You almost certainly shouldn't gain any Occupational Experience in mere two weeks, though.

Well, sacred time is sacred time and if the occupation has any relevance to sacred time (hero quest-y) situations...munchkins being munchkins...

Edited March 5, 2020 by Bill the barbarian

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Well, sacred time is sacred time and if the occupation has any relevance to sacred time (hero quest-y) situations...munchkins being munchkins...

Even without munchkins. If the gods tells us it is sacred for them, why not believing them.