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Egregious munchkinnery!


PhilHibbs

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On 2/3/2021 at 7:37 AM, Akhôrahil said:

One less obvious benefit of Berserker is that you're all but immune to drowning. Drowning happens due to failed CON rolls (eventually a mere CON x1), and the berserker has a fixed 95% to succeed at any CON roll.

Oh please tell... I'm dying to see how you can turn that into some type of munchkinnery 😛

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On 2/1/2021 at 11:24 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Just realized (in the spirit of the thread, too!) that Berserker is a perfect (well, it has some practical downsides...) Chaos detector. It objectively triggers on Chaos, without any concerns about detection or anything like that. Attack someone, and see if you get your attack skilled increased by 50%, or doubled. If doubled, you know it's Chaos, no matter how hidden or in an Illuminant. Otherwise, not.

 

but then you have an issue :

as berserker, you cannot heal yourself,

as berserker fighting chaos, it is hard for other to heal you (counter magic 4)

so you need to have a powerful healer , and very dodge skilled (or a great passion), to avoid your own weapons

 

berserker = kind of suicide mission ?

 

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1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

as berserker, you cannot heal yourself,

That is what allied spirits are for.

1 minute ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

as berserker fighting chaos, it is hard for other to heal you (counter magic 4)

We always played that allied spirits etc operate under the Countermagic, so spells from your allied spirit are not blocked by Countermagic.

We also played that Zoran Zorani Berserker used Countermagic and Storm Bull Berserker gives Protection, because Minotaurs increase armour in Battle Rage.

 

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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11 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

as berserker fighting chaos, it is hard for other to heal you (counter magic 4)

As I read the spell, it is quite discriminating in its application of CM effect - only if the person who attempts to heal the berserk is chaotic it will be at 4, otherwise the healer will have to overcome a CM 2, which basically any necessary heal spell will provide.

 

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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1 hour ago, Joerg said:

As I read the spell, it is quite discriminating in its application of CM effect - only if the person who attempts to heal the berserk is chaotic it will be at 4, otherwise the healer will have to overcome a CM 2, which basically any necessary heal spell will provide.

 

I agree with this.

By the way, have you noticed that Woad has a unique, discriminating Countermagic effect that only stops the bad spells?

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10 hours ago, Joerg said:

As I read the spell, it is quite discriminating in its application of CM effect - only if the person who attempts to heal the berserk is chaotic it will be at 4, otherwise the healer will have to overcome a CM 2, which basically any necessary heal spell will provide.

that s clear now, you are in the darkside of the force

 

but you are right

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  • 6 months later...

RBoM Page 113:

Quote

Distraction
1 point
Ranged, Instant
... When cast on a corporeal enemy, the enemy ceases
attacking their current target and begins attacking the caster
as soon as possible by whatever means the target considers
most effective and expedient.

So you stand on the top of the city walls, and cast it on someone outside the locked gates. They now have to try to attack you to the exclusion of all other activity. There's no duration, so as long as you're inside and they're outside, that could be a long long time. Maybe you have to stay within 50m of them, though, or the effect might wear off. Also there's no Befuddle-like INT or meditate roll to throw it off.

Or, if you are on the other side and can see and target someone who has the ability to open the gates, cast it on them. They now have to open the gates and come attack you!

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22 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Or, if you are on the other side and can see and target someone who has the ability to open the gates, cast it on them. They now have to open the gates and come attack you!

This gives another way to use the mindlink with the flying allied spirit.

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38 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Or, if you are on the other side and can see and target someone who has the ability to open the gates, cast it on them. They now have to open the gates and come attack you!

Although... they have to be in combat in order to be targeted by this spell.

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12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Although... they have to be in combat in order to be targeted by this spell.

I'd take that as a "combat situation". So, the gate keeper is trying to actively defend the keep, by keeping the gate shut. Casting Distraction should probably get them to forego their duty to keep the gate locked, in order to attack you... I'd say it's not only the change in attack target, but also a change of priority and a disregarding of orders.

 

13 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

There's no duration,

Except it's a spirit magic spell, so should be a max of 2 mins. (yes, it says 'Instant", but...)

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On 8/11/2021 at 8:39 PM, Shiningbrow said:

I'd take that as a "combat situation". So, the gate keeper is trying to actively defend the keep, by keeping the gate shut. Casting Distraction should probably get them to forego their duty to keep the gate locked, in order to attack you... I'd say it's not only the change in attack target, but also a change of priority and a disregarding of orders.

 

Except it's a spirit magic spell, so should be a max of 2 mins. (yes, it says 'Instant", but...)

I am quoting you Shiningbrow because you bring up the "Instant" factor but I am replying generally on the topic.

Distraction is a fairly low powered spell with limited scope and applicability, as it should be for a 1 point spirit spell. The fact that it is Instant is the biggest give away. In a fight, after overcoming the target with a POW vs POW roll, you give them a quick nudge to attack you "by whatever means the target considers most effective and expedient". Now, because it is instant, if there is no effective and expedient way, the instant nudge won't be enough. The moment will have passed and the target will make their own decision. At best I would say the target loses 5 SR (or maybe skip a MR) while they are distracted and contemplate attacking the caster, realize they can't, and move on.

It is most effective against foes that can attack you and that do not have a strong preconceived objectives. Distraction will nudge them towards you and after the instant nudge is gone, they have no real incentive to change target.

Now this part "... it attacks the caster until the caster is unconscious or the spirit is defeated...", I would apply to spirit or mindless creatures not to beings capable of reasons.

Edited by DreadDomain
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On 8/12/2021 at 6:38 AM, DreadDomain said:

you give them a quick nudge to attack you "by whatever means the target considers most effective and expedient".

I wonder if that could mean something like throwing their melee weapon at you if they're on top of a wall while you're at the bottom...

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/13/2021 at 3:24 AM, Shiningbrow said:

I wonder if that could mean something like throwing their melee weapon at you if they're on top of a wall while you're at the bottom...

I doubt it, as the target gets to consider. I expect they would try to throw missile or thrown weapons at you. You are within 50 meters to cast it, so within most missile/thrown ranges. 

Besides, the "This spell pulls an opponent’s attention to the caster as a more opportune target for attack." in the description is important. So presumably, the guy with the gate key is already fighting someone, either on the wall or with missile weapons, for you to cast it.

A Chalana Arroy High Healer affected by the spell may view the caster as 'more opportune' to attack. That doesn't mean she will break cult vows to physically attack the caster.

But this thread being what it is, go for it! I remember reading something called a Lead Cross in Plunder back in the day. **no spoiler**. A PC on a similar but less severe path could frustrate High Healers simply by casting Distraction on them. 

An interesting question is whether Distraction would work to distract a guard not 'attacking their current target', but just on guard duty. For example, could you cast it on a guard to make him want to interrogate the caster while the caster's friend unlocks the gate and slips in. That would be pretty darn good for a 1 point Spirit spell.

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  • 10 months later...

Start off with maximum STR and SIZ for a duck. That's 13 and 8.

Take Air as top rune and Darkness as second. That's 15 and 9.

Still no damage modifier. 24 is the very top of the no modifier zone, so you need an extra +1 from somewhere.

Join Humakt: Gift +1 to a raiseable characteristic, so now you have a +1D4 modifier. With the Strength spirit spell, you get +1D6, but that's not really worth it for 2 MP to get an average of +1 damage.

Is that the best we can do? No of course it isn't!

Join Orlanth or Odayla instead. Learn Bear's Strength. That gives you +1D6 damage modifier.

Learn Strength spirit spell as well, stack that on top and you get +2D6 damage modifier!

Then all you need to do is increase your STR by 1 point through some means such as training, and then you have not only a +1D4 damage modifier normally, but with Bear's Strength you get +2D6, and with the Strength spirit spell on top of that you get +3D6 damage.

If that old spell Sea Strength (RuneQuest Vikings I think?) shows up again that triples your strength, then you're up another D6 on everything.

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3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Start off with maximum STR and SIZ for a duck. That's 13 and 8.

Take Air as top rune and Darkness as second. That's 15 and 9.

Still no damage modifier. 24 is the very top of the no modifier zone, so you need an extra +1 from somewhere.

Join Humakt: Gift +1 to a raiseable characteristic, so now you have a +1D4 modifier. With the Strength spirit spell, you get +1D6, but that's not really worth it for 2 MP to get an average of +1 damage.

Is that the best we can do? No of course it isn't!

Join Orlanth or Odayla instead. Learn Bear's Strength. That gives you +1D6 damage modifier.

Learn Strength spirit spell as well, stack that on top and you get +2D6 damage modifier!

Then all you need to do is increase your STR by 1 point through some means such as training, and then you have not only a +1D4 damage modifier normally, but with Bear's Strength you get +2D6, and with the Strength spirit spell on top of that you get +3D6 damage.

If that old spell Sea Strength (RuneQuest Vikings I think?) shows up again that triples your strength, then you're up another D6 on everything.

I have a smarter (?)

don’t play the only bird in glorantha unable … to sing nicely

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On 7/1/2022 at 9:22 PM, PhilHibbs said:

Start off with maximum STR and SIZ for a duck. That's 13 and 8.

 

On 7/2/2022 at 12:33 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

I have a smarter (?)

don’t play the only bird in glorantha unable … to sing nicely

Or... Start off with a Great Troll.... (or, if you're playing Orlanthi symathizers, Minotaur).

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  • 2 months later...

Recharging Truestone

Truestone is a bit broken at the moment. Any rune spell cast into it locks out that Rune Point until the spell is cast from the Truestone. So it's entirely pointless to put your own spells in for your own use, you might as well keep the RP available.

The only use for Truestone is to give spells to other people to have access to. So if I have a Truestone with a particular spell in it, I get someone else to cast the spell into it for me to use. Good luck finding people to do that for you regularly. If you're lucky, you have a piece that has spells that your friendly local priest has and they will do it for you whilst you go out doing dangerous things for the temple/clan/tribe.

The pro way to do it, though, is to use an Issaries trader. They cast Spell Trading, get the desired spell from a priest or lord (a restriction of the spell, the Issaries can only trade with a Rune master although they can initiate the trade regardless of rank), and they cast it into the Truestone.

Since Spell Trading allows the RP to be regained as normal without the spell having been cast, it can be cast into the Truestone without locking out someone's Rune Points.

It's a bit of a roundabout way of circumventing a weird new restriction on Truestone in the new rules. Personally in my game, I house-rule that it works like Spell Trading anyway and does not lock out the RP.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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11 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Truestone is a bit broken at the moment. Any rune spell cast into it locks out that Rune Point until the spell is cast from the Truestone. So it's entirely pointless to put your own spells in for your own use, you might as well keep the RP available.

There's a maximum number of RP a priest can have in their head (heart/soul/character sheet) though, right? Surplus can go into a handy Truestone.

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13 hours ago, MOB said:

There's a maximum number of RP a priest can have in their head (heart/soul/character sheet) though, right? Surplus can go into a handy Truestone.

How could you ever have a "surplus" point? Your pool is limited by your CHA, but if say your CHA is 18 and your RP pool is 18, and you put 1 point into a Truestone, then you are down to 17 and you can't get that one point back until the spell is cast from the Truestone. You can't ever have a surplus point taking you to 19 points and put one into the Truestone.

Spell Trading gets around this by breaking the link between the spell and the Rune Pool.

I suppose an evil GM could rule that since the RP pool is locked out by the Truestone, then the spell cast MUST come from someone's RP pool, and not from Spell Trading or a matrix.

10 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I thought that getting a friendly priest to put an unusual spell in for a special dangerous mission is exactly what Truestone is for.

Going undercover in the Lunar army camp?  Guided Teleport.  Fighting chaos?  Impede Chaos.  Etc...

Maybe, but if so then that is a new idea in the current edition of the game. It never used to be that way. The Truestone was locked in to the specific spells that were first cast into it when it was blank, and it could only ever hold those same spells. And anyone could refill them with their reusable divine magic if they had the right spells.

Personally I still run it that way in my game. Maybe that's dull, working exactly like a matrix, and the new way is cool and different.

Edited by PhilHibbs
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1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Maybe, but if so then that is a new idea in the current edition of the game. It never used to be that way.

I always have seen truestone as temple's treasure, used only to lend some great power to some champion for a mission and the mission only (once achieved the temple get back the stone), so I m exactly on @Rodney Dangerduck line .

And that way is, for me, what I understood when I read the sun dome temple description and the Belvani's crystal "agreement" (not a true stone but even lower than one)

ok sometimes a pc may gain one by some weird mean but a devoted pc would have to offer it to a temple.

the real difference* is the true stone abilities in the previous version, not its purpose

* in my play, of course

 

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

How could you ever have a "surplus" point? Your pool is limited by your CHA, but if say your CHA is 18 and your RP pool is 18, and you put 1 point into a Truestone, then you are down to 17 and you can't get that one point back until the spell is cast from the Truestone. You can't ever have a surplus point taking you to 19 points and put one into the Truestone.

I agree with you if there is no other option :

 

your RP is 18, you put 1 into a truestone, then you are down to 17

then you sacrifice one POW. your RP is now 18

the true stone spell is now cast... and nothing change for your RP (CHA limit)

aka the POW / Rune point "sent" into the true stone cannot be back, so is lost, for ever.

the truestone can be seen as a RP extension without CHA limit (with the limit what is over is one use)

 

I m just interpretating what MOB said, I did not have this idea before, does it mean than there are munchkins in chaosium ? oups !

 

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26 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I agree with you if there is no other option :

your RP is 18, you put 1 into a truestone, then you are down to 17

Your Rune Pool is still 18, but your current Rune Points are 17.

26 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

then you sacrifice one POW. your RP is now 18

No, your Rune Pool would go to 19 which it can't.

The wording of the rules may be ambiguous and allow that interpretation, but I wouldn't use that interpretation if it were.

In any case, it's a daft way to use your POW. You are effectively spending 1 permanent POW to recharge a Truestone for a single use. There are better uses for that point of POW.

26 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

I m just interpretating what MOB said, I did not have this idea before, does it mean than there are munchkins in chaosium ? oups !

MOB has always been a munchkin. What else would he be reading this thread for?

Edited by PhilHibbs
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