Egregious munchkinnery!

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I tested the link, and it works when not logged in. However:

Quote

As an aside, you are in a trance when you cast Sword or Axe Trance. I suspect if you extended it to more than a week, you'd die of dehydration or starvation.

 

Unless you eat with a dagger and drink through a hollow sword.

[g33k]

19 hours ago, gochie said:

... 

Or you could torture a CA priestess and force her to teach you the spell (if you were so inclined). 

That... Seems like an elaborate form of suicide, to me.

[Bill the barbarian]

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

So basically, if you use Chaosium's old Thieves World box as Refuge in Glorantha for expeditions to the Machine Ruins, you cover almost the entire roleplayer fan base (as Chaosium was a Californian company at the time they produced the Thieves World box - though not southern).

Not sure about that, but should you own a copy of Chaosium's coolest non-glorananthan product you would definitely qualify as not only a grognard but also a winner of a shiny new no-prize (yay!).

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

but should you own a copy of Chaosium's coolest non-glorananthan product you would definitely qualify as not only a grognard but also a winner of a shiny new no-prize (yay!).

Lucky me! 😛

[Shiningbrow]

On 4/21/2019 at 8:32 AM, jajagappa said:

Except if you go back to Cults of Prax, with a full writeup of CA, you'll find on p.69

"No non-cult person can be taught this spell. Befuddle was once a special cult battle magic spell as well, but unwise teaching of it beyond the cult led to its use in attacks, perverting its merciful origin. That cult mistake will not be repeated."

I believe this will be reaffirmed in the new Gods book.

Dominate Human?

 

(and, yes, before someone points it out, I would presume a Passion roll to help resist)

[Oracle]

12 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Not sure about that, but should you own a copy of Chaosium's coolest non-glorananthan product you would definitely qualify as not only a grognard but also a winner of a shiny new no-prize (yay!).

Lucky me two 😉

[Tywyll]

On 4/20/2019 at 2:29 PM, Shiningbrow said:

Ah, I didn't add the starting 3RPs to your extra 2 for Extension.... My bad!

However, in saying that... If I was GM, I'd be loathe to give the bonus to both hands for the 1 spell. 1 sword - sure! 2...??? (after all, Bladesharp, which is what this is similar to, is only for 1 sword). I remember the days of Right Hand/Left Hand skills...

Technically, you still do...

pg 225 "Use of a weapon in the “off ” hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulation skills category modifier Also, an adventurer’s DEX must
be at least 1.5 times the minimum DEX needed to use the weapon (always round up) before they may use it off-handed."

Dammit, I was just advising a player to use this option but now I don't know if its such a good idea.

 

[Shiningbrow]

8 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Technically, you still do...

pg 225 "Use of a weapon in the “off ” hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulation skills category modifier Also, an adventurer’s DEX must
be at least 1.5 times the minimum DEX needed to use the weapon (always round up) before they may use it off-handed."

Dammit, I was just advising a player to use this option but now I don't know if its such a good idea.

 

That significantly changes the munchkinnery above... There's quite a bit of presumption in just using 1 skill.

[Kloster]

11 hours ago, Tywyll said:

pg 225 "Use of a weapon in the “off ” hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulation skills category modifier Also, an adventurer’s DEX must
be at least 1.5 times the minimum DEX needed to use the weapon (always round up) before they may use it off-handed."

Sure, Base is 05% for off-hand weapon use, but you can still use half your normal score. After all, this is another weapon skill in the same category.

[Bill the barbarian]

8 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Sure, Base is 05% for off-hand weapon use, but you can still use half your normal score. After all, this is another weapon skill in the same category.

I am not sure if off-handed weapon use is similar enough to qualify as being the same category. You really have to rethink your whole strategy here when changing hands, the muscles are different so even the weight will seem different. The angles you are used to are now backwards. You will not be able to rely on muscle memory (which is an incredibly important in any physical action).

 I play guitar quite well but have been handed guitars often enough by south paws which I have gamely tried to play. and found all my skills are now gone. I had to translate all my knowledge to a new situation (thankfully similar, but still backward) I would have to play with skills I did not have while translating my knowledge (easy translation with time) and playing all at the same time. 

I think the existing penalties are quite fair. Hard weapon skill base at 5% and no similar weapon category bonuses...

Cheers

[Kloster]

32 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I am not sure if off-handed weapon use is similar enough to qualify as being the same category. You really have to rethink your whole strategy here when changing hands, the muscles are different so even the weight will seem different. The angles you are used to are now backwards. You will not be able to rely on muscle memory (which is an incredibly important in any physical action).

Completely agreed. But the half skill is what I understand of the rules, not what I feel about real world. I have practiced fencing quite  a lot, and am completely unable to use a foil, sword or saber with my left hand. On the other hand, I have practiced archery with both hands, with quite similar results.

[Bill the barbarian]

26 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Completely agreed. But the half skill is what I understand of the rules, not what I feel about real world. I have practiced fencing quite  a lot, and am completely unable to use a foil, sword or saber with my left hand. On the other hand, I have practiced archery with both hands, with quite similar results.

Hmm, I am fairly sure that RW and rules actually correspond here.

Just having  a quick  look and while I can find nothing proving your point I can also find nothing proving my point. Stand off (or in RQ terms a tie on the opposed roll). In the real world we both agree that you would have to start from a difficult base to relearn skill off-hand. Question is how is this resolved in the rules.Is an off-handed weapon a different weapon category or is it eligible for the 50% similar weapon skill modifier

 Anyone? Shall we thrash this about here or in a new thread before posting a rule question. Has this already been solved? Will Edna return to Cliff and what is this question from the Guiding Life doing here anyway?

Cheers

Edited April 23, 2019 by Bill the barbarian
pur spelin

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Anyone? Shall we thrash this about here or in a new thread before posting a rule question. Has this already been solved? Will Edna return to Cliff and what is this question from the Guiding Life doing here anyway?

Question asked in the Core Rules thread.

1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Just having  a quick  look and while I can find nothing proving your point I can also find nothing proving my point.

I hadn't find anything neither.

[PhilHibbs]

14 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Dammit, I was just advising a player to use this option but now I don't know if its such a good idea.

A Humakti should be able to get it up to 90, even with a modest +10% Manipulation modifier. It also depends on how generously you interpret the bonuses. Sartarites get Broadsword +15, should you get that as well for off-hand use? I don't see why not. That allows you to get you up to 95% or 100% depending on your modifier and how you allocate your cult and elective choices. What more do you want? 

An Orlanth Adventurous with the same +10 can get both sword skills to 95% and 85%. If you allow the +15 Sartarite bonus, which I would, then that 85% becomes 100%.

Two swords is perfectly achievable. The only down side is the reduced HP for parrying, and the inferior damage taking mechanics. Get yourself an iron sword to parry with, and bless it for +50% HP.

[Bill the barbarian]

1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

A Humakti should be able to get it up to 90, even with a modest +10% Manipulation modifier. It also depends on how generously you interpret the bonuses. Sartarites get Broadsword +15, should you get that as well for off-hand use? I don't see why not. That allows you to get you up to 95% or 100% depending on your modifier and how you allocate your cult and elective choices. What more do you want? 

 

I would assume only if it was culturally appropriate (that is, used culturally in regular practice).

4 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Two swords is perfectly achievable. The only down side is the reduced HP for parrying, and the inferior damage taking mechanics. Get yourself an iron sword to parry with, and bless it for +50% HP.

Even with the stringent limitations it seems I am using, I would agree that two weapon use is achievable.

Cheers

[Kloster]

45 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Sartarites get Broadsword +15, should you get that as well for off-hand use? I don't see why not.

Yes, of course. There is nothing in the rules that say the bonus is right hand only, and the +10% for Orlanth Adventurous apply.

 

47 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Two swords is perfectly achievable. The only down side is the reduced HP for parrying, and the inferior damage taking mechanics. Get yourself an iron sword to parry with, and bless it for +50% HP.

I completely agree here. Another down side is that the sword used for parry can't do anything on projectiles.

[PhilHibbs]

So I've got my Death Rune up to 95% but that isn't enough! I'm so deadly that only 100% Death Rune will do! But I keep failing my increase roll between adventures because it only has a 5% chance of success!

I know, here's what I will do. I'll try to use my Fertility as an augment, because I can do that as often as I like, unless I accidentally succeed and then I have to wait 'til the next session. Each attempt gives me a 5% chance of fumbling, which gives an immediate 1D10% loss in Fertility and corresponding gain in Death! Sure, it's a risk that I will pass before I fumble, and get a tick on Fertility, but that can only happen once per adventure. I have an evens chance of fumbling before I succeed in the next session.

[g33k]

16 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

So I've got my Death Rune up to 95% but that isn't enough! I'm so deadly that only 100% Death Rune will do! But I keep failing my increase roll between adventures because it only has a 5% chance of success!

I know, here's what I will do. I'll try to use my Fertility as an augment, because I can do that as often as I like, unless I accidentally succeed and then I have to wait 'til the next session. Each attempt gives me a 5% chance of fumbling, which gives an immediate 1D10% loss in Fertility and corresponding gain in Death! Sure, it's a risk that I will pass before I fumble, and get a tick on Fertility, but that can only happen once per adventure. I have an evens chance of fumbling before I succeed in the next session.

Ironic result:

- Succeed's in Fertility, gets a check for end-of-season.

- Fumbles in Fertility, takes -d10% rolls 1, Death goes up to 96

- Fertility Check rolls to increase, d6 rolls 6

- Death Rune now at 90%

- Teeth gnash

- Rest of table ROFLMAO's @ poor PhilHibbs

 

[PhilHibbs]

6 minutes ago, g33k said:

Ironic result:

- Succeed's in Fertility, gets a check for end-of-season.

- Fumbles in Fertility, takes -d10% rolls 1, Death goes up to 96

- Fertility Check rolls to increase, d6 rolls 6

- Death Rune now at 90%

- Teeth gnash

- Rest of table ROFLMAO's @ poor PhilHibbs

You have to be persistent to be a true munchkin. And, you don't roll the die, you take the 3.

[g33k]

1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

... And, you don't roll the die, you take the 3.

I hoped someone would spot that little few% advantage!  😁

[Austin]

50 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm so deadly that only 100% Death Rune will do!

Can't you only go up to 99% in the Power Runes? IIRC you've got to have at least 1% in the other portion.

But the point's still there, and still deliciously egregious. Just checking if my memory broke again

[PhilHibbs]

5 minutes ago, Crel said:

Can't you only go up to 99% in the Power Runes? IIRC you've got to have at least 1% in the other portion.

Yes, you're right, p415. Dammit!

[Shiningbrow]

9 hours ago, Kloster said:

Sure, Base is 05% for off-hand weapon use, but you can still use half your normal score. After all, this is another weapon skill in the same category.

 

8 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I am not sure if off-handed weapon use is similar enough to qualify as being the same category. You really have to rethink your whole strategy here when changing hands, the muscles are different so even the weight will seem different. The angles you are used to are now backwards. You will not be able to rely on muscle memory (which is an incredibly important in any physical action).

 I play guitar quite well but have been handed guitars often enough by south paws which I have gamely tried to play. and found all my skills are now gone. I had to translate all my knowledge to a new situation (thankfully similar, but still backward) I would have to play with skills I did not have while translating my knowledge (easy translation with time) and playing all at the same time. 

I think the existing penalties are quite fair. Hard weapon skill base at 5% and no similar weapon category bonuses...

Cheers

 

8 hours ago, Kloster said:

Completely agreed. But the half skill is what I understand of the rules, not what I feel about real world. I have practiced fencing quite  a lot, and am completely unable to use a foil, sword or saber with my left hand. On the other hand, I have practiced archery with both hands, with quite similar results.

 

7 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Hmm, I am fairly sure that RW and rules actually correspond here.

Just having  a quick  look and while I can find nothing proving your point I can also find nothing proving my point. Stand off (or in RQ terms a tie on the opposed roll). In the real world we both agree that you would have to start from a difficult base to relearn skill off-hand. Question is how is this resolved in the rules.Is an off-handed weapon a different weapon category or is it eligible for the 50% similar weapon skill modifier

 Anyone? Shall we thrash this about here or in a new thread before posting a rule question. Has this already been solved? Will Edna return to Cliff and what is this question from the Guiding Life doing here anyway?

Cheers

P225 -

"Every adventurer is assumed to be right-handed, unless otherwise determined... Use of a weapon in the "off" hand must be started at 05%, with the usual addition or subtraction for their Manipulations skills category..."

However...

"The player must keep track of the individual weapon expertise of the adventurer with each weapon as used in each hand. Training or experience in using a weapon left-handed does not help the right-handed attack or parry with the same weapon, except that the half effectiveness rule applies. For example, use of a dagger left-handed, allows the adventurer to use it right-handed at half the left-handed ability". (my emphasis)

 

 

[PhilHibbs]

9 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

"The player must keep track of the individual weapon expertise of the adventurer with each weapon as used in each hand. Training or experience in using a weapon left-handed does not help the right-handed attack or parry with the same weapon, except that the half effectiveness rule applies. For example, use of a dagger left-handed, allows the adventurer to use it right-handed at half the left-handed ability". (my emphasis)

Oh, thanks. There is an implication there that although you might have a 50% right hand attack including, say, a 10% modifier, and can use a left-hand sword at 25%, you still have to train your left hand skill up from 15%. During that time, you have to roll using your 15% offhand skill in order to get a tick on that skill, rather than your halved right-hand sword skill. That's pretty tough. If you're going to go for an off-hand weapon, get it done in character creation!

[Kloster]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh, thanks. There is an implication there that although you might have a 50% right hand attack including, say, a 10% modifier, and can use a left-hand sword at 25%, you still have to train your left hand skill up from 15%. During that time, you have to roll using your 15% offhand skill in order to get a tick on that skill, rather than your halved right-hand sword skill. That's pretty tough. If you're going to go for an off-hand weapon, get it done in character creation!

Why do you have to train from 15%? RQG p207 says you can use half your best skill in the category. I understand it you start at 25% (with the figures you gave).