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HQG takes the back seat to RQG

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9 hours ago, Steve said:

ss is too modest to promote his own site, but I'll gladly do it for him

Oh yeah, thanks, forgot about that one!

Edited by soltakss
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On 5/3/2019 at 1:48 PM, Rick Meints said:

Then why make the comparison? I feel this is comparing Apples and Oranges. Comparing the core rulebook of RQG, or the Bestiary, or the GM screen pack to a campaign pack like Sartar: KoH or Pavis: GtA when they have very different purposes seems odd. I could see comparing the RGQ core book with the HQG core book, but a rule book and a campaign book have very different content goals. It would be like saying the Argan Argar Atlas fails because it doesn't have enough rules content in it, or spells in it as opposed to the rulebook. The same could be said with comparing the Guide to Glorantha with Snakepipe Hollow and saying the Guide fails because it doesn't have enough scenario material it with stats. I can see why you like the HQ scenario books a lot, and am not trying to argue over whether you prefer them, but saying the RQG core rulebook pales in comparison to them is a very different thing.

I wasn’t ever attempting to compare apples to apples. I’m comparing the HeroQuest line, which is seemingly being sidelined and de-prioritized, with the new RuneQuest: Glorantha line, which is cannibalizing the resources and materials that might have gone into new HQ products.

HeroQuest releases have always been slow, but as focus has shifted to RuneQuest it is becoming even slower. Because we’ve gotten products like RQG, the Bestiary, and the GM Screen, other HeroQuest materials have been delayed or cancelled. Further, projects planned for HeroQuest are being diverted and repurposed for RuneQuest.

This is why there is a comparison. Because we’re going to get a 1625 version of Whitewall for RuneQuest, we’ll never see the planned version of Whitewall for 1618 HeroQuest. Further, before we get richly detailed sourcebooks, we’re getting general purpose RuneQuest products. Even the general view in RQG fails to match the standards of HeroQuest. Compare the details of the cults of Ernalda and Orlanth in HeroQuest Glorantha with the same cults in RQG. It isn’t even close. These products lack and focus and depth of the HeroQuest products that we were receiving and likely mean the repurposed content for RuneQuest will lack the depth that we would have gotten for HeroQuest. Products we were ready to receive for the HeroQuest line are being delayed to make room for much more generalist products to be produced for RuneQuest.

I could go deep into the details that are included in the sources, but I’d rather move this back toward the positive affirmation of the HeroQuest product line it was intended to be initially. The material for HeroQuest has been excellent and provides all the basis I need for a game set in Glorantha, even if we’re using the RuneQuest system. There’s a streamlining of RuneQuest and a regressive retcon in favor of RQ2 that I find deeply regrettable as the excellent material developed for Hero Wars and HeroQuest was much stronger and more culturally and mythologically complex and satisfying.

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I'm hoping that we will continue to get product into your hands, so that you can continue to use HQG for all your Glorantha gaming. Thanks @daskindt for your passion for what we have done with the line so far. I hope to continue in that vein, and with luck grow our numbers so that we can move faster.

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On 5/30/2019 at 8:45 PM, Lemurion said:

Personally, and much as I am coming to like HeroQuest, I can completely see why Chaosium is focusing on RQG. 

Ah, but Ian, in the 20 or so years that other game systems have been available for Glorantha, I have only played RQ G, and KoDP. Still. page for page, I wonder if I have more HQ than RQ... G2G is tipping the scales.... but... I had to think about it... but RQ still wins 

Nonetheless, if you keep putting out the fine Glorantha products I have seen for HQ I will keep buying them, whether or not I ever play them as originally intended.

Cheers

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On 5/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, daskindt said:

Compare the details of the cults of Ernalda and Orlanth in HeroQuest Glorantha with the same cults in RQG. It isn’t even close.

 

On 5/7/2019 at 12:47 PM, daskindt said:

 These products lack and focus and depth of the HeroQuest products that we were receiving and likely mean the repurposed content for RuneQuest will lack the depth that we would have gotten for HeroQuest.

The RQG Gods of Glorantha will be full of glorious depth on these and many many other cults. The project just seems to have rather gotten out of hand. But when it arrives, it will be pretty great. 

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On 5/7/2019 at 7:47 AM, daskindt said:

There’s a streamlining of RuneQuest and a regressive retcon in favor of RQ2 that I find deeply regrettable as the excellent material developed for Hero Wars and HeroQuest was much stronger and more culturally and mythologically complex and satisfying.

I agree with this and have pretty much lost interest in playing in Glorantha now. HQ for sure I will still play, but I just cant get motivated with the new Runequest. 

That said I've moved on and found/rediscovered other games and am having a blast.

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I recently revisited my Lunar adventure book Red Sun Rising, after @AndreasDavour sent me a personal message about some of its inconsistencies, and reflected on the fact that it was written in the early 2000s using the information (both setting and rules) that was emerging like a butterfly from a cocoon at the time. This then led me to muse about HeroQuest's development and the 20 odd years worth of official and fan effort. Remember Unspoken Word's excellent adventures/setting material as well as the stuff that came out in the first five issues of Hearts in Glorantha/Gloranthan Adventures. 

20 YEARS OF STUFF!!

Then it hit me I've only scratched the surface of the later HQ material, that I never ran a full game of HQ G, or brought the power of what the Guide presents to my table.  That in many ways I've been too quick to run off to pastures new to experience the new shiny of RQ G/13th Age (both of which I've dabbled in by running convention scenarios). 

I totally respect Chaosium's decision to focus on RuneQuest as their vehicle for exploring Glorantha, from both a creative and financial point of view, but I question my own decision to jump ship and abandon HQ which is now a very stable and mature system/setting.

I must turn this navel-gazing into action :)

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Horray! More HQ love. :)

I also see why Chaosium focus on what makes money, and RQ is a traditional game that people can recognize. But, I am silently wondering how much of the sales are old people who never let go of RQ in the first place? When I started playing, it was the veneered ancestor that was so important for all new games, but it was showing its age and clunkyness. It sounded very strange to me to bring it back and I still have no interest at all in playing it, as I never did when I was young. But, what do I know of the market forces...

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6 hours ago, Newt said:

I must turn this navel-gazing into action :)

You must! you must! 

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It has been done :)

I'm going to keep my trap shut for now since there's chunk of work that needs to be done before I can let slip any details, but expect some news on the HeroQuest Glorantha front from D101 soon :)

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5 hours ago, Newt said:

I'm going to keep my trap shut for now since there's chunk of work that needs to be done before I can let slip any details, but expect some news on the HeroQuest Glorantha front from D101 soon :)

Where's that gif about shutting up and taking my money when you need it?

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13 hours ago, AndreasDavour said:

... But, I am silently wondering how much of the sales are old people who never let go of RQ in the first place?

...

Not so "silently."  ;)

I really think it comes down to money / sales.  They looked at HQ & HQG sales, and they looked at the RQClassic KS going from a 30K ask to a 200K final, and they called it according to what the customers wanted.

And if the customers are "old people" (seriously, dude?)... well... so what?  Chaosium needs to keep the lights on, keep artists and authors paid, etc etc etc.  They are selling to customers who buy stuff, and if RQ customers buy more stuff than HQ customers... Guess where Chaosium produces stuff?

I do not doubt -- not for a moment! -- that if the new HQ (and HQ-specific Gloranthan content) begins to sell at something approaching the rate of RQG, then nuChaosium will add authors &c to ramp up production.  If there are enough customers with enough money, buying lots of new titles, I expect Chaosium will be VERY happy to produce new titles!

I honestly hope it works that way, that HQ3 & the OGL/SRD strategy puts HQ / HQG up in the same range as RQG and CoC, a new Pillar of Chaosium productivity & sales!  I don't expect that, mind you...  I expect it already would be there, if it was going to.  The HQ2/HQG engine is a strong one, not widely criticized for weak mechanics or confusing verbiage.  So -- unless there is some radical redesign that excites, or Chaosium finds a new market or marketing method -- I expect HQ will continue chugging along in much the same role:  not so sluggish as to get the MagicWorld treatment, nor so explosive as to cannibalize other product lines.

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I consider myself to be among the old dudes. ;)

I agree with the whole analysis, but I just hope sales keep up and bring in new people. It's always the recruitment thing that's key. But, whatever! We are here, HQ is here, RQ is here and it's game on! :D

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On 7/10/2019 at 2:24 PM, Bill the barbarian said:

Hay, I resemble that remark, bub (seriously dude:)! Ah, you young pups...

Yeah, but YOU got to see the cool bands!

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On 5/3/2019 at 7:05 AM, lordabdul said:

Also, it's not like it went fast with HQ either. Even when you don't count HeroWars and only start with HeroQuest, there's a 7 year gap between the rule book (2003) and S:KoH (2009). Then there's an 8 year span for releasing all those cool books (P:GtA was 2012, TCS/11L was 2016 and 2017).

Well... HQ:CR came out in 2009 & S:KoH a few months later but still in the same year! It was absolutely incredible. I remember it very well & the sheer amount of pure Glorantha Gold we got in such a short time was so amazing & such a delight that it's hard not to see this year as the start of the Glorantha renaissance & golden age we are living in. And all this done -at that time- by those two part-timer fans, @Rick Meints & @Jeff! Sartar Companion followed in 2010 & P:GtA in 2012. And then came The Guide...but that's another story !?!

 

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On 4/28/2019 at 2:20 PM, Ian Cooper said:

Great question. We tried to film something at a Kraken, but it didn't really work out. The bar, unfortunately has gotten quite high for this stuff when done officially, so it might be better for some fans to record and upload their actual play.

I generally thought that as well and I definitely think players should record and upload their Actual Play. I was a bit intimidated by the idea that I would have to figure out how to host everyone live, difficult in many ways, or have everyone on camera. The latter is less difficult but I was worried would still cause my laptop issues (the big rig died and needs replacing). 

But recently I fell in with a rough crowd of RPG players who stream.  The way they do it (and the way I think I am going to do it) is with Discord and Roll20 and OBS and you only see the GM's face, though you hear everyone else. There are also some Podcasts that are pure audio and no video at all.  It works really well. Here is session 1 of the Tiny Dungeons 2E; I play the human Cauldor, who is heavily influenced by several of my old Glorantha characters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owyw8-SVbhU&t=244s

And there is a HQG character sheet on Roll20. So I think that HQG would well for a format like that. As I get a better handle on HQG I am considering doing something. 

Okay back to the core discussion, thanks for the digression. :) 

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