Making HEROES for the Hero Wars

[Shiningbrow]

9 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

Thank you for explaining this! Yes, I probably have misintepreted the rules a bit, but... I still think it's a lot of casting possibilities for budding heroes. As I say, just the possibility of all this casting is too much for me, let  alone understanding for the players as they are quite new in this here. It should be a lesser amount in my mind - except when you are a playing a true representative of the temple/faith, such as a priest or a shaman/assistant shaman.

I also think that the role of a representative of the faith is really lessened when this much magic and this type of magic is spread throughout to just about everyone. In my eyes, if a group or a person that is not this kind of representative(s) finds some rune magic laid on something hindering them, let's say a Spirit Block or a Warding, then the interesting thing would be to have these people understand that they can't solve that kind of thing themselves. They need a priest or a shaman to take a look on this problem. In my eyes, only such a person should be the solution to something like this.

But, they are budding heroes. Close to becoming that Shaman or Rune Priest (or Rune Lord).

I do understand that for the new player, the amount of spells available will be a little overwhelming (although, mostly for Spirit Magic... not so much for Rune Spells), but it shouldn't take too long to get over that.

Also remember... as per the Glorantha Adventurer's book, there are about 12,000 people in the Colymar tribe - including about 5000 kids, and 7000 adults. 3000 adults are (free) farmers.. so, almost half. The rest are half-free. Meaning - most won't be adventuring anywhere too soon. (at best, they might go on a raid once or maybe twice a year).

Of those 7000 adults, all should be Initiates of their local cult (usually the most dominant, but not always), but only 100 will be higher. Our heroes are expected to be a part of those 100 fairly shortly...

[Austin]

21 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

I also think that the role of a representative of the faith is really lessened when this much magic and this type of magic is spread throughout to just about everyone. In my eyes, if a group or a person that is not this kind of representative(s) finds some rune magic laid on something hindering them, let's say a Spirit Block or a Warding, then the interesting thing would be to have these people understand that they can't solve that kind of thing themselves.

Here's another way to look at it: my take is that the starting adventurer in RQG, as an initiate, is already someone who can be treated as a representative of their faith. They aren't a major figure, but to some degree they've already become someone significant to their community. At least, that's what I think is the dev intention. Whether or not that's the best approach is another matter.

It's also worth noting that not every cult gets every common Rune spell. Eurmal, for example, only gets Divination, Extension, and Multispell (IIRC). And while @Shiningbrow is right about how important and precious RP are on an adventure, having access to common+3 at adventurer creation does provide lots of both complexity and flexibility.

2 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Of those 7000 adults, all should be Initiates of their local cult (usually the most dominant, but not always), but only 100 will be higher.

IIRC they're mostly lay members, not "initiates" in the game sense. There's a bit of text in the Core of "most adults are initiates" which was confirmed sometime last summer to not mean game-term "Initiate" but just a member. Which is super annoying, yes, but a relevant distinction. You are correct AFAIK that starting adventurers are expected to reach that upper 100 fairly quickly, I think.

[Shiningbrow]

2 minutes ago, Crel said:

Here's another way to look at it: my take is that the starting adventurer in RQG, as an initiate, is already someone who can be treated as a representative of their faith. They aren't a major figure, but to some degree they've already become someone significant to their community. At least, that's what I think is the dev intention. Whether or not that's the best approach is another matter.

It's also worth noting that not every cult gets every common Rune spell. Eurmal, for example, only gets Divination, Extension, and Multispell (IIRC). And while @Shiningbrow is right about how important and precious RP are on an adventure, having access to common+3 at adventurer creation does provide lots of both complexity and flexibility.

 

Actually, a basic starting PC is about 2 sacrificed POW to Rune Points from being a God-Talker.... and I imagine most GMs would be willing to let the player do it!

RE: Lay Members... yeah, makes the concept of being "initiated" into adulthood rather confusing, as that usually means initiation also into the cult. They'd also be Lay Members of the Associated Cults of their main cult.

Clarification requested...

[Tywyll]

37 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

Thank you for explaining this! Yes, I probably have misintepreted the rules a bit, but... I still think it's a lot of casting possibilities for budding heroes. As I say, just the possibility of all this casting is too much for me, let  alone understanding for the players as they are quite new in this here. It should be a lesser amount in my mind - except when you are a playing a true representative of the temple/faith, such as a priest or a shaman/assistant shaman.

I also think that the role of a representative of the faith is really lessened when this much magic and this type of magic is spread throughout to just about everyone. In my eyes, if a group or a person that is not this kind of representative(s) finds some rune magic laid on something hindering them, let's say a Spirit Block or a Warding, then the interesting thing would be to have these people understand that they can't solve that kind of thing themselves. They need a priest or a shaman to take a look on this problem. In my eyes, only such a person should be the solution to something like this.

In the setting, initiates are those representatives of faith. Not everyone has burned 3 POW, or even 1 POW. You are playing characters who have already reached that level of significance. Older versions of RQ had you start before you became an Initiate and then it was something you did in game. You could always do that if you wanted (remove the Cult section of character creation, drop their spirit magic maybe, though even laymember learn some spirit magic, and ditch their rune points. 

But the new RQ has you playing more powerful, more important characters. They don't need (often) to get others to solve their problems...they are the problem solvers. 

Why 'gate' your problems behind NPCs the PCs need to supplicate for aid? Let them sort the world. 

[Austin]

3 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, a basic starting PC is about 2 sacrificed POW to Rune Points from being a God-Talker.... and I imagine most GMs would be willing to let the player do it!

Putting them into that top 100

But yeah, you're basically right. And as a GM, I'd allow it. IMHO the main barrier to reaching Rune levels isn't the required RP, but rather the skills required. Especially for some with required skills that can't be increased by experience, like Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy.

[Shiningbrow]

6 minutes ago, Crel said:

Putting them into that top 100

But yeah, you're basically right. And as a GM, I'd allow it. IMHO the main barrier to reaching Rune levels isn't the required RP, but rather the skills required. Especially for some with required skills that can't be increased by experience, like Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy.

True. I was thinking about trying to find out what combination (not including stats, but obviously minimum CHA and POW) would get closest.

Re: those LM skills.... I don't see why having a cast of Logician to a language they can barely R/W, then transcribe/translate a treatise on a Lore from one language to another (especially if said Initiate has the Total Recall spell available).

I think we've all gone up a few % in Gloranthan Lore by our readings of the various texts... pretty sure it didn't take years and years and years (although, I wonder who would claim to have 100%... or even 90%)

[Austin]

Back on the subject of characteristics...

On p.53, the book notes that if an adventurer's rolled characteristics (before Elemental Rune bonuses) equal 92 or less, that adventurer gains +3 points spread where they wish with a max of 18. Minus 12 from the racial bonuses to SIZ and INT, that's assuming 80 points over 19D6, for an average of 4.21 rolled per die, whereas the usual D6 average is 3.5. 

Another way to look at this is taking that 92, subtract 26 (for average SIZ and INT of 13 each), then divide the resulting 66 among the five 3D6 characteristics, for an average across them of 13.2.

Further, in the "Perfectly All Right" sidebar on the same page, it notes that players may want to throw away adventurers which don't have average characteristics of 12 or greater.

So I think the obvious conclusion is that yeah, adventurers should absolutely have better characteristics than those generated by the RAW roll generation. Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! So I'd say that method of characteristic generation is well suited for rolling STR, CON, DEX, POW, and CHA. Maybe even re-rolling ones atop that, or keeping the ">92? add 3" rule; it seems to me that the text implies a total of 92 points across the characteristics is an "average" or "slightly weak" adventurer.

[dracopticon]

16 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

Older versions of RQ had you start before you became an Initiate and then it was something you did in game. You could always do that if you wanted (remove the Cult section of character creation, drop their spirit magic maybe, though even laymember learn some spirit magic, and ditch their rune points.

I understand that my approach to the whole "Hero Wars character feel" is confusing, as it seems I want beefed up characters in the characteristics departement but not in magics. The reason for this is that I want magics and runes to be more of a mystery and something that comes from experience. So yes, I think I will both run the "before-initiate" start for PCs and also lessen the amounts of possible magic they can have/use, and give the majority of such knowledge to the priests/shamans.

[dracopticon]

2 hours ago, Crel said:

Back on the subject of characteristics...

On p.53, the book notes that if an adventurer's rolled characteristics (before Elemental Rune bonuses) equal 92 or less, that adventurer gains +3 points spread where they wish with a max of 18. Minus 12 from the racial bonuses to SIZ and INT, that's assuming 80 points over 19D6, for an average of 4.21 rolled per die, whereas the usual D6 average is 3.5. 

Another way to look at this is taking that 92, subtract 26 (for average SIZ and INT of 13 each), then divide the resulting 66 among the five 3D6 characteristics, for an average across them of 13.2.

Further, in the "Perfectly All Right" sidebar on the same page, it notes that players may want to throw away adventurers which don't have average characteristics of 12 or greater.

So I think the obvious conclusion is that yeah, adventurers should absolutely have better characteristics than those generated by the RAW roll generation. Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! So I'd say that method of characteristic generation is well suited for rolling STR, CON, DEX, POW, and CHA. Maybe even re-rolling ones atop that, or keeping the ">92? add 3" rule; it seems to me that the text implies a total of 92 points across the characteristics is an "average" or "slightly weak" adventurer.

Yes! This sounds very good as a soothener on my concern that I might have overdone it a bit. Thanks for clarifying this. And I myself should clarify that I only have the pdf's of the basic rulebook, but the physical books of everything else that has come out for RQG (except the bestiary and the GM pack). I have gotten a heads up from the store it is being packed and shipped today (I am awaiting the slipcase set).

I am also not much of a mathematician. In real life I am a social worker, so not much use of that there.

Edited May 10, 2019 by dracopticon

[Austin]

6 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

So yes, I think I will both run the "before-initiate" start for PCs and also lessen the amounts of possible magic they can have/use, and give the majority of such knowledge to the priests/shamans.

I'm not sure if this will be helpful for your game, but I also wanted to tune down the quantity of Rune magic in mine, so here's what I've been playing in mine:

All cults have access to all common magic, because I can't be bothered to keep track of which's which. Stackable spells have to be bought at each point, although the RP pool in total can be used for whatever. Each adventurer begins play knowing each common spell at their base value, has 3RP, and 3 points to add to their known spells. So for example, an initiate of Orlanth might choose Flight 2 and an extra point of Dismiss Magic, so they can get rid of spirit magic spells up to 4MP. When you sacrifice POW, you get that number of Rune points as well as that many points extra "learned" of spells of your choice.

I should note that I am actually considering removing this, or perhaps removing it for special Rune magic but keeping it for common magic (which I think would have the effect you desire--only "professional magicians" tend to have access to significant Dismiss Magic, Warding, Sanctify, Divination, etc.). Ultimately, with the Rune point economy my game has experience, at this time I don't think trying to avoid my players casting season-long Shield spells with freely known Extension is too relevant.

Now, if someone would roll up a POW-18 adventurer and drop 8 POW at creation for 11 total RP, I'd probably be a bit more hesitant to reverse our current rule... But you've really gotta reach that 10+ mark, I think, before some of the shenanigans options really come to the fore. Otherwise you've got your big spell, but no reserves.

Also to piggy-back off my characteristics post I just double-checked the Pre-Gens and wow those are some stats. Across them, there is one 9, on Harmast, and three 10s (one each on Vasana, Vostor, and poor Harmast).

[dracopticon]

1 hour ago, Crel said:

I'm not sure if this will be helpful for your game, but I also wanted to tune down the quantity of Rune magic in mine, so here's what I've been playing in mine:

All cults have access to all common magic, because I can't be bothered to keep track of which's which. Stackable spells have to be bought at each point, although the RP pool in total can be used for whatever. Each adventurer begins play knowing each common spell at their base value, has 3RP, and 3 points to add to their known spells. So for example, an initiate of Orlanth might choose Flight 2 and an extra point of Dismiss Magic, so they can get rid of spirit magic spells up to 4MP. When you sacrifice POW, you get that number of Rune points as well as that many points extra "learned" of spells of your choice.

I should note that I am actually considering removing this, or perhaps removing it for special Rune magic but keeping it for common magic (which I think would have the effect you desire--only "professional magicians" tend to have access to significant Dismiss Magic, Warding, Sanctify, Divination, etc.). Ultimately, with the Rune point economy my game has experience, at this time I don't think trying to avoid my players casting season-long Shield spells with freely known Extension is too relevant.

Now, if someone would roll up a POW-18 adventurer and drop 8 POW at creation for 11 total RP, I'd probably be a bit more hesitant to reverse our current rule... But you've really gotta reach that 10+ mark, I think, before some of the shenanigans options really come to the fore. Otherwise you've got your big spell, but no reserves.

Also to piggy-back off my characteristics post I just double-checked the Pre-Gens and wow those are some stats. Across them, there is one 9, on Harmast, and three 10s (one each on Vasana, Vostor, and poor Harmast).

That is helpful, although I still don't have that total overlooking grasp of the whole magic system.

But I'm wondering, what would happen if I was to allow just one spell per character and that's IF they reach intitiate level (as lay member nothing)? The priest/shaman on the other hand would have 3 spells (Priests = rune magic, shamans = spirit magic both 3 each) from start. And the type of spells as I (and you) mentioned earlier: Dismiss Magic, Warding, Sanctify, Divination, etc. are the domain of just the priest and/or shaman?

Edited May 10, 2019 by dracopticon

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, Crel said:

Back on the subject of characteristics...

On p.53, the book notes that if an adventurer's rolled characteristics (before Elemental Rune bonuses) equal 92 or less, that adventurer gains +3 points spread where they wish with a max of 18. Minus 12 from the racial bonuses to SIZ and INT, that's assuming 80 points over 19D6, for an average of 4.21 rolled per die, whereas the usual D6 average is 3.5. 

Another way to look at this is taking that 92, subtract 26 (for average SIZ and INT of 13 each), then divide the resulting 66 among the five 3D6 characteristics, for an average across them of 13.2.

Further, in the "Perfectly All Right" sidebar on the same page, it notes that players may want to throw away adventurers which don't have average characteristics of 12 or greater.

So I think the obvious conclusion is that yeah, adventurers should absolutely have better characteristics than those generated by the RAW roll generation. Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! So I'd say that method of characteristic generation is well suited for rolling STR, CON, DEX, POW, and CHA. Maybe even re-rolling ones atop that, or keeping the ">92? add 3" rule; it seems to me that the text implies a total of 92 points across the characteristics is an "average" or "slightly weak" adventurer.

I completely agree here. I will just consider a 92 pointer as an average character, not slightly weak. He is sufficiently above the cut to be at least average.

[Shiningbrow]

1 hour ago, Crel said:

Putting them into that top 100

But yeah, you're basically right. And as a GM, I'd allow it. IMHO the main barrier to reaching Rune levels isn't the required RP, but rather the skills required. Especially for some with required skills that can't be increased by experience, like Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy.

Just quickly looking over possibilities... getting those 5x90% for Rune Lord isn't really that hard at starting if they have good starting stats (see Bless Pregnancy 😛 ). (BTW, Humakti Swords only need one Sword at 90%, plus only three other skills at 90%... with the +20% to cult skill Gift, and you can take 3 of them at initiation - that's made really easy!)

If STR, CON (and if possible, SIZ) become 'dump' stats (ie, not so crappy you can't pick up your sword) and try to get high in INT (21 is best, for the extra +5% on lots of categories), we know the CHA needs to be at least 18, and so should POW... then your weapon skills just based at least 25% (plus culture... plus occupation... plus cult (if so inclined)... plus personal skills))... and you have Rune Lord!

Many PCs are likely to start with at least 1 weapon skill at 90%, possibly two (especially if you choose dagger),  plus shield. So, right from that, you've got 3 out of 5 skills for Orlanth Wind  Lord or Humakti Sword. (if you choose Humakt, you actually have to spread them around, or you'd waste skills over 100....)

Other cult skills are likely to be in the 80s or higher as well.

 

So, with the right choices, players could (technically qualified to) be Rune Lord within a year - if not at starting...

 

[Tywyll]

2 hours ago, dracopticon said:

I understand that my approach to the whole "Hero Wars character feel" is confusing, as it seems I want beefed up characters in the characteristics departement but not in magics. The reason for this is that I want magics and runes to be more of a mystery and something that comes from experience. So yes, I think I will both run the "before-initiate" start for PCs and also lessen the amounts of possible magic they can have/use, and give the majority of such knowledge to the priests/shamans.

 

2 hours ago, dracopticon said:

I understand that my approach to the whole "Hero Wars character feel" is confusing, as it seems I want beefed up characters in the characteristics departement but not in magics. The reason for this is that I want magics and runes to be more of a mystery and something that comes from experience. So yes, I think I will both run the "before-initiate" start for PCs and also lessen the amounts of possible magic they can have/use, and give the majority of such knowledge to the priests/shamans.

Obviously YGMV and all that, but it seems like you are missing a big draw in Runequest, which is the ubiquitous nature of magic. Shaman and Priests still have a (important) role, despite players having easy magic access...especially for spirit world matters. I don't think you need to gimp them so severely. Heck, look at RQ3 where every 'civilized' person used Sorcery. 

[Tywyll]

23 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just quickly looking over possibilities... getting those 5x90% for Rune Lord isn't really that hard at starting if they have good starting stats (see Bless Pregnancy 😛 ). (BTW, Humakti Swords only need one Sword at 90%, plus only three other skills at 90%... with the +20% to cult skill Gift, and you can take 3 of them at initiation - that's made really easy!)

If STR, CON (and if possible, SIZ) become 'dump' stats (ie, not so crappy you can't pick up your sword) and try to get high in INT (21 is best, for the extra +5% on lots of categories), we know the CHA needs to be at least 18, and so should POW... then your weapon skills just based at least 25% (plus culture... plus occupation... plus cult (if so inclined)... plus personal skills))... and you have Rune Lord!

Many PCs are likely to start with at least 1 weapon skill at 90%, possibly two (especially if you choose dagger),  plus shield. So, right from that, you've got 3 out of 5 skills for Orlanth Wind  Lord or Humakti Sword. (if you choose Humakt, you actually have to spread them around, or you'd waste skills over 100....)

Other cult skills are likely to be in the 80s or higher as well.

 

So, with the right choices, players could (technically qualified to) be Rune Lord within a year - if not at starting...

 

Even with the ridiculous stat mods as I described earlier, none of my players made RL. The 'Humakt' player didn't want to take the Geas to get his skills up (though even if he had, he wouldn't make all of them). 

[PhilHibbs]

Does anyone else think that the existence of Bless Pregnancy is a good enough reason to throw out the 18 limit for the 3 points distributed if you rolled low?

[Tywyll]

7 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Does anyone else think that the existence of Bless Pregnancy is a good enough reason to throw out the 18 limit for the 3 points distributed if you rolled low?

Absolutely.

 

[Kloster]

18 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Does anyone else think that the existence of Bless Pregnancy is a good enough reason to throw out the 18 limit for the 3 points distributed if you rolled low?

I'm not sure. What I'm sure is that there will be arguing between players that want to go above 18 and GMs.

[Austin]

So I was thinking through a point-buy system a little, and while I don't feel I'm competent to create a scaled one--a system in which higher characteristics cost greater and greater points--here's what's currently bouncing around in my head.

92 is noted as an important metric in the book for adventurer creation, giving +3 points if you're at or below that point in total. So we'll start with 95 points. Reduce the minimum score in each attribute ([3x5]+[2x8])=31 to get a total of 64 points to distribute as the player wishes on a one-for-one basis. Finally, no characteristic generated this way can exceed 18.

Unfortunately I don't think this is a great system because of the degree to which it is gameable. For example, pretty much every character built with this is gonna have at least either 15 or 17 INT (depending on if they anticipate a starting primary Fire/Sky Rune), and probably POW as well. But if you like point-buy systems, maybe this is a place to start.

[Austin]

Also, it's worth noting for the conversation at large that the pre-gen characters vary from 98 points (Vasana) to 103 points (Vishi Dunn). This presumably includes Elemental Rune bonuses.

Edited May 10, 2019 by Crel

[Shiningbrow]

2 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Does anyone else think that the existence of Bless Pregnancy is a good enough reason to throw out the 18 limit for the 3 points distributed if you rolled low?

Definitely!

[Steve3742]

11 hours ago, Crel said:

Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! 

Not what I get...

For 3d6, the average is 10.5, as most people know.

For "3d6, re-roll 1s", the average is 12.00

For "Roll 4d6, drop the lowest", the average is 12.24 - slightly higher. But it's not 13, and it's actually closer to 12 than 13.

Finally, for "Roll 4d6, re-roll 1s and drop the lowest" - which the OP suggested - the average is 13.43.

 

For both the re-roll 1s, I've assumed they get re-rolled indefinitely until no longer a 1. If you only re-roll once (keeping a 1 if rolled), the averages become 11.75 instead of 12 for "3d6, re-roll 1s"and 13.27 instead of 13.43, for "Roll 4d6, re-roll 1s and drop the lowest"

If anyone wants to look at the graphs, you could click on this link. (and click the "graph" button)

[soltakss]

On 5/8/2019 at 11:15 AM, dracopticon said:

What do you think? Have I done something sacreligious? I am not a stranger to harsh critique, so please say what you want (except perhaps personal insults and the like). 

Sounds OK to me.

Some people have very different views on starting characters, that they need to start off as weak, or that you need to follow the rules exactly. Personally, I don't really care. I let players swap out skills, in the same way that you allowed Farming to be swapped for Hunt.

If it suits your game, then it works for you and that is what is important.

Also, it's very rare that you get personal insults in this forum.

[soltakss]

On 5/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, dracopticon said:

A related question (but one in the opposite direction, at least for me as GM) is: do anyone else feel that it is A LOT of magic flying around for starting characters to be able to use? I mean 11 common rune magic spells, 3 pts of special rune magic and another 5 pts of cult spirit magic (if the cult has it)? As a GM I feel overwhelmed with the potential rules browsing this presents once the fighting begins, even if being well read up on the spells!

As someone who has been playing RQ for an awfully long time, I don't struggle with this at all. However, I completely understand that this answer is not helpful to you at all.

What I do is to have a list of the spells that the PCs have and a very short description of what they do. You can refer to this in the game if you want.

Also, as a GM, you don't care about what spells the PCs have, unless they are about to expire. As an example, Sven casts Bladesharp 4 and Jaran casts Protection 4, they start combat with some broos, as a GM you are just interested in what the broos have, "OK Sven, what's your attack chance?", "85 with my Bladesharp, I roll 15, a Special", "The broo hits you, Jaran, doing 7 points of damage, does it get through?", "No, I've got 4 points of armour and Protection 4, so it bounces". See, you don't need to care, the Players take care of that kind of thing. You might want a Round Tracker, with notes of who cast which spell when, so that you know when they expire, because Players can very easily forget that their spells only last for 10 rounds in a 12 round combat.

On 5/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, dracopticon said:

If I have 4 or 5 players and everyone wants to lay different spells and they also meet opponents with a similar plethora of spells, phew! is the only thing I want to say. I understand that after a while the familiarity with the most common of them kicks in, but I still have a lot to run book keeping on during battle. 

It does get easier and, after a while, becomes second nature.

What I do is to give NPCs far fewer spells than PCs and not use them all at once. Sure, some might cast Bladesharp, Ironhand, Protection, Shimmer and so on, but those are fairly easy to manage

On 5/9/2019 at 3:06 PM, dracopticon said:

And to be totally honest, the common rune spells of Command Cult Spirit, Dismiss Magic, Divination, Sanctify, Soul Sight, Spirit Block and Warding all sound like a priest would likely be the expert on, not just anyone, while the spells of Find Enemy, Heal Wound, Multispell and Extension sounds like more common to me. Am I totally in the wrong here?

Yes, sure, that sounds right. 

However, Common Magic isn't about spells that everyone has, it's spells that everyone could get. So, you choose 3 Runespells to start, I think, so you could choose Find Enemy or Heal Wound, or you could choose a cult special spell that is really useful.

Don't underestimate Warding, it has saved many a party over the years.

[jajagappa]

On 5/9/2019 at 10:06 AM, dracopticon said:

And to be totally honest, the common rune spells of Command Cult Spirit, Dismiss Magic, Divination, Sanctify, Soul Sight, Spirit Block and Warding all sound like a priest would likely be the expert on, not just anyone, while the spells of Find Enemy, Heal Wound, Multispell and Extension sounds like more common to me. Am I totally in the wrong here?

As an initiate you've entered into the secrets of your deity - you experience the great rituals directly and interact with not only the priests but the spirits of the cult.

It's not too likely that you will be called upon to Sanctify and Ward holy ground. But if the temple has sanctioned you to go on an important mission and you need to interact with the deity, you need to do so on holy ground.  Divination has more use - you're trying to understand what the deity wants or expects you to do. Cult spirits are mostly available or present at the temples, so unless you can also Summon one, you're less likely to need that. But you, as initiated in the god, gain the powers over these spirits that your god has.

Dismiss Magic, Soul Sight, and Spirit Block are part of what your god can do, so as an initiate these are powers you can channel as much as finding your enemy or healing your wounds.