Bless Pregnancy stat bonuses - when do you roll for the adult stats?

[Joerg]

The description of Bless Pregnancy allows the mother to use up her (Ernalda) rune pool of up to ten points beyond the first two points to enhance certain stats, though not above species maximum. Leaving the stat modifiers of elemental runes aside, are these blessings shots in the dark? (And in extended rules where Mindlink exists, can a number of Ernalda initiates pool their rune points to ensure a perfect baby no matter how the dice may fall?)

Can a mother initiated to several cults use spell trading to transform her rune point pool from a different source to Ernalda's Bless Pregnancy?

It is safe to assign three points to any stat, as the rolled stats cannot exceed 18, and even if the child rolls for maximum adult stats throughout, none of these points would be wasted.

But then there is the question when you roll the stats for your (heroic) baby, and how does infancy modify these downward? SIZ is the obvious case, but STR, DEX, CON are different when you are a fragile rug rat in diapers, or a three year old toddler. Sure, Herakles strangled those two serpents sent by Hera - presumably to establish his herodom while also testing it. (Makes you wonder how many other bastards of Zeus were lost to snake bites or strangulation.)

When and how would you apply the results of Bless Pregnancy? Do you roll the future stats when the child is little more than a blastocyst in its mother's womb?

[Tywyll]

Honestly I don't worry about it. A strong kid destined for a 21 Strength is still not hercules strong. Their stats don't matter unless you are planning to run a kid/teen game...but I wouldn't as the system isn't built for it. A perfect child is unlikely to be a matched for a trained professional.

[HreshtIronBorne]

I can't see anything that would limit a Bless Pregnancy spells ability to be stacked other than the RP of the Ernaldan Priestess casting it, in theory +19 stats with a max Human CHA of 21 and maxed Rune Pool. We have definitely been investing treasure into blessing our children. There has been some debate about what it would cost, or if you can employ a priestess how much RP she would have left and all the other variables. +19 lets you get +3 to 5 stats and +2 to 2 others, making sure you can't go over species max even with a phenomenal Yahtzee of 6s in character creation.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

The description of Bless Pregnancy allows the mother to use up her (Ernalda) rune pool of up to ten points beyond the first two points to enhance certain stats, though not above species maximum. Leaving the stat modifiers of elemental runes aside, are these blessings shots in the dark? (And in extended rules where Mindlink exists, can a number of Ernalda initiates pool their rune points to ensure a perfect baby no matter how the dice may fall?)

I can't think of any way to exceed the caster's Ernalda rune pool. Spells traded are "a casting of a spell", you can't stack them together. You can't stack Rune Points from a different cult, if you are in Orlanth and Humakt then you can't use your Orlanth Rune Points to cast Truesword. A high priestess might be able to use the wyter's Rune Points, but if you buy into the "Rune Points are tied up while the spell still runs" deal, then that's a big risk leaving the temple or clan severely under-defended.

Why only "up to 10 points" though? If you have CHA 21 and 21 RP then you can sink 19 into characteristic boosts. If you get Charisma cast on you and blow another 20 POW on Rune Points then you could cast it with +39 characteristic points. What a way to retire, eh?

Edited May 9, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I can't think of any way to exceed the caster's Ernalda rune pool. Spells traded are "a casting of a spell", you can't stack them together.

So if I want to use Extension 3 with the 3 point Shield spell my Yelmalian traded for, I have to trade for 3 points of Shield with 3 points of Extension?

 

Another conundrum: if the mother is pregnant with twins (thanks to a Reproduce leading to this pregnancy), do the additional points affect only one child, disribtuted between the children, or are both children equally affected by the full amount of the extra points?

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

So if I want to use Extension 3 with the 3 point Shield spell my Yelmalian traded for, I have to trade for 3 points of Shield with 3 points of Extension?

Correct, that's how I read the spell. It's a casting of a spell, not the ability to cast a spell. You can't trade a spell off someone and then cast it with Extension 5 and deny that Rune Point to them for a whole year.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Another conundrum: if the mother is pregnant with twins (thanks to a Reproduce leading to this pregnancy), do the additional points affect only one child, disribtuted between the children, or are both children equally affected by the full amount of the extra points?

Oh, good question. I have no idea. Maybe the firstborn gets all the stats, that's the most fun answer in my opinion.

Edited May 9, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Maybe the firstborn gets all the stats, that's the most fun answer in my opinion.

I'd say it depends on how Ernalda wishes to bless them. Does she see them as equal (twin daughters destined to bring great glory to the Earth), rivals, differing genders, etc.

If one is not blessed, it creates interesting relations between these twins. Is the unblessed one jealous/envious of the other? One heroic, one tragic/flawed? One part of the community, the other an outcast (perhaps even a trickster)? One a leader, the other a follower? 

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh, good question. I have no idea. Maybe the firstborn gets all the stats, that's the most fun answer in my opinion.

anyone see Twins?

[Shiningbrow]

7 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I can't think of any way to exceed the caster's Ernalda rune pool. Spells traded are "a casting of a spell", you can't stack them together. You can't stack Rune Points from a different cult, if you are in Orlanth and Humakt then you can't use your Orlanth Rune Points to cast Truesword. A high priestess might be able to use the wyter's Rune Points, but if you buy into the "Rune Points are tied up while the spell still runs" deal, then that's a big risk leaving the temple or clan severely under-defended.

Why only "up to 10 points" though? If you have CHA 21 and 21 RP then you can sink 19 into characteristic boosts. If you get Charisma cast on you and blow another 20 POW on Rune Points then you could cast it with +39 characteristic points. What a way to retire, eh?

Or... Matrix Creation, which won't have a CHA limit, and you can just get the whole clan to drop in a point of POW. So, you can retire with an everlasting, ever-replenishing matrix than the clan can call upon every year (one child - unless the Blessing can be divided). According to p 406, that would be 20L per Rune Point...

Such Matrices can be added to over time, so it'd be in the clan's best interests to have this happen (in secret, obviously!).

 

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Another conundrum: if the mother is pregnant with twins (thanks to a Reproduce leading to this pregnancy), do the additional points affect only one child, disribtuted between the children, or are both children equally affected by the full amount of the extra points?

I read the descriptions as the caster gets to decide... "of the caster's choosing". So, X number of Rune Points/Characteristics, whoever/wherever you want them.

[PhilHibbs]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Or... Matrix Creation, which won't have a CHA limit, and you can just get the whole clan to drop in a point of POW. So, you can retire with an everlasting, ever-replenishing matrix than the clan can call upon every year (one child - unless the Blessing can be divided). According to p 406, that would be 20L per Rune Point...

I'm not entirely convinced that you can make a matrix for a spell that the creator cannot cast. "An enchanter cannot make a matrix for a spell they do not have access to". It's a little unclear, but I'd say if you can't cast Bless Pregnancy 40, you can't make a matrix for it.

Edited May 10, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Crel]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm not entirely convinced that you can make a matrix for a spell that the creator cannot cast. "An enchanter cannot make a matrix for a spell they do not have access to". It's a little unclear, but I'd say if you can't cast Bless Pregnancy 40, you can't make a matrix for it.

However, would a priestess of Ernalda with 20 CHA and 20 RP be able to sac 1 POW (going back down to 18) and then get a bunch of clan lay members to sac 1POW each to build a Bless Pregnancy 20 matrix? I feel like you could build a matrix like that every couple years, at least.

Further, can you stack castings of Bless Pregnancy? Say, my aunt over in Rocktown cast 2 points on mom, my grandma cast 7 (she wanted her first grandbaby to be worth her time), and mom cast only 3 cuz she spent the first 2 on Reproduce to make sure dad knocked her up, for a total of +12 to stats (though who knows where grandma and auntie wanted the characteristics to go...).

[PhilHibbs]

1 minute ago, Crel said:

However, would a priestess of Ernalda with 20 CHA and 20 RP be able to sac 1 POW (going back down to 18) and then get a bunch of clan lay members to sac 1POW each to build a Bless Pregnancy 20 matrix? I feel like you could build a matrix like that every couple years, at least.

Oh yes, that's possible. The thing is that there are so many other spells that are worth making community matrixes, and Bless Pregnancy ties up those points of POW for the entire duration of the pregnancy. You could have Shield 15 for a year for the same price.

1 minute ago, Crel said:

Further, can you stack castings of Bless Pregnancy? Say, my aunt over in Rocktown cast 2 points on mom, my grandma cast 7 (she wanted her first grandbaby to be worth her time), and mom cast only 3 cuz she spent the first 2 on Reproduce to make sure dad knocked her up, for a total of +12 to stats (though who knows where grandma and auntie wanted the characteristics to go...).

The spell explicitly says that only one Bless Pregnancy can be cast on a pregnant mother.

[Crel]

12 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh yes, that's possible. The thing is that there are so many other spells that are worth making community matrixes, and Bless Pregnancy ties up those points of POW for the entire duration of the pregnancy. You could have Shield 15 for a year for the same price.

Not certain a year-long Shield 15 is more worth the community's POW, but I agree with your basic point. Restore Health, Cure Disease, Bless Crops, etc. But it feels reasonable to me that an established, old clan like the Ernaldori probably has three to five Bless Pregnancy 4 matrices laying around, if not more. And an established, old clan seems likely, to me, to be looking forward to the future in that way, ensuring your clan's children are smarter, more charming, and more beloved by the gods than your rival clan's.

[Joerg]

Ok, we have ways to maximize Bless Pregnancy. But the initial question still remains: when do you roll the stats for the baby? How do you know which stats to enhance if you have a limited pool of rune points? And what stats do the children have in their infancy and youth?

Also looking out for magical children like Salinarg's who formed the Household of Death.

Has anybody considered an ill-intentioned use of "Bless Pregnancy" with just the minimal blessing on a pregnant political rival aiming for giving birth to the next great queen?

[PhilHibbs]

12 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Has anybody considered an ill-intentioned use of "Bless Pregnancy" with just the minimal blessing on a pregnant political rival aiming for giving birth to the next great queen?

I think a more powerful blessing would overwrite the lesser.

[Crel]

39 minutes ago, Joerg said:

when do you roll the stats for the baby? ... And what stats do the children have in their infancy and youth?

Personally, I'm not convinced this will come up often enough in a game to matter. If I reach the point where my players actually want to have a kid, pay/win favor to get a Bless Pregnancy, and possibly play as that child in the distant future, I'll have them mark what they Blessed on some paper and move on with our lives. 16 years of game play is a long time; get through that, then think about it.

I don't think child characteristics are relevant, honestly. GM may as well just hand-wave it. I assume it'd be either some gradiated nonsense where you gain points until adulthood, or that a STR 3 adult is still stronger than a STR 3 child and you just roll at birth.

43 minutes ago, Joerg said:

How do you know which stats to enhance if you have a limited pool of rune points?

Always INT. INT adds a bonus to nearly all skill categories if you've got 17+. Getting +4 INT from Bless Pregnancy means your average 2D6+6 roll will get you tons of skill bonuses. Even if you've just got a point or two, it's worth adding there. Further, INT isn't a raiseable characteristic so it's not like you can improve this area.

[Shiningbrow]

48 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Ok, we have ways to maximize Bless Pregnancy. But the initial question still remains: when do you roll the stats for the baby? How do you know which stats to enhance if you have a limited pool of rune points? And what stats do the children have in their infancy and youth?

Also looking out for magical children like Salinarg's who formed the Household of Death.

Has anybody considered an ill-intentioned use of "Bless Pregnancy" with just the minimal blessing on a pregnant political rival aiming for giving birth to the next great queen?

The Bless Pregnancy says the stats go to the child at time of casting - caster's choice.

I'd say - those points get allocated then, and the random rolls at birth (well, technically... but really at adulthood... a 2 year old child better not have STR or SIZ 16 :p)

 

ETA: Stats for kids? Maybe - final (rolled) stat divide by age until adulthood? The stat is rolled at birth (or before - who's counting?), and then adjusted by the age as I mentioned???

Edited May 10, 2019 by Shiningbrow
Crel beat me...

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'd say - those points get allocated then, and the random rolls at birth (well, technically... but really at adulthood... a 2 year old child better not have STR or SIZ 16 :p)

I think that would be hilarious.

You cast Bless Pregnancy and add +18 to STR. You want to guarantee that 21 STR so even if the kid rolls a 3, it's got 21 STR.

So when a baby is born, it has some fraction of the adulthood STR. If a baby is born with a natural STR of 18, it's going to be pretty strong for a baby, but still, just a baby.

But THIS baby has +18 STR, so its normal "baby strength" of 2, when most babies have a STR of 1, is now 20. Sure, its STR will be capped at species maximum by the time it's 3 years old, and will never get any higher, but how hilarious would that be!

As to SIZ? Not a problem. If rune magic can regrow limbs or double your strength, then getting a super-size baby out of a mummy's tummy is pretty basic stuff.

Edited May 10, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Sumath]

Hilarious, but also fits well with mythology. Taliesin was gifted with omniscience and sentience from birth. Cu Chulainn was a boy (Setanta) who had immense strength and skill from an early age, and defeated armies without making it to adulthood.

[Sumath]

Come to think of it, Taliesin means 'shining brow'...

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Sumath said:

Come to think of it, Taliesin means 'shining brow'...

Ummmm  - you got me ☺️

[Shiningbrow]

3 hours ago, Sumath said:

Hilarious, but also fits well with mythology. Taliesin was gifted with omniscience and sentience from birth. Cu Chulainn was a boy (Setanta) who had immense strength and skill from an early age, and defeated armies without making it to adulthood.

I wouldn't call it "omniscience"... it wasn't on all the time, and it was limited. Somewhat similar to Bran Stark at the moment.

[Sumath]

In practice, you're right, it wasn't omniscience. But it came from Ceridwen's cauldron and IIRC when he sucked his thumb he knew everything there was to know (or something like that - it's been a long time since I read it).

[Shiningbrow]

21 hours ago, Sumath said:

In practice, you're right, it wasn't omniscience. But it came from Ceridwen's cauldron and IIRC when he sucked his thumb he knew everything there was to know (or something like that - it's been a long time since I read it).

Gwion Bach was ordered to stir the pot of ultimate knowledge, brought about by the Salmon of Knowledge* that swam in the pond/lake/stream and ate the acorns from the Tree of Life/World Tree, etc. The pot must never boil over, as only the first 3 drops of the potion would give the knowledge, the rest would be poison. At the fatefilled moment, he fell asleep, the pot boiled, and 3 drops hit his thumb... which he quickly put into his mouth to suck...

The first bit of awesome knowledge was that he was going to be in deep shit with Ceridwen, and so ran... then begins the chase HeroQuest, where he's finally born as Taliesin

 

(because Affagdu (sp?) - "Utter Dark" - was ugly, and stupid, and rolled really bad stats at birth... oddly enough, his mother knew an alchemy potion of 15 Point Increase INT. (strange how she didn't have anything for increasing CHA!)

Edited May 11, 2019 by Shiningbrow