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Summons of Evil Questions


JavaApp

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I have a few short questions for the gurus out there, all regarding the Summons of Evil spell (RQG 345).
 
The compulsion to come to the site of the ritual only lasts as long as the effigy remains, but the effigy will actively combat the participants once summoned. It has hit points and a STR score, equal to its POW. This is specified in the spell, and clear.
 
So does it 'animate' the effigy? Why else would it have hit points and STR?
 
If it attacks the adventurers, does it engage in spirit combat?
 
I assume it cast spells during combat if it has them and it is appropriate.
 
When the spirit dies, does the compulsion of the actual material foe to come to the site of the ceremony fade? Or does the ritual continue for the rest of the pre-determined time period, as well as the compulsion?

"It is not reasonable to assume Aristotle knew the Number of the Elect..." - Albertus Magnus

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44 minutes ago, JavaApp said:
So does it 'animate' the effigy? Why else would it have hit points and STR?
 
If it attacks the adventurers, does it engage in spirit combat?
 
I assume it cast spells during combat if it has them and it is appropriate.
 
When the spirit dies, does the compulsion of the actual material foe to come to the site of the ceremony fade? Or does the ritual continue for the rest of the pre-determined time period, as well as the compulsion?

I would say that the spirit does animate the effigy - flailing at its attackers if affixed to the ritual ground.

As the spirit is trapped inside the effigy, I don't think it is discorporate. Hence, it shouldn't be able to engage in Spirit Combat.

Spells would be cast.

I don't think that the spirit dies upon destruction of the effigy's hit points, but it is banished again.

Edited by Joerg

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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Summons of Evil is an interesting spell.

On the one hand, it is an abstract spell that summons "Evil" to an effigy, that effigy comes to life and fights, but is easily destroyed.

On the other hand, it can summon an enemy to the clan to physically fight.

So, if the effigy comes to life and fights, a spirit or other entity has temporarily possessed it. I play that the effigy can fight as if it was the summoned evil. So, the effigy becomes a broo, ogre, dragon or whatever. It has those abilities. In an old campaign, my Players used Summons of Evil and Granny Keeneye appeared and scared the bejeesuz out of them.

If the spell summons an enemy, you might find that the clan is attacked by broos, ogres, Lunars or an opposing Orlanthi clan. This is a physical attack on the clan rather than a symbolic attack on the casters of the spell.

There is also the possibility of a HeroQuestor latching onto the spell and appearing from nowhere, as in the Granny Keeneye case above.

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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17 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm not seeing a great point to this spell.

The cost/benefit ratio just isn't that great...

It helps manifesting an enemy that is hard to pin down or manifest, at a time of your choosing, so that you are as prepared as you can likely be. Plus it offers you a certain magical bonus when dealing with that threat.

Which myth does have this? Right now, the best fit I can think of is The Making of the Storm Tribe with that "serendipitious" arrival of the Darkness foes of the assembled clans.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

It helps manifesting an enemy that is hard to pin down or manifest, at a time of your choosing, so that you are as prepared as you can likely be. Plus it offers you a certain magical bonus when dealing with that threat.

Which myth does have this? Right now, the best fit I can think of is The Making of the Storm Tribe with that "serendipitious" arrival of the Darkness foes of the assembled clans.

The bonus is for the duration of the ceremony only.

And, it will summon a random representative of the enemy (if it's generic). So, while I can appreciate it for an individual, anything other than that is really asking for trouble (unless, I suppose, you happen to know there's a small band of X in the vicinity you want/need to pull out of hiding or something).

The "at a time of your choosing" is great - if you're ready for almost anything. As said in the description and by @soltakss above, if there's a Heroquester in the region (or a large raiding party you didn't know about), you could be in for a world of pain.

The benefit of the +50% Worship roll.... ummm, how about just throw another 5 MPs into the ritual?

 

So, other than trying to take out a particular individual, I still don't see a great benefit... (as I sit here on blue planet, and not on green lozenge)

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Just now, Shiningbrow said:

The bonus is for the duration of the ceremony only.

Not how I read it. The bonus is for as long as the ceremony did until the effigy finally was destroyed, after the destruction of the effigy. So if you hold off the effigy for a week, your benefit will last a week.

 

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

And, it will summon a random representative of the enemy (if it's generic).

Unless you have a very special enemy associated with the enemy, who is practically guaranteed to ride along.

 

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

So, while I can appreciate it for an individual, anything other than that is really asking for trouble (unless, I suppose, you happen to know there's a small band of X in the vicinity you want/need to pull out of hiding or something).

The "at a time of your choosing" is great - if you're ready for almost anything. As said in the description and by @soltakss above, if there's a Heroquester in the region (or a large raiding party you didn't know about), you could be in for a world of pain.

That goes with the rite. On the other hand, if you don't know where that large raiding party is going to strike, this is how to catch them as soon as you learn about that. Especially if those raiders are your ancient feud neighbors intent on burning a couple of steads with the inhabitants inside.

 

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

The benefit of the +50% Worship roll.... ummm, how about just throw another 5 MPs into the ritual?

Irrelevant, I agree, unless specials or crits matter.

 

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

So, other than trying to take out a particular individual, I still don't see a great benefit... (as I sit here on blue planet, and not on green lozenge)

You know the Varmandi are going to raid you sooner or later as you have denied their "polite request" for tribute in the most clear way possible, but these scum are crafty and sneaky, and you never know where they will strike. Well, now you do.

Your rite will be the bait in the trap, so don't expect to get off lightly, but properly orchestrated, it could blunt their tribute-taking for years to come.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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4 minutes ago, Joerg said:

You know the Varmandi are going to raid you sooner or later as you have denied their "polite request" for tribute in the most clear way possible, but these scum are crafty and sneaky, and you never know where they will strike. Well, now you do.

Your rite will be the bait in the trap, so don't expect to get off lightly, but properly orchestrated, it could blunt their tribute-taking for years to come.

Ok, that works for me....

Although, it's a bit specific for a Rune Spell... (and, would Orlanth let you do that? Varmandis are Orlanthi too - yes? Or am I confusing them with a different tribe???)

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3 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Although, it's a bit specific for a Rune Spell... (and, would Orlanth let you do that? Varmandis are Orlanthi too - yes? Or am I confusing them with a different tribe???)

You name the evil and work it into the effigy. Another clan (even though it may be part of your own tribe) eternally shaking you down for the products of your honest work when they never have done anything like honest work in the last few generations surely counts as an evil, doesn't it?

Orlanthi will fight other Orlanthi. The Lawstaff myth is about one way out of this, but Violence Is Always An Option. And especially towards a clan that traditionally hasn't given a damn for Always Another Way approaches.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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1 hour ago, Joerg said:

You name the evil and work it into the effigy. Another clan (even though it may be part of your own tribe) eternally shaking you down for the products of your honest work when they never have done anything like honest work in the last few generations surely counts as an evil, doesn't it?

Orlanthi will fight other Orlanthi. The Lawstaff myth is about one way out of this, but Violence Is Always An Option. And especially towards a clan that traditionally hasn't given a damn for Always Another Way approaches.

I was thinking DI... can't be used against worshippers of the same deity... and, thus, thought the same might apply here.

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5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm not seeing a great point to this spell.

It lances the boil.

So, if you have been suffering loads of minor attacks, you can use Summons of Evil and bring the Chaos Enemy to you all in one go. It can be used to nip the Chaos in the bud before it becomes too powerful.

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

The cost/benefit ratio just isn't that great...

Who cares about Cost/Benefit ratios?

I have never said "Oh, that spell costs too much, so I won't take it.". I have said "Oh, that is costly, I won;t take it as I won't need it", which is slightly different.

As I am fond of saying as a GM, "No problem, Sir, I understand that Cockatrice Venom Antidote is too expensive for you. Shall I pick up your Statue when I next visit the Gardens of Stone?"

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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17 hours ago, soltakss said:

It lances the boil.

So, if you have been suffering loads of minor attacks, you can use Summons of Evil and bring the Chaos Enemy to you all in one go. It can be used to nip the Chaos in the bud before it becomes too powerful.

Yeah, I get it now....

Are they supposed to take the fastest and most direct route? Or, can they scout around, check for terrain, advantage, etc?

 

17 hours ago, soltakss said:

Who cares about Cost/Benefit ratios?

I have never said "Oh, that spell costs too much, so I won't take it.". I have said "Oh, that is costly, I won;t take it as I won't need it", which is slightly different.

Apologies - what I meant was "profit/loss ratio".

Sometimes, using this spell will do exactly what you want and all it all good and well (profit). Sometimes you draw in something horrific you haven't planned for, and get a total wipe! (huge loss)

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24 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Are they supposed to take the fastest and most direct route? Or, can they scout around, check for terrain, advantage, etc?

That's up to the GM, really. They are definitely drawn in, though. A brand of broos might just charge in and attack the PCs, a band of Ogre Adventurers might be a bit more cautious.

25 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Sometimes, using this spell will do exactly what you want and all it all good and well (profit). Sometimes you draw in something horrific you haven't planned for, and get a total wipe! (huge loss)

It's a risk.

One the one hand, the clan casts this every Sacred Time to draw an enemy in and it's normally a captured broo, or a ritual spirit enemy that takes the part. However, the participants know that there is a risk and that, occasionally, something else will come along. 

Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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It can also be used when heroquesting, to pick what you'll meet during your journey when several encounters are possible. The risks from the spell are no higher than the risks from heroquest anyway, so if you prepare against a specific type of foe, that's a way to ensure that's the one you'll fight.

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