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I'm playing a character whose main Rune is Man. Through a series of events too long to recount here,

he is without a cult (except lay membership with Yinkin, having failed to become an initiate as his Beast Rune is greatly lessened).

Originally born in Pavis, but forced to grow up in Sartar, he is now returning to Pavis.

The obvious route is to become a Pavis Initiate (a distinct possibility). Although there is also Daka Fal and Flesh Man.

My sense is that the Man rune, among other things, is about civilisation. That natural propensity of man to bind together

and build societies. Not only that, but an acceptance of all that society is, including it's underbelly.

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5 minutes ago, Tigerwomble said:

Are you saying that what I've described insofar as society is concerned, is best exemplified by Harmony and not Man?

I'd probably suggest both...

But, if you didn't know, Pavis is built around the Man Rune, purely for that civilisation effect.

But, successful societies live in Harmony....

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When you say it's their main Rune, do you mean it has the highest %? This would mean a low Beast Rune %, so your character would be less bestial, more refined, mannered (and perhaps fastidious or stand-offish) than most Gloranthans: "There goes fussy Ulvik, with his hair braided just so, and not a spot of mud on his kilt".

Whether they are more 'civilised' would depend on more than just their Man Rune though, as I'd say that is also about their learning, temperament and morality. The Harmony Rune would cover their gregariousness, ability to compromise, co-operate etc, which are also arguably measures of how civilised they are. Their elemental Runes will determine their temperament and behaviour which are also pertinent.

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56 minutes ago, Tigerwomble said:

My sense is that the Man rune, among other things, is about civilisation. That natural propensity of man to bind together

and build societies.

I agree with this, from what I recall written in the Core book. I feel it's important as well to remember that Man and Beast are not Powers, but Forms; I understand that to mean that they reflect the shapes beings take. But as I recall the distinction within an adventurer on the Man/Beast Rune ratings scale is broadly how sociable they are, how willing to be part of society, reflecting these civilizing tendencies.

And so I find it really interesting in sort-of hindsight that I think Daka Fal's really the only cult in the Core which utilizes the Man Rune, considering it's a shamanistic cult. Again working on inference, my take is that followers of Daka Fal tend to be less "sophisticated" than our typical theists--like the Sartarites, Tarshites, etc., who go about building these big cities and whatnot. Whereas shamanism is much more common among the Praxian nomads, I believe.

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17 minutes ago, Crel said:

I agree with this, from what I recall written in the Core book. I feel it's important as well to remember that Man and Beast are not Powers, but Forms; I understand that to mean that they reflect the shapes beings take. But as I recall the distinction within an adventurer on the Man/Beast Rune ratings scale is broadly how sociable they are, how willing to be part of society, reflecting these civilizing tendencies.

And so I find it really interesting in sort-of hindsight that I think Daka Fal's really the only cult in the Core which utilizes the Man Rune, considering it's a shamanistic cult. Again working on inference, my take is that followers of Daka Fal tend to be less "sophisticated" than our typical theists--like the Sartarites, Tarshites, etc., who go about building these big cities and whatnot. Whereas shamanism is much more common among the Praxian nomads, I believe.

Very interesting point!!!

I'd also point out (although, this is purely IMO) that it's Man (whether Plant, Dark, Earth or whichever) that takes revenge, remembers grudges, fight wars for anything other than mere survival, has a concept of 'honour' - for both good and bad. And, Man builds weapons.

I'd even suggest that Broos and similar Chaos creatures are closer to the Man Rune than they are to Beast....

Hence my suggestion of throwing Harmony in there as well.

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My other runes are pretty set at this point (being Fire and Darkness). The game is heading towards a 'Thieves World' type of game. The other character is a Lanbril worshipper. So Harmony, whilst well presented by Shiningbrow, would probably put my character at such odds with the other character (90% Disorder) as to be unplayable. It's a meta thing, I know, but we also have to play together.

I suppose why i'm asking is define any criminal tendency in light of his Man rune. If Man has a deep relationship with the notions of civilisation and crime is something that can potentially undermine social cohesion. Is it incompatible? 

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As a Form Rune, Man implies the ability for dextrous manipulation (opposable thumbs and all that), which is handy for thieving and the picking of locks. 

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The Man rune is pretty well defined in the Core rules on page 50:

Quote

To be strong with the Man Rune is to be civilized, settled, sociable, and ethical. Such adventurers are uncomfortable in the wilderness, preferring lands tamed by humanity.

To be strong with the Beast Rune is to be bestial, savage, feral, wild, and untamed. Such adventurers are uncomfortable in cultivated lands, preferring the wilderness.

likewise the Harmony rune

Quote

To be strong with the Harmony Rune is to put the welfare of one’s selfdefined community (which might be as small as a village or as large as their entire world) above one’s own. Those aligned with this Rune are helpful, careful, compromising, generous, and compassionate—they make peace, not discord.

To be strong with the Disorder Rune is to place one’s own welfare, advantage, or pleasure above all others. Such adventurers may be described as individualistic, impulsive, and contrary, or as greedy, thoughtless, and egocentric.

So both define communities. A high Man rune and a high disorder rune is someone who needs civilisation to feel comfortable and function, but with a high disorder is individualistic within it, along with the greedy and thoughtless sums up urban thieves.

With a high beast and a high disorder, you are likely to be opportunistic, rustling sheep and cows, robbing farmers and other countryside resources.

With a high beast and a high harmony, might manifest as being a protector of the herd, Like a storm bull gang.

Edited by David Scott
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So throwing in a little more disorder (to sit alongside the Man rune) seems to be the correct chemistry. Thanks.

I know YGMV. But it's still nice to be guided by the confines as detailed in the game.

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Man Rune represents civilization, man over nature, enjoyment of the things made by man. You can be a very disorderly civilised person and a very harmonious person who prefers the wilds.

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Indeed. It's nice to mix and match the runes in this way to shape the character.

It's almost like an advanced form of D&D alignments (did I say that out loud).

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Lanbril in particular has a deep relationship to Man Rune in terms of his ambition. You don't need spirits, you don't need gods. Little people can take what they need. I think this is perfect and will be very interesting.

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As an aside.

For my RQ game , I have produced a set of battlemap counters.

These are essentially small, very simple colour illustrations, 25mm x 25mm. (larger for bigger creatures)

Print them. Mount them on card and cut them out.

I thought I might put a couple of sheets (A4 high res) up for people to use if they wish.

Where's the best place?

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

With a high beast and a high disorder, you are likely to be opportunistic, rustling sheep and cows, robbing farmers and other countryside resources.

With a high beast and a high harmony, might manifest as being a protector of the herd, Like a storm bull gang.

This looks like an edit gone wrong. Storm Bull and high harmony rune don't go together well.

 

Another option for a philosophy strong in the Man rune is Malkionism. Their way of explaining the world isn't called the humanist perspective for nothing.

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42 minutes ago, Tigerwomble said:

As an aside.

For my RQ game , I have produced a set of battlemap counters.

These are essentially small, very simple colour illustrations, 25mm x 25mm. (larger for bigger creatures)

Print them. Mount them on card and cut them out.

I thought I might put a couple of sheets (A4 high res) up for people to use if they wish.

Where's the best place?

There's a Downloads section at the top of the page, you can submit a file there.

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2 hours ago, Joerg said:

This looks like an edit gone wrong. Storm Bull and high harmony rune don't go together well.

It’s not one of their cult runes and fits in perfectly with the definition of harmony.

Quote

To be strong with the Harmony Rune is to put the welfare of one’s selfdefined community (which might be as small as a village or as large as their entire world) above one’s own. Those aligned with this Rune are helpful, careful, compromising, generous, and compassionate—they make peace, not discord.

Protecting their clan or tribe against chaos above their own needs. Often at the forefront of cooperation amongst the tribes with their intertribal society, cooperating with Sartarites in defending against chaos. Obviously harmony doesn’t apply to chaos.

I allowed a storm bull medic in one of my games. High harmony, hated chaos and what it did.

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1 hour ago, David Scott said:

It’s not one of their cult runes and fits in perfectly with the definition of harmony.

I have never seen the Storm Bull presented as a carrier of Harmony.

Show me a Berserker embodying Harmony... Show me how mindless rage fits in with Harmony.

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

Protecting their clan or tribe against chaos above their own needs. Often at the forefront of cooperation amongst the tribes with their intertribal society, cooperating with Sartarites in defending against chaos. Obviously harmony doesn’t apply to chaos.

I allowed a storm bull medic in one of my games. High harmony, hated chaos and what it did.

YGWV. That character would probably be one of the Storm Bull priests under RQ2 rules...

Storm Bull bands are a disorderly bunch. When they don't have Chaos to fight, they are little better than Gagarthi.

To quote from the Urox description in Storm Tribe (p.156):

Quote

Socially, Uroxi berserks are unacceptable. They characteristically act with total disregard for any tribal taboos or manners, and they are frightful enough that they can sometimes avoid punishment even for murder. Normal people consider all Uroxi to be mindless brutes: deranged and dangerous, barely human. These opinions are correct,

All descriptions of Storm Bull cultists have been consistent with this description. (Including my own description of Hrut the Thirsty, an NPC description I coughed up in a discussion in 1994, with the expressed goal of breaking Gloranthan stereotypes.)

Storm Bull holy bands near Devil's Marsh tend to be of as mixed origin as Gagarthi bands - e.g. Barzaad's band that got hired by Biturian. Such bands would hardly be sticking to tribal herds. Their best real world equivalent are violent biker gangs. There is one mention of a tribal group of Storm Bull Berserkers in Cults of Prax - a High Priest of the Impala tribe.

Chalana Arroy's harmony is the weakness of the Berserker.

Hate and Harmony don't combine well. I see how the Storm Bull medic would require a decent stat in harmony in order to cast these common rune spells with a decent chance, but that's a rules artifact based on the unholy mix of character traits that add up to 100% and magical aptitude that so buggers the cults based on Power Runes vs. those based on Element Runes. But then, at least in my Glorantha Storm Bull bands would mainly have first aid, and buy, hire or marry a healer to tag along. Not necessarily a Chalana Arroy healer, mind you, Eiritha is a lot more fun to have around.

(Rand about how the opposed runes rules is unfortunate and how it contributed to my dislike of playing Pendragon deleted...)

Storm Bull warriors would be diagnosed with PTSD from their exposure to Chaos. It makes them sociopaths, really.

 

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Cults that might fit the Man Rune: Daka Fal, Pavis, Orlanthi with the Man rune would emphasize his manly and husbandly role, Argan Argar (especially with Harmony, Darkness and even Fire), Yelm, Lodril, Issaries, Chalana Arroy, Lanbril (con man stuff), and various aspects of Ernalda.

Kyger Litor and Waha both definitely have the Man Rune. 

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10 hours ago, Joerg said:

I have never seen the Storm Bull presented as a carrier of Harmony.

Show me a Berserker embodying Harmony... Show me how mindless rage fits in with Harmony.

And Dorastor has Broos and other Chaos creatures that are civilised, polite, and even act as healers...

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Just pointing out... Create (Great) Market only uses the Harmony Rune - no Man involved.

Oddly enough, Charisma (from Ernalda) uses Beast, and not Man (along with Illusion and Fertility!)

I imagine the Peace Rune spell also uses Harmony, and not Man.

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19 hours ago, Jeff said:

Man Rune represents civilization, man over nature, enjoyment of the things made by man. You can be a very disorderly civilised person and a very harmonious person who prefers the wilds.

This is interesting and is a disconnect that is happening in my game. The assistant shaman has a strong rating in the Man rune (for maximum spell efficiency, if nothing else!). So he should be civilized, should like what is made by man (warm baths?) etc. but this seems to be contrary to what you expect a shaman to be. 

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2 minutes ago, Alexandre said:

This is interesting and is a disconnect that is happening in my game. The assistant shaman has a strong rating in the Man rune (for maximum spell efficiency, if nothing else!). So he should be civilized, should like what is made by man (warm baths?) etc. but this seems to be contrary to what you expect a shaman to be. 

Look to Korean shamanism for some ideas. Everything has spirits. Your assistant shaman is more strongly connected to ancestors, the spirits of human communities, the spirits that watch over tribe and community, etc., while the spirits of the "wild" are more hostile.

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