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Sumath

Why is there no Free Will Rune?

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If magic arises from the tension between Immortal Destiny on the God plane and Mortal Free Will in the Middle World, why is there no Rune for Free Will?

There's a Rune for Life, Death and Fate after all.

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4 minutes ago, Grievous said:

That does make sense.

Well, yes, but does it not imply that everyone (with Free Will) is touched by Chaos?

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3 hours ago, JonL said:

I believe that's part of Movement.

That would explain alot.

 

e: I mean Orlanth's rebellion against Yelm and the Red Goddess, and Sartarites rebellion against the Pharaoh and the Lunar Empire.

Edited by Brootse

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29 minutes ago, Brootse said:

That would explain alot.

 

e: I mean Orlanth's rebellion against Yelm and the Red Goddess, and Sartarites rebellion against the Pharaoh and the Lunar Empire.

Jar-Eel muses upon this as the carves up Belintar in Prince of Sartar, though doesn't think the potential consequences of her action through.

Edited by JonL
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What is Free Will?

Umath would say that it is Rebellion and tied to the Storm Rune, for he used Free Will to break Yelm's chains.

Mostal would say that it is Rebellion and would be tied to the Chaos rune, for Rebellion breaks the World Machine.

Yelm would say that it is Illusion, for anyone using Free Will is fooling themselves.

Mastakos would say that it is the ability to change things and is tied to the Movement Rune.

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3 hours ago, JonL said:

I believe that's part of Movement.

Then Movement would sit in opposition to Fate as well as Stasis, surely? 

I know that Movement represents change and evolution as much as it does spatial progression, but you can still have evolution and change predicted by a prophecy. So, is Movement enough to embody free will?

Various gods possess the Movement Rune, but they're still stuck within the confines of Destiny. Surely, free will should be something that the gods can no longer own?

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2 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

Wouldn't the existence of a codified Rune deny Free Will itself?

I don't think so, but I think it would be something that the gods were no longer able to possess or be tied to.

If Chaos can have a Rune then anything can.

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5 minutes ago, Sumath said:

Then Movement would sit in opposition to Fate as well as Stasis, surely? 

Fate is a Condition rune, not a Power rune. It's not in opposition to anything. 

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6 minutes ago, soltakss said:

What is Free Will?

Umath would say that it is Rebellion and tied to the Storm Rune, for he used Free Will to break Yelm's chains.

Mostal would say that it is Rebellion and would be tied to the Chaos rune, for Rebellion breaks the World Machine.

Yelm would say that it is Illusion, for anyone using Free Will is fooling themselves.

Mastakos would say that it is the ability to change things and is tied to the Movement Rune.

Maybe there's an aspect of all of those things in free will, but it's certainly not any one of them. 

And if it's something that differentiates gods from mortals (as well as life and death), and enables magic to exist, then I don't understand why it shouldn't have a Rune.

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18 minutes ago, soltakss said:

What is Free Will?

Umath would say that it is Rebellion and tied to the Storm Rune, for he used Free Will to break Yelm's chains.

Mostal would say that it is Rebellion and would be tied to the Chaos rune, for Rebellion breaks the World Machine.

Yelm would say that it is Illusion, for anyone using Free Will is fooling themselves.

Mastakos would say that it is the ability to change things and is tied to the Movement Rune.

And this is why it could in fact be Chaos - because even if it makes sense and gives meaning to you [and your culture], it actually doesn't make sense and actually erodes meaning in other cultures.

Also, thinking about Movement =/= Stasis: I think both can be expressions of free will.

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1 minute ago, JonL said:

Fate is a Condition rune, not a Power rune. It's not in opposition to anything. 

The reason I'm asking this is because of the Statement of Magic (by Hepherones, I think) in the Glorantha Sourcebook, which describes the source of magic as being from the 'friction' between the world of the gods, which is defined by fate and immortality, and the world of men, which is defined by free will and mortality. 

I'm trying to understand how the source of magic in Glorantha can be missing a major piece of its own puzzle. We have Runes for Fate, Life and Death. So why not Free Will? Why is that essential component of the Middle World not represented amongst the Runes?

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43 minutes ago, Sumath said:

I'm trying to understand how the source of magic in Glorantha can be missing a major piece of its own puzzle. We have Runes for Fate, Life and Death. So why not Free Will? Why is that essential component of the Middle World not represented amongst the Runes?

I think it is, with Movement. That's from whence the "No one can make you do anything." axiom arises.

You could also make a case for Power, given the way Pamalt defied the doom of the world, the Doraddi have a society without heirarchy and empires, and the opposition to Ompalm.

It could also be absent from the runes because they are such co-beings to the gods themselves. The gods are timeless and gave up their volition as part of the Compromise. People within Time are not so constrained. Note that Time has no rune either, not even on the  big ol HQ1-era list. 

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I think that free will is not a Rune, because it was not needed for the creation of Glorantha.  In my opinion Freee Will arose as a consequence of the Compromise and the integration of Entropy (Chaos) as Time into the fabric of the Cosmos. 

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Free Will is a concept for heroquesting. It is the power to make lasting additions to the Other Side, to establish a path or even a domain. The Great Compromise took this power from the Gods and put it to use to maintain what the Gods War and Greater Darkness left of Glorantha, which is why Orlanth cannot go and conquer some other power from some enemy or rival god any more.

All the magical energy that comes from the gods is bound to their Godtime activities. The magic that is generated by the beings in the Middle World on the other hand is pluripotent - the magical activities of the people determine how this magic manifests.

People do put a lot of magic into the cults. They do so to maintain the fragile existence of the world, and themselves in the world.

8 hours ago, Sumath said:

If magic arises from the tension between Immortal Destiny on the God plane and Mortal Free Will in the Middle World, why is there no Rune for Free Will?

There's a Rune for Life, Death and Fate after all.

There is no core rune that represents the concept of Free Will. But then there are other concepts which don't have a single rune, or which have multiple runes to describe them.

I don't really see the need to have a specific rune for this. Why do you think that is necessary?

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One of the things about becoming a Hero or a Deity is that you basically lose your Free Will, as you become more and more tied into the Compromise.

If we had a Free Will rune then Deities would lose it as they became more powerful, which is an odd idea.

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7 hours ago, JonL said:

Jar-Eel muses upon this as the carves up Belintar in Prince of Sartar, though doesn't think the potential consequences of her action through.

Hah, that's what I was thinking about.

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About a third of the runes can or would be defined as the free will rune, and the people of glorantha can and have chosen to war over which one it is.

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Isn´t Free Will the ability to see BOTH sides on an argument and make your own choice which is correct for yourself?
That would be tied to the Moon Rune IMHO. 

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Historically within Glorantha & RuneQuest, Will has been something that the Gods don’t have and the denizens of Glorantha do. No rune has ever been needed to define this. As an individual nears godhead, they have less and less free will and have to act in accordance with their role in the cosmos. The Great Compromise was the final line in the sand defining that. HeroQuest rulesets from Sandy Petersen, Steve Marsh and Steve Maurer to name but a few, all used will to power actions on HeroQuests. If you search the web, you can find the info on these. This however is not be the current mechanical thinking as POW can be used without introducing a value for will. 

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