Why is there no Free Will Rune?

[Sumath]

Thanks for the answers everyone. The consensus appears to be that free will can be expressed through aspects of various Runes, or that it is better described as the absence of the (Runic) constraints placed upon gods.

18 hours ago, JonL said:

I think it is, with Movement. That's from whence the "No one can make you do anything." axiom arises.

I'd actually say that that axiom arises out of the tension between Movement & Stasis. 

And perhaps that's where free will arises from generally - somewhere within the tension between opposing Power or conflicting Element Runes.

I suppose if I'd just looked at the character generation system in RQG the answer was staring me in the face... 😀

[Grievous]

7 hours ago, Sumath said:

I suppose if I'd just looked at the character generation system in RQG the answer was staring me in the face... 😀

I mean, yeah, now that you put it that way, this.

[Julian Lord]

I don't think, in Glorantha, that Free Will is something that mortals alone have, but rather it's something that the gods chose to no longer use within the Compromise -- so technically they still have it too, it's just in a way "frozen".

Indeed, it was always suggested cosmologically throughout the previous iterations of the Gloranthan RPGs that one of the effects of the world getting near to a breaking point (again) is that the gods begin to regain their Free Will, as the Compromise is breaking too in those situations.

Supposedly there are the odd exceptions, such as Eurmal whoops butterfingers dropping his own strand of the Web at the Birth of Time, and so retaining his Free Will. Then there are the 7 Mothers and the (re)birth of the Red Goddess. And so on.

[Martin Dick]

I'd go with Mastery as the Free Will Rune

[Akhôrahil]

On 6/14/2019 at 1:16 PM, JonL said:

I believe that's part of Movement.

I think it's inherent in the Man rune, personally. Dwarves can exercise free will (IMO), they just choose not to. Movement/Stasis isn't so much about free will as it is about level of conformity.

Also, this is the downside of theistic magic (if indeed you think it's a downside) - the closer you are to your god and the stronger in the runes, the more your actions get circumscribed. Didn't HW have some level of divine commitment above Devotee ('Disciple', or something?) that basically made the character unplayable?

(RQ now emulates this by having high Rune ratings circumscribe your actions.)

EDIT: ...and now I see in RQ:G that Mostali don't count for the Man rune, so apparently what I wrote about them above was bullcrap. Oh well! Does it mean that broken dwarves acquire the Man rune, though? This would make sense as it both provides them with free will and takes away their immortality. It also raises the question about Brithini and Vadeli and the Man rune ("This Rune governs all mortal humanoids", p. 383).

Edited June 25, 2019 by Akhôrahil

[Sumath]

34 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

the closer you are to your god and the stronger in the runes, the more your actions get circumscribed

This is precisely why I said that free will lies in the tension between opposing Runes. Go too far one way or another and you are in danger of becoming zealous and predictable.

Remember that the Man Rune also sits in opposition to the Beast Rune. If you have too high an affinity with the Man Rune you might become fastidious, elitist, and inflexible with regards to how you view the uncivilised world and its denizens. 

Power Runes (and those two Form Runes) start at 50/50 in character generation, which seems to be a healthy balance.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Sumath

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Also, this is the downside of theistic magic (if indeed you think it's a downside) - the closer you are to your god and the stronger in the runes, the more your actions get circumscribed. Didn't HW have some level of divine commitment above Devotee ('Disciple', or something?) that basically made the character unplayable?

That leads me  to some interesting thinking , Akhôrahil.  Though the game mechanics do not reflect it, there is a penalty for using magic (as there should be): The loss of ones humanity. A min/max player would wonder, ' Where's the problem?'. But from a literary (or possibly, if one is lucky, role playing) angle, this leads to serious conflict, and interesting stories.

Have not seen this dealt with in any way Gloranthan other than the old Dragonewt magic (RQ 3).  It became harder to resurrect into higher draconic forms the more dragon magic one used. Pity it did not get taken up in this update to the rules. Maybe next time.

Cheers

[Akhôrahil]

2 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

That leads me  to some interesting thinking , Akhôrahil.  Though the game mechanics do not reflect it, there is a penalty for using magic (as there should be): The loss of ones humanity. A min/max player would wonder, ' Where's the problem?'. But from a literary (or possibly, if one is lucky, role playing) angle, this leads to serious conflict, and interesting stories.

Have not seen this dealt with in any way Gloranthan other than the old Dragonewt magic (RQ 3).  It became harder to resurrect into higher draconic forms the more dragon magic one used. Pity it did not get taken up in this update to the rules. Maybe next time.

I don't think it would be amiss to say that the more Rune Points you have with a cult, the more closely you are tied to that god's behavior and values.

Magic per se is an inherent part of Glorantha, though - using magic isn't any more dehumanizing than using technology is for us.

[Bill the barbarian]

41 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

isn't any more dehumanizing than using technology is for us.

Again, grist for a good story tellers mill.. Might I refer you to Modern Times, a  great Chaplin film from early in the last century.

One does not have to play such themes and they will not lose a whit of MGF or Gloranthan goodness, but that these themes exist and Glorantha does actually acknowledge this existence is probably Greg's input. If mechanics were put in to reflect the loss of ones uniqueness (humanity)  I suppose it would have to be optional (like ENC). 

Cheers

Edited June 25, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Jeff]

There is no Free Will Rune, as that is not something inherent in the cosmos. The gods gave up their freedom of action as part of the Great Compromise between them - the dead gods and the living gods. That enabled the great web to contain Chaos and let Arachne Solara devour the Devil and give birth to Time.

Mortals are not bound by the Great Compromise, although to wield the power of the gods they do devote themselves to their service, allowing the gods to act through mortals.

[Akhôrahil]

19 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Again, grist for a good story tellers mill.. Might I refer you to Modern Times, a  great Chaplin film from early in the last century.

Okay, isn't inherently dehumanizing. Obviously magic can be dehumanizing. Just ask the Morokanth, who literally use it for that purpose.