Bill the barbarian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said: Only Friendly? I thought they'd be Associate... I would think that Elmal being subordinate to Orlanth (he's Orlanth's servant, horseman) would, if not negate association, make if much more difficult. Edited June 23, 2019 by Bill the barbarian Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiningbrow Posted June 23, 2019 Author Share Posted June 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said: I would think that Elmal being subordinate to Orlanth (he's Orlanth's servant, horseman) would, if not negate association, make if much more difficult. Going by old source material, Mastakos was Orlanth's Charioteer - so "subordinate" to Orlanth as well... but is still Associated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said: Going by old source material, Mastakos was Orlanth's Charioteer - so "subordinate" to Orlanth as well... but is still Associated. It's a question of relations, history and politics, Mastakos is family. Though Elmal is claimed as family by marriage and is considered a loyal thane, let's face it, he is the Orlanthi pantheon's face of the tamed and beaten sun. Insult is added as he is made a loyal thane, a bit of a come down from former glory. Edited June 23, 2019 by Bill the barbarian Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said: ... what's changed since 1981? Dragonrise It is now 1625, not 1613... Sartar is no longer occupied, The Storm Bulls smell blood and are seeking it. The Lunars realize it is their blood being smelled and well, Time marches on... Edited June 23, 2019 by Bill the barbarian Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Bill the barbarian said: It's a question of relations, history and politics, Mastakos is family Well, not quite. As noted in GS p.119, Mastakos was "captured by Orlanth at Daliath’s Well of Wisdom". Mastakos was originally part of the Sea Tribe and also happens to be Magasta's charioteer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, jajagappa said: Well, not quite. As noted in GS p.119, Mastakos was "captured by Orlanth at Daliath’s Well of Wisdom". Mastakos was originally part of the Sea Tribe and also happens to be Magasta's charioteer. Well, then why poor Elmal, then... I guess it is still 2 out of 3. Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said: 5 hours ago, soltakss said: Orlanth is friendly to Elmal Only Friendly? I thought they'd be Associate... Maybe he is an Associate cult, Jeff seems to say that. It depends on whether they exchange Runespells, I suppose. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill the barbarian Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, soltakss said: Maybe he is an Associate cult, Jeff seems to say that. It depends on whether they exchange Runespells, I suppose. It just occurs to me, many of the Elmali clans, tribes, and cities seem to have been Lunar sympathizers or allies. Not that they were in reality but it seems to be common thought amongst the more traditional Heortland peoples. The Alda Churi Overtribe comes to mind (especially the treacherous Dinacoli) as the reason for distrusting Elmali. Do the pony clans of the Colymar and Runegate have such problems. (yes, no?). Quote ... remember, with a TARDIS, one is never late for breakfast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 5 hours ago, soltakss said: The way I see it is that Elmal is Yelmalio as worshipped by the Orlanthi and Yelmalio is Yelmalio as worshipped by the Solars. Orlanth is friendly to Elmal, as he was the Yelmalio who stayed behind and helped the people of Orlanth, but is neutral to Yelmalio as he was the Yelmalio who left the people of Orlanth. Actually, ANTIRIUS is Yelmalio as worshiped by the Solars. The Bright God is merely a placeholder for the absent Yelm. Yelmalio is neutral. In-between. Neither Solar nor Orlanthi. A bit of both and neither at the same time. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daskindt Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 10 hours ago, Jeff said: The old conflict between Elmal partisans and Yelmalio partisans reappears! Simple way of looking at this - the Elmal (sub)cult is associated with Orlanth, the Yelmalio cult is neutral. The gods fought in the Gods War, but also cooperated together in the Gods War. Orlanth has few non-Chaotic cults he cannot cooperate with on at least a neutral basis - he is the King of the Gods after all. He's hostile to the Seven Mothers, but not an Enemy, The Red Goddess is an Enemy as are all Chaotic cults. Yelmalio is suspicious … of himself? Quote Yelmalio is friendly towards most Fire and Sky deities, although his cult stands outside most Fire and Sky religions. However, as a result of their intertwined history, the cults of Yelmalio and Elmal are mutually suspicious of each other. Because of aid given in the Darkness, the cult likes and is liked by elves. What propaganda will the partisans promulgate next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 15 minutes ago, daskindt said: Yelmalio is suspicious … of himself? Of course! Think of all the occasions when he failed - beaten by Orlanth, ambushed by ZZ, … Lots of self-loathing there. 😉 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) On 6/22/2019 at 8:42 AM, Jeff said: And yes, it IS possible to be in both Orlanth and Yelmalio. I pity the dude who tries this and then gets the "Never speak to or help Orlanth worshipers in any way" geas. That means he can't speak to himself or help himself! (Actually, I don't pity him - serves him right!) Edited July 4, 2019 by Akhôrahil 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I wonder if it wouldn't make sense to have a "Rival" compatibility status, for cults that aren't exactly enemies or hostile, but are in competition or rivalry. Yelmalio and Orlanth would fit this perfectly. Heler and Elmal are in a friendlier competition. Just as you're expected not to be a fan of two sports teams who are archrivals, you would be expected not to try and have it both ways with rival cults. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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