Jump to content
MOB

"For a long time I have wished to do a picture of a female warrior, who actually looks like one." RUNEQUEST GLORANTHA art by Ossi Hiekkala

Recommended Posts

vinga.thumb.jpg.862b9b3cf54bcf4900c58d9e730315f8.jpg

A young Vingan runelord has stopped to ask the way from a settler of Sartarian heritage from Zola Fel valley.

 

  • Like 19
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good stuff, though this notion of how she might carry all of that extra load is extremely unrealistic and I'm afraid looks pretty ridiculous, notwithstanding the otherwise fine quality and execution of the design.

She's carrying far too much, and there is NO WAY that a single person might even need such oddly huge cooking utensils.

AND that would just *kill* her left arm and shoulder, not to mention her back. But maybe she's packing all of the loot from her latest Quest ?

It's just silly to suppose -- traditional iconography notwithstanding -- that one would carry more than can be inside or else hang onto one's pack (and where's her sleeping roll ?) ; and also quite bizarre that anyone would fail to use his or her spear as a hiking staff, and so always ready in defensive stance. Even in a temporary workaround from being overloaded and needing to be for her own reasons, she'd want to keep the spearhead down not up, to hasten combat readiness as she could use gravity to let the load slide off the blunt end whilst bringing the business end into better position.

Or -- does she maybe just have 35% Spear skill ?

Edited by Julian Lord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

Good stuff, though this notion of how she might carry all of that extra load is extremely unrealistic and I'm afraid looks pretty ridiculous, notwithstanding the otherwise fine quality and execution of the design.

She's carrying far too much, and there is NO WAY that a single person might even need such oddly huge cooking utensils.

AND that would just *kill* her left arm and shoulder, not to mention her back. But maybe she's packing all of the loot from her latest Quest ?

It's just silly to suppose -- traditional iconography notwithstanding -- that one would carry more than can be inside or else hang onto one's pack ; and also quite bizarre that anyone would fail to use his or her spear as a hiking staff, and so always ready in defensive stance. Even in a temporary workaround from being overloaded and needing to be for her own reasons, she'd want to keep the spearhead down not up, to hasten combat readiness as she could use gravity to let the load slide off the blunt end whilst bringing the business end into better position.

Or -- does she maybe just have 35% Spear skill ?

To me it looks like she has, a helmet, a cooking pot, a water flask, some food and a bed roll on the spear. If she fights with the spear in an overhand grip using the spear as a staff won't help. 

Edited by albinoboo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, albinoboo said:

If she fights with the spear in an overhand grip using the spear as a staff won't help. 

I've been using a staff pretty much every single day for the past 10 years or so, and what you're suggesting is simply inaccurate, sorry.

Switching stances with a spear will certainly be a bit slower than with a staff, but your basic stance would be an offhand grip at about a third of its length and main hand grip at the base -- carrying the spear as she does would be quite fine without all of that load, but in RuneQuest terms it looks like she'd need to waste two actions simply to ready herself for combat, during which time she'd basically be unable to parry.

Maybe that spear is part of that loot haul and so she's inexpert with it, and so thinks she can just dump the entire load and seize her axe instead ... but that still doesn't justify not using the spear as a hiking staff, particularly as that huge load would still be easier to carry on her back instead of so awkwardly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Julian Lord said:

I've been using a staff pretty much every single day for the past 10 years or so, and what you're suggesting is simply inaccurate, sorry.

Switching stances with a spear will certainly be a bit slower than with a staff, but your basic stance would be an offhand grip at about a third of its length and main hand grip at the base -- carrying the spear as she does would be quite fine without all of that load, but in RuneQuest terms it looks like she'd need to waste two actions simply to ready herself for combat, during which time she'd basically be unable to parry.

Maybe that spear is part of that loot haul and so she's inexpert with it, and so thinks she can just dump the entire load and seize her axe instead ... but that still doesn't justify not using the spear as a hiking staff, particularly as that huge load would still be easier to carry on her back instead of so awkwardly.

 To keep the grip overhanded you would be walking with the point down. You will blunt the point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

Good stuff, though this notion of how she might carry all of that extra load is extremely unrealistic and I'm afraid looks pretty ridiculous, notwithstanding the otherwise fine quality and execution of the design.

She's carrying far too much, and there is NO WAY that a single person might even need such oddly huge cooking utensils.

AND that would just *kill* her left arm and shoulder, not to mention her back. But maybe she's packing all of the loot from her latest Quest ?

It's just silly to suppose -- traditional iconography notwithstanding -- that one would carry more than can be inside or else hang onto one's pack (and where's her sleeping roll ?) ; and also quite bizarre that anyone would fail to use his or her spear as a hiking staff, and so always ready in defensive stance. Even in a temporary workaround from being overloaded and needing to be for her own reasons, she'd want to keep the spearhead down not up, to hasten combat readiness as she could use gravity to let the load slide off the blunt end whilst bringing the business end into better position.

Or -- does she maybe just have 35% Spear skill ?

What?

I'd agree her spear staff is a little slender but I don't get at all what you're talking about "too much".

1) the shaft is not on her shoulder, it's on the plate/strap which would spread the load a little.

2) what's on that shaft is helmet, pot, blanket, small waterskin, and a bag of sundries.  Maybe what, 8-10kg TOPS?  She's not wearing it on her back because her shield's there.  I admit I'm surprised she doesn't have a pack but lacking one, you make do.  I have to say more than once I've done the same thing with a stick to carry more things than I have hands for into/out of a campsite.  The weight rests mostly on the back of your shoulder, not the shaft anyway.

3) point up/point down...that's niggling pretty hard.  Generally you carry a weapon point up and away from the people you're dealing with.

 

Sounds like you're trying really hard to be hypercritical, and none of your complaints make much sense anyway.   Not sure why you'd be that way, but you be you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, albinoboo said:

 To keep the grip overhanded you would be walking with the point down. You will blunt the point. 

It's dead easy to switch stances with anything like a staff.

Besides, historically many walking staves had an iron point that you deliberately kept downwards, as some do to this very day, for the purpose of assistance on difficult terrain, and defense against dogs and hostiles -- of course nobody would do so with anything so valuable as a spear point, but on the other hand many spears had a smaller point at the other end for use during marches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UGH!!!  Stop it.  I'd give you guys barfy-faces in response, but it's not an option.

That said...

3 hours ago, styopa said:

Looks like he's got a proto-Vingan behind him too.

That's part of the beauty of this painting.  Not only does the Vingan warrior look like someone who could endure the hardships of combat (and that's a critique that can be applied to many depictions of male warriors, too), the generational connection to the game world is subtle, but powerful.

!i!

Edited by Ian Absentia
Clarity, specificity, joy
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, styopa said:

I admit I'm surprised she doesn't have a pack but lacking one, you make do.  I have to say more than once I've done the same thing with a stick to carry more things than I have hands for into/out of a campsite.

It's why the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that she's lugging a whole bunch of loot back from a Quest.

But she's clearly inexpert with 2-handed weapons.

18 minutes ago, styopa said:

point up/point down...that's niggling pretty hard.  Generally you carry a weapon point up and away from the people you're dealing with.

In Glorantha ? That sounds risky ...

18 minutes ago, styopa said:

Sounds like you're trying really hard to be hypercritical, and none of your complaints make much sense anyway.   Not sure why you'd be that way, but you be you.

No, not at all -- the illustration is quite beautiful, and I'd have had no problems publishing a B&W version in our fanzine ... but really, as a long-distance hiker and long-term daily staff-user, the character's travelling choices look rather odd ... and naturally RW people can quite often be similarly non-ideal in their choices of course LOL !!!

Edited by Julian Lord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, styopa said:

2) what's on that shaft is helmet, pot, blanket, small waterskin, and a bag of sundries.  Maybe what, 8-10kg TOPS?  She's not wearing it on her back because her shield's there.  I admit I'm surprised she doesn't have a pack but lacking one, you make do.  I have to say more than once I've done the same thing with a stick to carry more things than I have hands for into/out of a campsite.  The weight rests mostly on the back of your shoulder, not the shaft anyway.

 

What is this eight ta ten kay gees  you is refering to, ah you kids with yer new fangled ways. When I was yer age I didn't count in no Kay Gees, nope used good old Orlanthii term; things. Why that could weigh more that half a thing a piece for the blanket and the helmet, for 1, a water skin a thing adding up to two things, put another thing in fer tha sundries to make it tree and then slap in another couple of things fer tha pointy stick and yer at 5  things right there. 

Kids, bah!

Kay gees, my big fat hairy...

Alebaird you git in here this instant 'n leaf them per folk alone.

Yes, ingrid my peach dumpling, honey bunch, little duckling...

Zounds!

Edited by Bill the barbarian
  • Like 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Julian Lord said:

It's why the only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that she's lugging a whole bunch of loot back from a Quest.

Why? That's a helm, a single cooking pot, a bedroll, a waterskin, and a net with some smaller items in. Add to that a shield, an axe, and a knife. It doesn't seem excessive by any means for a travelling warrior, and if there's loot there, it's really small stuff. She can get the spear mostly free in moments, and fully free in a few seconds.

This is the "bindle" style of carrying stuff (slung on a pole carried over the shoulder). Would a modern backpack be better? Yeah, probably, but they don't sell those in Pavis, I believe.

Edited by Akhôrahil
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

Why? That's a helm, a single cooking pot, a bedroll, a waterskin, and a net with some smaller items in. Add to that a shield, and axe, and a knife. It doesn't seem excessive by any means for travelling warrior, and if there's loot there, it's really small stuff. She can get the spear mostly free in moments, and fully free in a few seconds.

Tha feller with tha handle ah cain't say got it in one go. a blokawood sheildy fer a thing er two, an aks fer anudder an a kuhnife fer hadding a thing more, linthorax cuirass fer tree more and ya now has siks an a haf, add that to the 5 an thas eleventy an a haf, an she look like she got strong enuf fer 15 things at  about...

Alebaird!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Akhôrahil said:

Why? That's a helm, a single cooking pot, a bedroll, a waterskin, and a net with some smaller items in. Add to that a shield, and axe, and a knife. It doesn't seem excessive by any means for travelling warrior, and if there's loot there, it's really small stuff. She can get the spear mostly free in moments, and fully free in a few seconds.

I've no idea if you've ever done any serious long-distance hiking, but that's heavy stuff, carried awkwardly, and in RQ terms constitutes encumbrance versus weight.

It's not *what* she's carrying that's the problem, it's *how*.

And no, freeing that spear would be awkward - even a staff used like that would put you at disadvantage. She'd need to dump the haft on the ground, change position, lift the weapon out of the baggage, change position again,  then swing the thing into her favoured stance.

Of course just dumping the whole lot and grabbing her axe and positioning herself to get her shield up would be easier, and so maybe that's her plan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Julian Lord said:

I've no idea if you've ever done any serious long-distance hiking, but that's heavy stuff, carried awkwardly, and in RQ terms constitutes encumbrance versus weight.

It's not *what* she's carrying that's the problem, it's *how*.

And no, freeing that spear would be awkward - even a staff used like that would put you at disadvantage. She'd need to dump the haft on the ground, change position, lift the weapon out of the baggage, change position again,  then swing the thing into her favoured stance.

Of course just dumping the whole lot and grabbing her axe and positioning herself to get her shield up would be easier, and so maybe that's her plan.

She might be lacking a proper sack and is making do. She might be in a fairly calm part of the area, maybe she is vouched for by the local authority and therefore sees her situation as fairly safe.

One can make complaints about her placing her cooking pot (which I'm not sure why you consider weirdly big, but the perspective makes it hard to judge its depth) and helmet - her two heaviest objects - the furthest out, thus making the weight the greatest, but hey, there ya go.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

her cooking pot (which I'm not sure why you consider weirdly big, but the perspective makes it hard to judge its depth)

One-person cooking pots are really small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously, the pot and helm are on the end of things so she can quickly fling them in the face (or dump them on the toes) on an attacker!  🤗

Notice the fresh scars on her limbs and how muscular and, um, chunky she looks.  No skinny Wonder Woman or lithe Xena here.  Make sure you SMILE when you greet her, stranger.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My god, Julian Lord, so much whining on some details about whether the Vingan warrior can or cannot carry that much weight on a single spear. So what!? What does it matter? Do you play the RQ game the same way you nitpick on that nicely made painting? In that case, you sir, are known as a rules lawyer and a royal pain in the a**. I would really think twice before having you in any playing group, in that case.

Lighten up! The painting gives so  much other marvelous feelings one can celebrate. And why not focus on those parts instead? I can think of at least a dozen fine things the picture conveys important and beautiful points to the viewer. And the most important part for me, is that this is a painting portraying a real woman fighter - totally free of the irritating tradition of boob plate!

//Erik.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Julian Lord said:

One-person cooking pots are really small.

I looked up some Roman examples, and you're right.

Again, it might just be that she is getting by with what she happens to have at hand. So her cooking pot is a bit big. Big whoop.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MOB said:

A young Vingan runelord has stopped to ask the way from a settler of Sartarian heritage from Zola Fel valley.

"The Duck? He went that way!"

  • Like 3
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I looked up some Roman examples, and you're right.

Again, it might just be that she is getting by with what she happens to have at hand. So her cooking pot is a bit big. Big whoop.

Or it may be her share of a bigger / shared load... Back on the road behind her, not shown, may be a whole party, one of whom is carrying a bigger share of grain than is reasonable for 1 person, etc.

All the load on her left, maybe she has a wrench or strain making her right arm non-loadbearing.

Maybe she has NO spear-skill, she's carrying the kit for a fallen comrade, returning his gear to his family.

Rather than micro-analyze for FLAWS, note any "problems" and use it as an opportunity to tell stories about why it's THIS way instead of THAT way...

Also:  I argue against this rendering the weapon unusable:  1. ground the butt, everything slides down; 2. lift the spear up to guard position.  Maybe 2ish seconds?  3 max?  With practice, I bet I could get it down to about 1 sec.

Slower that a readied weapon, I grant; but hardly an unreasonable delay for a traveling / non-adventuring config!

If you advance down every road or trail in combat-ready mode, you'll be so slow that all the action will be over before you're there.  And the Storm Bulls will tease you about being too "girly".

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...