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klecser

Practical Elder Race Play Questions

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24 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

Being in the same cult is reason enough for me.

Yelmalio elves, Orlanthi trolls, Stormbull morokanth etc.

Joined by a heroquest. Secret is not to over think it.

Yelmalio elves & Orlanthi trolls??? That's just asking for trouble!

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Just now, Shiningbrow said:

Yelmalio elves & Orlanthi trolls??? That's just asking for trouble!

Obviously not in the same party. Im just throwing out suggestions.

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A party of Orlanthi Morokanths, Ducks and Trolls is doable and they could involve a few other cults without a problem.

Ive gm'd a party of Baboons and Morokanths.

A heroquest drawing together a bunch of similar cult elder races would be fun. 

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4 hours ago, Iskallor said:

A party of Orlanthi Morokanths, Ducks and Trolls is doable and they could involve a few other cults without a problem.

Ive gm'd a party of Baboons and Morokanths.

A heroquest drawing together a bunch of similar cult elder races would be fun. 

Hmmm.

Suddenly I envision a LBQ with each role filed by a different Elder Race...

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Perhaps an adventurer party composed of Elder Races and a human could secretly be a God Plane manifestation of the I Fought We Won Battle. Maybe that's why, unbeknowst to every party member, they all get along so nicely. Even when their comrades who don't belong to the group disreard them as loonies. Maybe their secret wyter is an entity of that event before Time. That or the Green Age. Pavis himself was after some harmony-related magic like that. Perhaps that city god has secretly masterminded the group coming together...

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When I first started playing RQ our parties consisted of Dwarves, Elves, trolls and everything in between.  This can still happen easily if folk want. Who cares if someone says they cant. Glorantha can be a totally unnecessary pain in the arse sometimes.

Elves who leave their forests are probably insane, Dwarves who leave their homes outcasts and Uz probably just hungry. Sounds like a great bunch of adventurers to me, especially if it's a Baboon shaman keeping them all in line.

There's far more bizarre stuff walking their world...

 

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If you're willing to seriously shift the time period and the setting, a Unity Council mixed missionary team at Dawn could be pretty interesting, seeking out and educating the survivors from the Great Darkness.

"The Theyalans were not selfish. They had
survived through the Great Darkness, and
they realized that the world beyond them had
not done so well. They organized small bands
of missionaries, sometimes of one people and
sometimes of different races, who went to
teach their secrets of peace and cooperation
to any who would listen. They brought the
Dawn to the world."
—tGtG

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On 7/8/2019 at 2:13 PM, klecser said:

1) What angle could I take that could explain why Elder Races would associate with humans? For the Green Elf I was thinking that they could be an emissary for Green Elves trying to work with humans even if their people won't? They either wouldn't go into human towns, or is there some kind of glamour that they could cast that would allow them to do so?

Elves are generally friendly to Yelmalio, so the Elf could belong to Yelmalio, or be seeking help from a Yelmalian.

I don't think that Elves particularly don't like human towns. Sure, some people say that they don;t like stone, or straight lines or whatever, but I've never thought that. They might be unhappy bout the amount of trees used without using Food Song, though.

For me, if a Player can come up with a valid rationale, then it's fine by me. In our RQ2 campaign, we had troll, dwarf, elf, morokanth, duck, centaur and minotaur PCs, they normally banded together among storm or light lines, so the trolls adventured with storm bulls and Orlanthi and the elf adventured with light cultists.

If you want a rationale:

  • Trolls like killing chaos, elves and dwarves, if you are doing that then they'll happily join you.
  • Elves protect the forest, like killing dwarves and trolls, like Yelmalio and may be rootless adventuring elves
  • Dwarves might be from Pavis, in which case they are very special dwarves, or they might be Openhandist or have been sent on a mission
  • Ducks are just people, so they might be fleeing the Lunar Empire, fighting Undead, be simple adventurers or be bandits trying to go straight
  • Baboons are pretty much adventurers, when outside their family units, looking for fame and fortune
  • Tusk Riders are thugs, heavies, Tuskers for Hire, they could be mercenaries looking for payment, or could just be tired of the mercenary life looking for adventure
  • Wind Children are a bit difficult, they could have the same motivation as anyone else, looking for fame, fortune, adventure or revenge
  • Minotaurs are chaos-fighting thugs, always happy to fight
  • Centaurs away from their herds are just adventurers
  • Newtlings that are bachelors are sent away from the Nests to become adventurers, gain experience, skills and magic, to strengthen them when they return to the Nests to mate

 

On 7/8/2019 at 2:13 PM, klecser said:

2) The stats for armor for Elder Races are frequently very low numbers in the Bestiary. For example, a Duck has average armor values in the 2-3 range. Does this mean that Ducks CAN'T or DON'T wear the heftier armor value pieces of humans? Or is that a "commoner" value? It's going to be a hard sell for one of my players to "really want to play a Duck" and then find that Ducks have no armor and they have basically chosen a mechanically less effective character.

These are just typical values. There is no reason for them not to have better armour if they can get them. PCs generally get the best armour they can.

There may be reasons for having light armour. Ducks swim well, so they might have light armour as plate isn't designed for swimming. Were-Creatures might have to change shape, so light armour is better for doing that. Wind children need to fly, so might not have armour on their wings.

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In what ways would you alter the "Family History" step of character creation rules for Elder Races? Would you alter it at all?

The Family History section seems to assume that players are human?

Did Elder Races participate in conflicts like The Battle of Grizzly Peak?

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19 minutes ago, klecser said:

In what ways would you alter the "Family History" step of character creation rules for Elder Races? Would you alter it at all?

The Family History section seems to assume that players are human?

Did Elder Races participate in conflicts like The Battle of Grizzly Peak?

The majority of that family history is marginally usable for elder races, I'd say. Sure, pick and choose a parh through it, but I suspect it will leave a feeling that this elder race is more "just like a human" than I'd like. A few alternative events for different races would be nice. I'm hoping that someone will do some alternative FH sections and publish them in a fanzine.

It largely depends, also, on where you Elder Race character is from. Sazdorf trolls, Skyfall Lake trolls, Shadow Plateau trolls, these will all have different FH activities.

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43 minutes ago, klecser said:

In what ways would you alter the "Family History" step of character creation rules for Elder Races? Would you alter it at all?

You can see what I wrote up for Tusk Riders here: 

And, yes, would alter a fair bit of it. Some events (like Battle of Grizzly Peak) could certainly have mercenary units (tusk riders, trolls), but there would undoubtedly be other events specific to those Elder Races. For instance, in 1623-4, you'd have the Swarm as a significant troll event.  1624 would include the Boat Rise (aka Blue Planet) for at least the dwarfs (part of repairing the World Machine) and likely the trolls (though that could be for or against). The dwarfs might have a much longer cycle of events (given their long age) and tied into the World Machine (maybe starting with the post-God Learner repairs or the Destruction of the Clanking City, then the Rise of the Red Moon, etc).

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26 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Sazdorf trolls, Skyfall Lake trolls, Shadow Plateau trolls, these will all have different FH activities.

I'd probably construct a broad, general troll FH first, and then have some isolated "tribal" events. The history from the just re-released Uz Lore is useful for the trolls.

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3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

And, yes, would alter a fair bit of it. Some events (like Battle of Grizzly Peak) could certainly have mercenary units (tusk riders, trolls), but there would undoubtedly be other events specific to those Elder Races. For instance, in 1623-4, you'd have the Swarm as a significant troll event.  1624 would include the Boat Rise (aka Blue Planet) for at least the dwarfs (part of repairing the World Machine) and likely the trolls (though that could be for or against). The dwarfs might have a much longer cycle of events (given their long age) and tied into the World Machine (maybe starting with the post-God Learner repairs or the Destruction of the Clanking City, then the Rise of the Red Moon, etc).

Right now I have a prospective Green Elf and Duck. What might be some examples for them?

Edited by klecser
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40 minutes ago, klecser said:

Right now I have a prospective Green Elf and Duck. What might be some examples for them?

Ducks are largely the same as Orlanthi but anything after Starbrow's revolt would change. Fazzur Wideread declared a Duck hunt and all Ducks had go to into hiding untill the liberation of Sartar. 

Edited by albinoboo
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33 minutes ago, klecser said:

Right now I have a prospective Green Elf and Duck. What might be some examples for them?

The longer-lived elves have the problem that a generation covers a century of history happening rather than twenty-odd years. True, a vast number of human-only historical events don't apply to them.

Another problem might be that inter-forest cooperation may not be very common. Yes, there was the Moonburn of Rist, and the affected elves who fled to Dorastor became the Hellwood Elves, but take e.g. the neighboring Poisonthorns and what did that event mean for their ancestors?

So you would have to come up with a timeline for your elf's home forest. Where would that green elf have its roots? The Dagori Inkarth Redwood, some copse in Dragon Pass, some backwater slope of the Mislari in Arstola (which is otherwise pure brown elf), or someplace insignificant in Balazar/the Elder Wilds?

Ducks have a quite obscure history, so you would have to make up things local, or create an adventurer ancestor Forrest Gump.

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1 hour ago, klecser said:

Right now I have a prospective Green Elf and Duck. What might be some examples for them?

One of the interesting things about the familial history is the degree to which parellelisms of longer historical, legendary and/or mythic relationships play out in your recent kin's history. The basic Sartarite history works out quite well for ducks. And while the events of 1613 and after lack specific nuances relative to the Duck Hunts, you can model the basics fairly well within the standard choices (outlawed, buggered off to Pavis to become petty bandits, etc.).

The main absence is to do with their relationships to Delecti and the Upland Marsh. The best place to add that might be 1602, when Delecti helped out the Lunar conquest of Sartar with an army of his undead. Many ducks were turned into zombies in that war and it's an excellent place to add some passions and the like.

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1 hour ago, klecser said:

Right now I have a prospective Green Elf and Duck. What might be some examples for them?

Several good suggestions already for Ducks. Add an entry for 1602 for grandparent to be turned into zombie. Replace 1616 with 1615-17, the Duck Hunts. Options could be: Hid in Upland Marsh, fled to River of Cradles, fled to Nochet, betrayed by Sartarite clan, hunted and slain by Sartarite clan, hunted and sold into slavery by Lunar soldiers. 

As for the Green Elves, the new adventuring elf will be roughly 20-40 years of age, so born 1580 or after. Green elves mature at 50+ and live to ~300. So parents minimally born ~1530 but could date to ~1300. Grandparents born between ~1050-1250. 

Let's say these are Green Elves from Dragon Pass/Prax, so choose birth location from: 1) Forest of Wondrous Beasts; 2) Red Dragon Vale; 3) Tarndisi's Grove; 4) Redwood.

Grandparent events:

1100-1120: Coming of the True Golden Horde and the Dragonkill. Many forests burned for fuel. Were they betrayed by Yelmalions? Friends killed by Yelm worshippers? Burned by Dragonfire? Secretly aided the dragonewts? Helped Yelmalions escape across the Death line?

1247: Battle with the Greylands of the trolls. Rise of the Red Moon. 

1300-1320: Coming of the Colymar and other tribes. Make successful pact with Colymar? Betrayed by other Sartarite tribes? etc.

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Hrm.

It isn't at all clear to me that human-style FH tables are relevant to Mostali, or even Aldryami.

As a practical issue (as noted by others) the lifespan & generation-times suggest that you need a LOT more history.

But far beyond that issue is a question -- do they even care?

Who are the parents of a new Mostali unit, and do they inculcate anything like a "Family History," to take pride in, to learn from... to individualize from??!?

I can see an Elf with loyalty and pride and identity based around a forest -- even a particular glade, or dell, or hillside, or etc -- but specific loyalty/identity based upon the tree from whose cones/acorns/whatever they were sprouted???  Ummm ... Maybe?  I doubt it, though.

YGMV.

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43 minutes ago, g33k said:

generation-times suggest that you need a LOT more history

I don't think you need endless historical lists for these. As with humans, there are certain events that punctuate the longer periods and embed in their minds. Other similar events just "reinforce" but don't need elaboration.

44 minutes ago, g33k said:

Who are the parents of a new Mostali unit

For the Mostali, just go with the individual.

45 minutes ago, g33k said:

but specific loyalty/identity based upon the tree from whose cones/acorns/whatever they were sprouted???

As they say "the acorn doesn't fall far from the tree"! Or in this case, the elf. But, I agree, the loyalty will be to the grove or the dryad, not a parent. Maybe they go by "1st Elder" for the prior generation, "2nd Elder" for two generations prior, etc.

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1 hour ago, g33k said:

But far beyond that issue is a question -- do they even care?

This is a great question. The answer is that they are attracted to the concept of detailed family history during character creation. They know even less about "canon" than I do. So I can see an argument being made for "make it what you want" and calling it good. I'd like to challenge them to just write a character history that smells of "bronze age" and "mythology-focused" (as opposed to "high fantasy").

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14 minutes ago, klecser said:

This is a great question...

Huh.

See now... I was talking from an in-character POV, not player.

I'm not at all clear that any direct human-like "family history" background is relevant to the dwarf & elf races.  For an Elf, as noted -- a Forest, a glade, etc; maybe a Dryad!  For a Dwarf -- it wouldn't be raised on a "family history" basis, nothing to create individualism, family "pride," etc...

But yeah... Gotta get PLAYER buy-in, too!   😯😃

 

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I don't think its wrong to ask a player if their character even cares about family history either. But is that in the "spirit of Runequest?" I know YGWV is an answer. But that isn't the only answer either.

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3 hours ago, g33k said:

Who are the parents of a new Mostali unit, and do they inculcate anything like a "Family History," to take pride in, to learn from... to individualize from??!?

Dwarf Family History table:

1597

1-20  stayed at home, did work.

1598

1-20. Stayed at home, did work

1599

1-20. Stayed at home, did work

 

:D

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Seems to me that an elven family history would be much different than a human one, The events that would matter to an aldryami would be on a different time scale "don't worry about that slight Elmanagic the Yellow offered, in 350 seasons (70 years) it won't mean a thing. You are but 250 seasons old (50 years). When you get to be my age, you'll see it all differently."

Also of a much different nature I am sure are battles Are they as reverent to a long lived race (certainly not non- aldryami battles imo), If not what would be remembered that would matter and give context and passions as well as chances to increase skills to an aldryami's life and formative years other than battle. Bad winters, The coming of settlers, and axes...

Using this as a stating place, why not give just as many examples as one would give a human but over a greater span of years and historical events that an elf would note? 

Edited by Bill the barbarian
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