Spell Range

[PhilHibbs]

Am I right in thinking that a spell drops if the target of the spell goes outside of the spell's range from the caster?

Clearly this does not apply to touch spells, otherwise Strength or Coordination would require the caster to remain in contact with the target for them to continue to benefit.

But if I cast Demoralize on someone and they run away, I think the spell drops when they get 50m away from the caster. I don't think the spell re-asserts itself when they come back within 50m, although that might be amusing for the visuals.

If I cast Mobility on someone to help them chase down a fleeing opponent, that could be quite an important detail. I'd have to run along with them, if the chase isn't going to be over really quickly.

I think at one point in a previous RQ3 game we ruled that some active spells became inactive when outside of the range, but could be re-activated. So a Form/Set spell could be left in its fixed shape outside of the range, but could again be manipulated when the sorcerer or the item returned. Dominate spells could be kept up on targets, and re-asserted when appropriate. I'm not sure if I still agree with that rule, perhaps it was grandfathered in because a character had used that trick in a previous game and it was central to his character concept.

Edited July 12, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Psullie]

I'd like to see where you got that from.

I've always gone with range being from caster to target at the time of casting (at least for instantaneous spells). You cast Demoralised on a Troll whose 45m way and he runs, he'll remain demoralised for 2 minutes regardless of the distance. 

[PhilHibbs]

36 minutes ago, Psullie said:

I'd like to see where you got that from.

I'd have to go back over the RQ3 rules and see if it's clear or not, because that's where most of my preconceptions stem from. RQG is a little ambiguous on the subject.

[Joerg]

If the spell was active, then I would see your point, but effects like Demoralize or Befuddle, Fanaticism or any of the protective spirit magics create an alteration to the target's magical aura that remains on for the duration.

Sorcerous Dominate appears to be a borderline case. Increasing the distance between caster and target prevents the caster to alter instructions, but if given an instruction for an ongoing activity, I see no reason for the target to stop doing so while the caster maintains concentration. With Dampen Damage, I would agree to your interpretation that the caster cannot counteract each swing of a weapon that happens too far away from him. If you cast it on the ram of a galley, you had better instruct the captain or helmsman of your vessel to keep within range, or allow for a big enough distance.

[Shiningbrow]

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Am I right in thinking that a spell drops if the target of the spell goes outside of the spell's range from the caster?

Clearly this does not apply to touch spells, otherwise Strength or Coordination would require the caster to remain in contact with the target for them to continue to benefit.

But if I cast Demoralize on someone and they run away, I think the spell drops when they get 50m away from the caster. I don't think the spell re-asserts itself when they come back within 50m, although that might be amusing for the visuals.

If I cast Mobility on someone to help them chase down a fleeing opponent, that could be quite an important detail. I'd have to run along with them, if the chase isn't going to be over really quickly.

I think at one point in a previous RQ3 game we ruled that some active spells became inactive when outside of the range, but could be re-activated. So a Form/Set spell could be left in its fixed shape outside of the range, but could again be manipulated when the sorcerer or the item returned. Dominate spells could be kept up on targets, and re-asserted when appropriate. I'm not sure if I still agree with that rule, perhaps it was grandfathered in because a character had used that trick in a previous game and it was central to his character concept.

If you accept that logic, then Speedart and Multimissile become useless most of the time... 

So, yeah, "at the time of casting"' makes the most amount of sense... And, that's also when the spell takes effect, not just when you start chanting.

Being the bastard that I am*, I'd also rule that you do indeed need to still be touching the target to Heal them.. If they decide to run after an enemy to attack, that's on them! 

 

(Why don't PC police get all uppity about the mis-use of this word??? So many children born to unmarried couples... Such an unfounded pejorative!!!)

[soltakss]

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Am I right in thinking that a spell drops if the target of the spell goes outside of the spell's range from the caster?

No, I've never played that.

In my RQ, the spell range is the range up to which the spell can be cast. If the target then moves out of range, the spell continues.

There may be some exceptions, if a spell is Active then it is possible that it must stay within range of the caster to be maintained, for example. 

[Kloster]

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

No, I've never played that.

In my RQ, the spell range is the range up to which the spell can be cast. If the target then moves out of range, the spell continues.

There may be some exceptions, if a spell is Active then it is possible that it must stay within range of the caster to be maintained, for example. 

Same understanding for me.

[PhilHibbs]

p255:

Quote

It defines the maximum distance from the
caster at which the spell’s effects can occur.

This is the ambiguity that I mentioned. Do a spell's effects "continue to occur" throughout the duration, or do they occur once and just continue?

[g33k]

59 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

p255:

This is the ambiguity that I mentioned. Do a spell's effects "continue to occur" throughout the duration, or do they occur once and just continue?

I see the ambiguity, but you appear to be mistaken (YGMV).

If there is no specific language to the contrary granting exceptions, I go with the ruling that the most-sensible interpretation of the RAW makes sense.

My decision criteria is this:  how many spells "break" (need exceptions to an interpretation) for any given interpretation?

I find @Shiningbrow's argument compelling, for Speedart & Multimissile; those spells would look kind of absurd if the ended at 50m of range.  The OP example of "Demoralize" is another -- the duration is 2 minutes, not "or until more then 50m away."  It should only take a round or so to sprint away under the spell... then it's over???  That seems "broken" to me, like a ridiculously-weak effect.

How many spells "break" if instead you assume the spell goes away at 50m from the caster?

The other line I consider is those same "Touch" spells you dismissed up-front, that would end when the caster stops touching them:  rather than consider them "exceptions," I find them exemplars of spell-effects continuing after the target exceeds the range.  They "break" under your interpretation of the RAW, unless they have specific language granting them exceptions.

 

n.b. I am away from all my books & unable to check the actual RAW, so I may be mis-remembering things.

[PhilHibbs]

9 hours ago, g33k said:

I see the ambiguity, but you appear to be mistaken (YGMV).

That's fine, I asked the question because I'm not sure of the answer!

9 hours ago, g33k said:

I find @Shiningbrow's argument compelling, for Speedart & Multimissile; those spells would look kind of absurd if the ended at 50m of range.

You mean, because the spell ends before it hits a long-range target? I think the problem there is that 50m is an arbitrary simplified game mechanic, rather than a literal, provable-in-the-world spherical bubble if power. Of course the missile hits with the Speedart or Multimissile effect.

9 hours ago, g33k said:

How many spells "break" if instead you assume the spell goes away at 50m from the caster?

Another way to put it is, how many break if they don't? The two minute duration eliminates such concerns under normal circumstances, but when you bring in the Spell Extension shamanic power, does that change? Genuine question, as I write this I don't have an answer. Let's see if I can find one.

Strength. One of the best spells in the book. Cast it on someone with Spell Extension, and they can go half way around the world keeping that +8 STR bonus. I'm ok with that.

Control. "Attack anyone entering this room". Nice. Again, I'm ok with shamans being able to set guardian spirits.

Countermagic. Nasty. No healing for you, until you can muster a large Dispel or Dismiss.

Ok, I can't think of a world-breaking example. Any suggestions, or should I take this to the munchkinnery thread? 😁

9 hours ago, g33k said:

The other line I consider is those same "Touch" spells you dismissed up-front, that would end when the caster stops touching them:  rather than consider them "exceptions," I find them exemplars of spell-effects continuing after the target exceeds the range.  They "break" under your interpretation of the RAW, unless they have specific language granting them exceptions.

Fair point.

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

That's fine, I asked the question because I'm not sure of the answer!

I think that most spirit magic is "permanent for the duration". Fireblade is a notable exception as you can switch it off (that's the amount of "active" I would assign to that spell).

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Another way to put it is, how many break if they don't? The two minute duration eliminates such concerns under normal circumstances, but when you bring in the Spell Extension shamanic power, does that change? Genuine question, as I write this I don't have an answer. Let's see if I can find one.

You are approaching this from a game balance perspective. We are still talking about RQ?

I try to look at this from a game world logic perspective. A spirit spell is a temporary alteration of the target's aura. That alteration blows off as the duration expires.

Sorcery spells are similar. They alter the energies of the world around their target, again for the duration. They don't alter the aura, though - take for instance a person with Protection 6 who is hit by a successful Neutralize Magic so that the protection is neutralized. If the Neutralize Magic gets dispelled (or even Neutralized), the  Protection is still up unless the duration expired anyway.

The one thing I am unsure of in world logic terms is divine magic. Theist magic is what you are. It might be argued that it also needs to be where you are.

But then, you are your deity (or channeling your deity's associate) when you cast your rune spell. The deity is definitely pluripresent, so even if the rune caster dies or teleports or DIs away from a target, the magic ought to persist unless the deity in case (or its rune) is suppressed.

 

I think I will stand by my earlier point that the only "out of range, out of effect" case is active control over the last status you applied to an item. So if I cast Fireblade on the sword of a comrade and then teleport away, I can no longer end the spell on my whim, and my comrade has the full duration with a burning blade, even if the combat has been decided by then (for or against him).

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

Countermagic. Nasty. No healing for you, until you can muster a large Dispel or Dismiss.

pshaw. One big expenditure of MP (as boost, e.g. to the Heal), and that CM is history, and your spell went through. Dispel or Dismiss are needed to deal with the persistent CM effects of Shield, Berserk and other such rune spells that imitate spirit spells. If those are stacked with CM, then you need to pour in those MP to get rid of the CM while targeting the rune spell.

[AndreJarosch]

On 7/12/2019 at 9:51 PM, PhilHibbs said:

Am I right in thinking that a spell drops if the target of the spell goes outside of the spell's range from the caster?

Nope, not in my RuneQuest. 

You have a bucket full of water.
You have a range up to 2.5 meter to wet your opponent. 
If he runs out of your range after you emtied the bucket over him, you can´t spill a refilled second bucket over him, but he STILL is wet from the first one. 

[PhilHibbs]

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

You are approaching this from a game balance perspective.

Nope.

Quote

I try to look at this from a game world logic perspective. 

Me too.

Quote

pshaw. One big expenditure of MP (as boost, e.g. to the Heal), and that CM is history, and your spell went through.

True. Even Countermagic 20 can be knocked down by someone with a modest POW and a bit of extra storage.

Edited July 14, 2019 by PhilHibbs