Yelmalio rune in new RQ edition; Rune font

[Qizilbashwoman]

Not sure how to ask this but: Yelmalio is given the full Sky/Fire rune in the new RQ edition. Presumably this is not to scare noobs and will be clarified in expansions? (Being the Cold Light is, uh, sort of His entire shtick.)

While I have your attention: is Chaosium hosting an official rune font anywhere? There's one at https://www.glorantha.com/ but that site is, as I understand it, essentially an archive.

Also, uh, hi! First post, long-time Glorantha fan. Arkat is where it's at.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Yelmalio is given the full Sky/Fire rune in the new RQ edition. Presumably this is not to scare noobs and will be clarified in expansions?

Yes, I believe that notes on the Light, Heat and other partial elements will be covered in the Gods of Glorantha book(s) currently in development.

 

6 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Also, uh, hi! First post, long-time Glorantha fan. Arkat is where it's at.

And welcome!

[Richard S.]

6 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Arkat is where it's at.

Ah, but which Arkat?

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

While I have your attention: is Chaosium hosting an official rune font anywhere? There's one at https://www.glorantha.com/ but that site is, as I understand it, essentially an archive.

Official? Not sure if it's ever been that. It is what it is, I think it was originally fan-created and has just been adopted as a useful thing by Issaries and then Chaosium. David Scott knows more about it. I think he's on the forum but I can't remember what is ID is to tag him (thanks @Crel I have no idea why that didn't show up when I tried it).

If you're not so worried about officialness, I've converted the rune font into individual SVG files, and improved a few of them (some were distinctly lacking in the crinkly edges department), as well as adding the Sorcery techniques runes. They're on the unofficial wiki.

*Edit* The font on glorantha.com is presented as official, but is dated since it says Moon Design rather than Chaosium. I forget what the exact legal relationship is between those two entities nowadays but it's mostly the same folks at heart.

Edited July 22, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Austin]

4 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

David Scott knows more about it. I think he's on the forum but I can't remember what is ID is to tag him.

I'm like 96% sure it's just @David Scott.

[PhilHibbs]

7 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Not sure how to ask this but: Yelmalio is given the full Sky/Fire rune in the new RQ edition. Presumably this is not to scare noobs and will be clarified in expansions? (Being the Cold Light is, uh, sort of His entire shtick.)

Correct. RQG has relatively simple rune mechanics, only using the subset of 2 form, 8 power, and 6 elemental runes (plus plant for aldryami). So while Yelmalio's actual rune in Glorantha is the Light rune, no adventurer has that rune. Just like no adventurer has the Equal Exchange rune, so the rules use Stasis for Issaries instead (which is tough for Orlanthi with their high Movement runes). Hang on is that right? I think it's Lhankor Mhy that gets Stasis instead of Law. Let me check... yes, @Richard S. managed to get in before I corrected myself, Issaries gets Harmony instead of Trade, Lhankor Mhy gets Stasis instead of Law. Orlanth doesn't need anything in place of Mastery, as he has two runes already that can be used. In an ideal world, Command Priests would use the Mastery rune.

Edited July 22, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Richard S.]

1 minute ago, PhilHibbs said:

Correct. RQG has relatively simple rune mechanics, only using the subset of 2 form, 8 power, and 6 elemental runes (plus plant for aldryami). So while Yelmalio's actual rune in Glorantha is the Light rune, no adventurer has that rune. Just like no adventurer has the Equal Exchange rune, so the rules use Stasis for Issaries instead (which is tough for Orlanthi with their high Movement runes).

Issaries uses Movement and Harmony I thought? At least those are the two runes that make up the Trade rune.

[Jeff]

57 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Issaries uses Movement and Harmony I thought? At least those are the two runes that make up the Trade rune.

Issaries is Movement and Harmony.

[Qizilbashwoman]

Hunh

Will this not change? I know the original style was like "Light is limited Sky rune", "Horse is Sky and Animal", "Bird is Sky and Animal", "Bear is Animal and something". There weren't too many of them and they corresponded to important deities: Kargzant, Vrimak, Odayla, etc.

[Qizilbashwoman]

5 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Ah, but which Arkat?

I heavily lean towards Black Arkat because Uz, but I also accept the Green Goddess Alangellia's Dark Emperor ("Arkat of the Seven Forms") as a solid basis for countering the Lunars. If you're gonna fight weird illuminates with a born god of light who can juggle chaos, use weird illuminates with a born god of darkness who can juggle chaos.

[Tindalos]

20 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Hunh

Will this not change? I know the original style was like "Light is limited Sky rune", "Horse is Sky and Animal", "Bird is Sky and Animal", "Bear is Animal and something". There weren't too many of them and they corresponded to important deities: Kargzant, Vrimak, Odayla, etc.

In game terms for RQ:G it's simpler to treat Light as Fire/Sky with restrictions. Likewise Bear, Bird, Horse, and Alynx as the Beast rune but narrowed for their particular cult.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Hunh

Will this not change?

I don't think so, and I don't see why it should. The added complication, for me, is not worth it.

This character has the Fire Rune and worships Yelm. That character has the Light Rune and worships Yelmalio. How do you want to define the differences between those two? If a scenario suggests that a character can use their Fire Rune for something, can the Yelmalion do it or not? If he Spell Trades a Yelm spell, can he cast the Fire Rune spell using their Light Rune?

If someone with the Fire Rune decides to join Yelmalio in later life, how does their Fire Rune translate into a Light Rune rating?

RuneQuest has a simplified Rune system. The game system adapts the cults to fit into this simplified system. I'm happy with that. Other people have proposed house-ruling the Rune system to cover all the Runes, and if you want to add such subtlety and deal with the judgement calls that it leads to, then go for it.

Edited July 22, 2019 by PhilHibbs

[Qizilbashwoman]

10 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't think so, and I don't see why it should. The added complication, for me, is not worth it.

This character has the Fire Rune and worships Yelm. That character has the Light Rune and worships Yelmalio. How do you want to define the differences between those two? If a scenario suggests that a character can use their Fire Rune for something, can the Yelmalion do it or not? If he Spell Trades a Yelm spell, can he cast the Fire Rune spell using their Light Rune?

If someone with the Fire Rune decides to join Yelmalio in later life, how does their Fire Rune translate into a Light Rune rating?

RuneQuest has a simplified Rune system. The game system adapts the cults to fit into this simplified system. I'm happy with that. Other people have proposed house-ruling the Rune system to cover all the Runes, and if you want to add such subtlety and deal with the judgement calls that it leads to, then go for it.

Well, in older RuneQuest, Moon and Light (and other runes) are swapped for the limited rune in question. Initiate into Yelmalio and you trade the "hot" bit of the rune for the benefits provided to a cultist of Yelmalio. It's not a separate rune; it's the same rune, so you just change your rune for the "limited" one. In the same way, We Are All Us principle meant that in earlier games you kindled your Moon rune (joined the Lunar Way) by trading your Fire or Change rune for Full Half Moon rune, your Earth or Life Rune for the Crescent Go Moon rune, and so forth. Each of these gave you access to powerful magics and elementals (Lunes) and set you on the path to Illumination. It also left you open to temptation, because the Chaos rune was always available to the Lunar initiate...

The real difference for me, I guess, is that Yelmalio is not Yelm. While I am glad we aren't in older Runequest, where there was a unique rune for everything, reducing runes to a mere handful reduces the distinction between the gods to name only. Yelmalio cultists don't wield fire magic, only light, and is the Little Sun as rewritten by Nysalor. This is why He is different: he is Light, not the Sun, and has a fraught relationship with the Solar Pantheon. The Sun Dome Temples rebelled against the Lunar Empire and seem primarily interested in their own survival and in converting the heathens.

Maybe this is nerdy? Idk, but they also write the Pure Horse god as "Yelm: the Sun Horse", which... I mean I certainly would never have written it that way. It's Yu-Kargzant (or Hyalor, I guess). There's really no reason to describe this god as Yelm.

I'm not trying to be a grognard here about lore, I swear.

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

Well, in older RuneQuest, Moon and Light (and other runes) are swapped for the limited rune in question. Initiate into Yelmalio and you trade the "hot" bit of the rune for the benefits provided to a cultist of Yelmalio. It's not a separate rune; it's the same rune, so you just change your rune for the "limited" one. In the same way, We Are All Us principle meant that in earlier games you kindled your Moon rune (joined the Lunar Way) by trading your Fire or Change rune for Full Half Moon rune, your Earth or Life Rune for the Crescent Go Moon rune, and so forth. Each of these gave you access to powerful magics and elementals (Lunes) and set you on the path to Illumination. It also left you open to temptation, because the Chaos rune was always available to the Lunar initiate...

The real difference for me, I guess, is that Yelmalio is not Yelm. While I am glad we aren't in older Runequest, where there was a unique rune for everything, reducing runes to a mere handful reduces the distinction between the gods to name only. Yelmalio cultists don't wield fire magic, only light, and is the Little Sun as rewritten by Nysalor. This is why He is different: he is Light, not the Sun, and has a fraught relationship with the Solar Pantheon. The Sun Dome Temples rebelled against the Lunar Empire and seem primarily interested in their own survival and in converting the heathens.

Maybe this is nerdy? Idk, but they also write the Pure Horse god as "Yelm: the Sun Horse", which... I mean I certainly would never have written it that way. It's Yu-Kargzant (or Hyalor, I guess). There's really no reason to describe this god as Yelm.

I'm not trying to be a grognard here about lore, I swear.

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to call the Pure Horse god as "Yelm the Sun Horse" - as everyone would agree that the sun god worshiped by the Dara Happans, by the Pure Horse People, and invoked as the rival of Orlanth by the Orlanthi is the SAME GOD. However, the Pure Horse People speak a different language from the Dara Happans and other Pelorians, so call Yelm "Yu-Kargzant". 

Yelmalio cultists are human beings, and so their elements are Fire/Sky, Earth, Air, Water, Darkness, and Moon. But Yelmalio only has the Light aspect of Fire/Sky (similar to Polaris, Dayzatar, and plenty of others). They are forbidden from calling on the Fire aspects of Fire/Sky, but for game mechanical reasons it is unnecessarily complex to have to trade your Runes around. The cult writeup makes it clear you can't use those spirit magic spells. But at the same time, senior priests of Yelmalio can call down the ultimate FIRE spell - Sunspear - using their Fire Rune, by calling upon Yelm (who most definitely is Fire and Sky)..

[Scotty]

On 7/22/2019 at 5:39 AM, Qizilbashwoman said:

While I have your attention: is Chaosium hosting an official rune font anywhere? There's one at https://www.glorantha.com/ but that site is, as I understand it, essentially an archive.

That is the official rune font. https://www.glorantha.com/docs/glorantha-core-rune-font/ version 1.5 is still the current version. It is still copyright Moon Design.

There will be an update at some point to add the sorcery runes.

The Khordavan font is also still available. https://www.glorantha.com/docs/khordavan-font/

 

[Qizilbashwoman]

7 hours ago, Jeff said:

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to call the Pure Horse god as "Yelm the Sun Horse" - as everyone would agree that the sun god worshiped by the Dara Happans, by the Pure Horse People, and invoked as the rival of Orlanth by the Orlanthi is the SAME GOD. However, the Pure Horse People speak a different language from the Dara Happans and other Pelorians, so call Yelm "Yu-Kargzant". 

Yelmalio cultists are human beings, and so their elements are Fire/Sky, Earth, Air, Water, Darkness, and Moon. But Yelmalio only has the Light aspect of Fire/Sky (similar to Polaris, Dayzatar, and plenty of others). They are forbidden from calling on the Fire aspects of Fire/Sky, but for game mechanical reasons it is unnecessarily complex to have to trade your Runes around. The cult writeup makes it clear you can't use those spirit magic spells. But at the same time, senior priests of Yelmalio can call down the ultimate FIRE spell - Sunspear - using their Fire Rune, by calling upon Yelm (who most definitely is Fire and Sky)..

Well that's... fair. I bow to the Truth rune from Jeff! 

I guess the megavolume Guide to Cults will prolly be more specific with local names like the Pentan term for the Pure Horse form of Sun Horse Yelm. ... Too bad I play HeroQuest, I'll be doing a lot of extrapolating. The RuneQuest materials are so sexy I buy them anyway 😞

Side note: does this forum have Rune Font support? I see only Mega Basic fonts and wow that would be a pretty sweet addition...

5 hours ago, Scotty said:

That is the official rune font. https://www.glorantha.com/docs/glorantha-core-rune-font/ version 1.5 is still the current version. It is still copyright Moon Design.

There will be an update at some point to add the sorcery runes.

The Khordavan font is also still available. https://www.glorantha.com/docs/khordavan-font/

Thanks so much! I use the GCRF but I had no idea the Khordavan font was available, that's just fun.

Edited July 23, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman
to avoid double-posting

[Tindalos]

15 hours ago, Jeff said:

Actually there is a perfectly good reason to call the Pure Horse god as "Yelm the Sun Horse" - as everyone would agree that the sun god worshiped by the Dara Happans, by the Pure Horse People, and invoked as the rival of Orlanth by the Orlanthi is the SAME GOD. However, the Pure Horse People speak a different language from the Dara Happans and other Pelorians, so call Yelm "Yu-Kargzant".

I guess the question is how much do they connect Yu-Kargzant with Kargzant?

Of course then there's the question of Pentans and their worship of Golden Bow and Kargzant, but no apparent record of the Imperial Sun after his death.

I've got to wonder if Yu-Kargzant is (in the third age) peculiar to the Pure Horse Tribe of the Grazelanders, and the legend of Harfraftos the founder and his quest to commune with the Sun God and reunite them with his children (thus separating centaurs into man and horse) a memory of him returning their ancestral cult to them after the Pure Horse myths had been influenced by Dara Happans.

I'm assuming the differences between Yelm the Sun Horse and Yelm the other one are similar to Orlanth Adventurous and Orlanth Thunderous? Two very different subcults to the same entity?

[Julian Lord]

20 hours ago, Jeff said:

But at the same time, senior priests of Yelmalio can call down the ultimate FIRE spell - Sunspear - using their Fire Rune, by calling upon Yelm (who most definitely is Fire and Sky)..

You mean as Yemalio Rune Magic rather than as a spell from Yelm as an associated cult ? Interesting.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Tindalos said:

I guess the question is how much do they connect Yu-Kargzant with Kargzant?

Of course then there's the question of Pentans and their worship of Golden Bow and Kargzant, but no apparent record of the Imperial Sun after his death.

I've got to wonder if Yu-Kargzant is (in the third age) peculiar to the Pure Horse Tribe of the Grazelanders, and the legend of Harfraftos the founder and his quest to commune with the Sun God and reunite them with his children (thus separating centaurs into man and horse) a memory of him returning their ancestral cult to them after the Pure Horse myths had been influenced by Dara Happans.

I'm assuming the differences between Yelm the Sun Horse and Yelm the other one are similar to Orlanth Adventurous and Orlanth Thunderous? Two very different subcults to the same entity?

Kargzant is a pre-Dawn Light god. He's Lightfore. Most settled folk in the Pelorian bowl associate him with Yelmalio. Why do you think that Yelmalio has Kuschile horse archery and other horse-y skills?

Yu-Kargzant is the Sun that appeared with the Dawn. At first, many people thought he was the Sun Disk carried by Kargzant or Antirius or whatever, but soon enough most everyone concluded he is the returned Yelm.

[Tindalos]

2 hours ago, Jeff said:

Kargzant is a pre-Dawn Light god. He's Lightfore. Most settled folk in the Pelorian bowl associate him with Yelmalio. Why do you think that Yelmalio has Kuschile horse archery and other horse-y skills?

Yu-Kargzant is the Sun that appeared with the Dawn. At first, many people thought he was the Sun Disk carried by Kargzant or Antirius or whatever, but soon enough most everyone concluded he is the returned Yelm.

And as for Pent, I'm assuming Yu-Kargzant is one of cults worshipped only by the Pure Horse clans and tribe, rather than the solar tribes?

[Jeff]

10 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

And as for Pent, I'm assuming Yu-Kargzant is one of cults worshipped only by the Pure Horse clans and tribe, rather than the solar tribes?

Yelm is worshiped by all the Solar Tribes, but few outside the Pure Horse People can initiate to him. Just like in the rest of Peloria. Whereas among the PHP, he's the main men's deity (just like with the Grazeland Pony Breeders). 

[g33k]

8 hours ago, Jeff said:

Yelm is worshiped by all the Solar Tribes, but few outside the Pure Horse People can initiate to him. 

Wait...  I thought the Dara Happan's were still heavily Yelm-oriented?  And Initiate into Yelm's worship readily.

 

[albinoboo]

21 minutes ago, g33k said:

Wait...  I thought the Dara Happan's were still heavily Yelm-oriented?  And Initiate into Yelm's worship readily.

 

He is talking about Pent.

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Wait...  I thought the Dara Happan's were still heavily Yelm-oriented?  And Initiate into Yelm's worship readily.

 

Most Dara Happans can't readily initiate into the Yelm cult. In most cases, it is about 5% of the population who initiate to Yelm - the nobility. At least three times that number are Lodril initiates. So Yelm is the RULING cult but not the main men's cult.

Same thing in Pent. In most Solar Tribes, Yelm is the god of the leaders and the noble families. Except among the Pure Horse People, where he is the main men's god. 

[Byll]

Is the second class (Witnesses?) allowed to initiate to Yelm? I guess not from what's said in the previous post, or if they are they're not allowed to become priests, just provide a respectable congregation to attend ceremonies, can they initiate to Busserian? I assume Officers mostly worship Arraz, Polaris and specialist gods like Sagitus, Avivorus and Vantestos.