Glorantha: Beginners Guide?

[JonL]

1 hour ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

That is very much a contention against the Lunars, I believe, where the disagreement is over whether Sedenya is the reincarnation/restitution of numerous iterations of THE moon goddess, or whether she is - to be blunt about it - a Frankenstein's monster of a stitched-together deity.

Those premises are also not mutually exclusive. Moon embodies transformation over time, cyclical death/rebirth, synthesis of opposing forces, and incorporation of that which destroys it.

[Qizilbashwoman]

43 minutes ago, JonL said:

Those premises are also not mutually exclusive. Moon embodies transformation over time, cyclical death/rebirth, synthesis of opposing forces, and incorporation of that which destroys it.

this is also why the Lunar Way tolerates Chaos, although corruption has turned that from "Chaos is an unavoidable and natural part of the world just like death is" to the current Mask of the Emperor inviting the daughter of the foul Seseine the Tempter and the terrifying Ralzakark, Emperor of Dorastor to be his concubine. (His sister will murder him for this, but the Empire will fall anyway.)

[JonL]

I like the "10 Things" idea.

So far, we've got the Red Moon and Kiero Fin.

I might expand "Kiero Fin" to be a general placeholder for localized "Giant Fantasy Terrain" features like Esrola's Throne, The Block, etc. The Red Moon could go under that umbrella as well, but is important enough in other ways to deserve it's own line item.

I wonder if a Q&A format might make sense.

What does the world around my character look like? (Bronze Age-ish tech & trappings, Big Fantasy Geography, Alynxes, Dragons, Praxian mounts)

How does magic work in Glorantha? ("Theism is something you are...")

Cults? Spirit Societies? Clans?

Can I play a _______? (Map common RPG character types to Cults & cultures)

Who are the main peoples of Glorantha, and what makes them unique? ("Things my ___ told me:")

What are the key conflicts in the setting? ("The Hero Wars are about...")

What do adventurers do in Glorantha?

 

What else?

[scott-martin]

3 minutes ago, JonL said:

Who are the main peoples of Glorantha, and what makes them unique? ("Things my ___ told me:")

Love the Q&A. This does sound like a more universal form of "What The XXXX Says." 

How about a one-sheet for conventions, campaign handout and other promotional purposes, "What Everybody Knows."

There's all these types of person, the world is flat and everything is inhabited by spirits if not alive. They will talk to you. Society used to work like such and such but things are changing fast. There's cool stuff that Everybody Knows about here, here and reportedly over here.

[Qizilbashwoman]

Our land Kerofinela is named for the goddess Kero Fin but is usually called "Dragon Pass" for the dragonewts. Don't mess with dragonewt territory over there, they don't think like people and nobody understands what they do or why.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Every group has their own perspective on how the world works, and you'll get different answers depending on who you ask. Myths are used to justify and explain why things are the way they are, not physics or other scientific disciplines. This applies to both nature and to societies. Multiple different versions of a myth can be true, depending on who you ask. This might sound confusing at first, but it is the fundamental reason for why different peoples are in conflicts with each other, or are in rivalries. 

There are few overarching, abstract moral ideologies here, but rather different peoples who believe different myths and accordingly act differently. Sometimes they disagree vehemently. People will reenact or retell these myths several times during their lifetime or even during a year, and during those times they will feel a part of them. These myths are tied to peoples and places, and tie communities together, and so allegiances, friendships and rivalries are usually personal and cultural, not philosophically abstract, ie. lawful evil versus chaotic good and the like. 

Myths hold magical insight and power, they are both sacred stories for why things are the way they are, and sources of magic or other secrets that characters can use to help their communities grow or stay safe - or to fight enemies. In these myths there are powerful beings, like gods and heroes, and by acting out their deeds in retellings or reenactments, mortals can tap into their powers and abilities. This also means they often become more like these gods in worldview, personality or morality, so very old conflicts can be reproduced over a very long time if sacred myths pit different peoples against each other.

There are other ways to get powers as well, and other ways to view myths, but that's a story for another time.

-------

I tried to boil the essence, the nitty-gritty of how a Gloranthan mindset and world works, although it has a theistic (and I guess maybe animistic) slant. There are texts more or less like this in the Guide and Sourcebook as well, but I dropped all specific names and made it as generic as possible. Might be some unnecessary repetition here - but something like this is what I would tell someone I know if I ever wanted them to be able to get into a Gloranthan mindset.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[Bill the barbarian]

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

Yes, and that's a good indication I should move this away from the thread titled "Beginner's Guide". Well past high time, really.

Which I did, except for this tailing end which is extremely on-topic here:

 

The only member of the community, who's avatar should be yellow caution tape above the caption

"Beware of Grognard!"

Edited August 20, 2019 by Bill the barbarian

[Bill the barbarian]

1 hour ago, JonL said:

What do adventurers do in Glorantha?

 

Wha Why are ducks?

Qizilbashwoman, and others, please see spoiler alert below...

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

this is also why the Lunar Way tolerates Chaos, although corruption has turned that from "Chaos is an unavoidable and natural part of the world just like death is" to the current Mask of the Emperor inviting the daughter of the foul Seseine the Tempter and the terrifying Ralzakark, Emperor of Dorastor to be his concubine. (His sister will murder him for this, but the Empire will fall anyway.)

[Spoiler/]

Assuming this to be true, spoiler alerts, please.

Cheers

Edited August 20, 2019 by Bill the barbarian
to add spoiler

[Qizilbashwoman]

Just now, Bill the barbarian said:

Assuming this to be true, spoiler alerts, please.

... this isn't a spoiler tho? it's in the books

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

... this isn't a spoiler tho? it's in the books

So is the end of a book which if told is a spoiler...

We should be nice to newcomers and I would assume this to mean avoiding spoilers lest the individual wished to see them.

Cheers

[JonL]

31 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Wha Why are ducks?

Ducks are tragic, because they fight a never-ending guerrilla war to contain the threat of an immortal necromancer, quietly shielding the lands of the humans who look down on them (or worse). To better fight the undead menace, many of their warriors must ritually sever their connections to the very families they fight to protect.

Ducks are comic, because they're anthropomorphic ducks. 

The ironic juxtaposition between these tragic and comic elements makes both poles more impactful than either would be alone. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by JonL

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, JonL said:

Ducks are tragic, because they fight a never-ending guerrilla war to contain the threat of an immortal necromancer, quietly shielding the lands of the humans who look down on them (or worse). To better fight the undead menace, many of their warriors must ritually sever their connections to the very families they fight to protect.

Ducks are comic, because they're anthropomorphic ducks. 

The ironic juxtaposition between these tragic and comic elements makes both poles more impactful than either would be alone. 

Ahh, that brought tears to my elderly eyes... better get a box of Kleenex before Quackatoa sees that.

[Qizilbashwoman]

46 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

We should be nice to newcomers and I would assume this to mean avoiding spoilers lest the individual wished to see them.

ok fair but i think it's like in the guide i didn't even think this was a spoiler

i'm not a deliberate spoiler person

we never actually reach the future in Glorantha so it's kind of irrelevant

Edited August 20, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Bill the barbarian]

Just now, Qizilbashwoman said:

ok fair but i think it's like in the guide i didn't even think this was a spoiler

Yeah, I probably am a stickler (not to be confused with a stickpicker) and should apologize, but which outlier is preferred?

Cheers and thanks for understanding!

[Qizilbashwoman]

3 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Yeah, I probably am a stickler (not to be confused with a stickpicker) and should apologize, but which outlier is preferred?

Cheers and thanks for understanding!

I should recheck. I know I'm waist-deep in lore, but I think this was right in King of Sartar as well as the Glorantha Sourcebook. Could have been Guide to Glorantha.

noooo apologies needed, apologies from me if anything.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Qizilbashwoman

[Bill the barbarian]

2 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

noooo apologies needed, apologies from me if anything.

ALLRIGHT! 

who knows all the words to Kumbaya?

cheers

[Shiningbrow]

10 hours ago, JonL said:

Ducks are tragic, because they fight a never-ending guerrilla war to contain the threat of an immortal necromancer, quietly shielding the lands of the humans who look down on them (or worse). To better fight the undead menace, many of their warriors must ritually sever their connections to the very families they fight to protect.

Ducks are comic, because they're anthropomorphic ducks. 

The ironic juxtaposition between these tragic and comic elements makes both poles more impactful than either would be alone. 

Those are only a particular group of ducks...

[Qizilbashwoman]

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Those are only a particular group of ducks...

what other ducks are there?

there are other avian, uh, are they hsunchen? like the keet, but the durulz are from Sartar afaik.

[Joerg]

24 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

what other ducks are there?

Ducks may (or may not) have various different colorations, but I don't think they have races or subspecies - at best, these are family traits.

 

Quote

there are other avian, uh, are they hsunchen? like the keet, but the durulz are from Sartar afaik.

There are no humanoid bird Hsunchen in published Glorantha. The keets are a (moderately) civilized species of aviform humanoids, with various subspecies replicating the features of different aquatic (webbed foot) birds. The East Isles population includes ducks, terns, flamingos...

There is also another species of aviform humanoids in southeastern Vithela, the Parrot People of Forng. No direct relation to the keets.

No other bird-headed humanoids are extant (except for the beast-headed inhabitants of Narkast in Jrustela), although Rinliddi/North Pent or Suvaria may have had some in the distant past (Early Golden Age or before)

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by Joerg

[Qizilbashwoman]

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

There are no humanoid bird Hsunchen

I wasn't sure if they were classified as a kind of Hsunchen is all

[Joerg]

Just now, Qizilbashwoman said:

I wasn't sure if they were classified as a kind of Hsunchen is all

The Kralori "Eagle Hsunchen" are mis-classified wind children. To my knowledge that is the only such case (at least where birds are involved).

Rather than Hsunchen, the Durulz of Dragon Pass are classed as Beastfolk, like minotaurs, manticores etc. I don't think that either of the aviform populations of the East Isles are grouped with such entities, or even with one another.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Basically, the whole "animal-people" or "people with animal-traits" or whatever you call it is a bit of a confusing mess. (EDIT: partly intentionally and partly simply due to successive design visions building up over the years, I'd imagine).

I guess you can argue that what marks Hsunchen is that they show abilities of transformation between human and totemic animal, whereas beastfolk appear by default as either somewhere in the middle of, or as a mix of human and animal, not necessarily having any totemic spirit or transformative abilities. This is complicated by creatures like the Wind Children (which are humanoids with wings and are strongly associated with Storm/Air) who are apparently their own things, and the Keets (humanoid birds, mostly waterfowl, iirc) who are also considered their own things. And then you get the various minor groups that Joerg mentioned that muddle the terrain even further.

So yeah, who knows what's going on. Anyway, it's not like the border between humans and animals is some fundamentally solid barrier in Glorantha, so there are lots of different ways it might've been crossed/avoided.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Sir_Godspeed

[jajagappa]

16 hours ago, Joerg said:

There are no humanoid bird Hsunchen in published Glorantha

What about the Owl People of Fronela? (GtG p.233)

Flari (Black Owl People)
Population: 1,400. Homeland: Rathorela (Fronela).
The Flari are a small tribe of Fronelan savages who worship the black owl. Their stealthy nocturnal raids, and their ability to turn into birds, give them a fearsome reputation.

[Joerg]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

What about the Owl People of Fronela? (GtG p.233)

Flari (Black Owl People)
Population: 1,400. Homeland: Rathorela (Fronela).
The Flari are a small tribe of Fronelan savages who worship the black owl. Their stealthy nocturnal raids, and their ability to turn into birds, give them a fearsome reputation.

I knew I should have rephrased that..

Those are human _bird hsunchen_,  not  _humanoid bird_ hsunchen. I could add the extinct jungle hen people of Kralorela.

[jajagappa]

18 hours ago, Joerg said:

_humanoid bird_ hsunchen

You mean bird-headed folk? Or human-headed "birds"? Perhaps harpies were such originally (depending on whose origin stories you might believe), but their corruption tainted all of similar look (and such were destroyed in the Gods War).