Phil O'Connor

19 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Well, the Telmori are there, and no longer have to fear Jomes, so likely take to raiding the herds and flocks of surrounding clans rather heavily.

There will be a few of the old Maboder clan around who now want to reclaim the lands for their own (but with what resources?).

The Cinsina, Culbrea, and Torkani may all want to take control of some or all of the land, if they can only find a way to drive out the Telmori.

And these squabbles/struggles will likely continue until a strong Prince of Sartar can find a way to resolve it.

Yeah that all makes sense, but I assumed that when Ivartha dies at the Battle of the Queens so does the dream of a Maboder revival, as she was one of the more powerful people supporting the Daughters of Maboder. Ian Cooper recently opined on the Gloranthan Godlearners Podcast that he believes that Argrath makes a deal with the Cincina to wipe out the Telmori in exchange for their support in performing the Stealing The Giant's Cows heroquest in 1627, which he wants to perform in order to fulfill the prophecy of hunting Aurochs in Dragon Pass once again. I think this works well with the other elements.
       How does this affect the Princedom of Argrath? Sartar made peace with the Telmori, one of his kingship tests. Argrath will drive them out of Sartar, this fits the pattern of Argrath finding a "New Way" in order to defeat the Red Emperor. Yet another terrible price he has to pay on his path to defeating his enemies. 

On 6/11/2021 at 5:03 AM, Jeff said:

Jomes Wulf was given Wulfsland as his own grant, while keeping his active command within the Provincial Army. After the Dragonrise, he and his soldiers fled to Alda-Chur. Along with Jorad Sideburn, Jomes now serves as one of Pharandros's senior field commanders.

What happens to Wulfsland when he flees Sartar? 

On 12/13/2021 at 4:17 AM, Puckohue said:

The Glorantha Sourcebook has this to say:

 

<quote>Argrath went to the Thunder Brothers at Old Wind Temple for a blessing, and got it. He went to Sun Dome County and installed his friend Rurik Runespear as Count. He went to Clearwine for a blessing from the Colymar, and got it. At Two-Ridge Fort he installed his friend Vailor Blue Fox as king of the Malani. Argrath put the Tricksters under his protection and told them to come out of hiding. Argrath then went to Boldhome, accompanied by his companions. </quote>
 

Do you think that list of destinations should be read as chronological?

Do you think he would be noticed when travelling around Sartar? Maybe people loyal to him joins him along the way?

What about his army? I’m guessing he’d bring some kind of force (in addition to his companions). Or would he be able to install counts and kings simply by reputation?

If you trace his route, beginning at Alda Chur, through the various locations listed in order you will notice a pattern, ending in Boldhome. So yes, it is chronological. 

And he probably flew, as is appropriate for this pilgrimage, since it would have taken too long to walk/ride and end up in Boldhome to light the flame. He travelled with his closest magical companions that could keep up. (Flying steeds, sylphs, spells, etc...)

On 1/28/2020 at 11:59 AM, Jeff said:

Regardless, the Runequest Campaign, which covers 1625 to 1655 (plus and minus a few years as well) is in the works. Its origins predate the Pendragon Campaign and informed and inspired that, Boy King, and the Grand Pendragon Campaign. It's been present in the background of all Gloranthan publications since before Runequest itself and bringing it out is a top priority for the next year.

I am dying to see this in print, but obviously it has fallen by the wayside in favour of other publications. Is it still in the pipeline and if so what is the new estimate? It is a shame that this was announced four years ago and still no sign of it. I realize that publishing books is a different business model and hard copy is its own beast, but I am still greatly disappointed that although it was your personal favorite thing to work on, it has not seen the light of day. 

By the way Jeff gives the Stasis week date in his White Bull Campaign video on youtube. 

My confusion stems from Jeff's notes, that give one date, and the recently printed RQG date, of which Jeff is the author. You can see where people get confused by the contradictory information. I am a big fan of official timelines when official canonical events are described in the historical background. Of course anyone can ignore or change these, but at least establish a baseline of official dates from official material. It would really help make the IP more consistent and high quality. Thanks for the replies. 

What is the actual date of this battle?

Is it Wildday Stasis week as indicated on the Well of Daliath or Godday Movement week as stated in RQG p 138

14 hours ago, davecake said:

And note that Antirius is not the Emperor, but the protector of Emperors. Emperors can exist that do not incarnate Yelm, because Emperors existed during the Darkness when Yelm was broken, and during the Silver Age just before the Dawn when Yelm had not yet returned. But those Emperors who do not have the blessing and protection of Antirius, Yelms justice, will be Bad Emperors, and a disgrace. And now that Yelm has returned, Yelms Justice will not protect anyone who is not also blessed by Yelm. 
Whether an Emperor could exist now who is a Just and true Emperor is a question that Pelorian historians and theologians might debate among themselves - but clearly an Emperor who is not a true member of the Yelm cult is able to become Emperor and pass the Ten Tests, they will just possibly be a terrible one (and everyone gets very upset once they talk about that time a dragon became Emperor). And it gets real awkward if they discuss the possibility of a Pure Horse Yu-Kargzant worshipper becoming a valid Emperor, and the Imperial agents start looking around to see who harbours Seleric sympathies and must be purged (though the reign of the Jenarong dynasty is not denied, and they were definitely better than no Emperor at all). But no one can deny that there have been Emperors who were not proper Yelm worshippers, according to GROY and TFS, so it’s legally and magically valid, just very bad and very wrong to want it. An Emperor may have the blessing of Antirius - but a true Yelmic Emperor will have it, because Antirius is an intrinsic part of Yelm. 

 

Thanks for that, insightful. The way Greg explained it to me, the central conflict in Glorantha is between Yelm and Orlanth, and this has not changed even after the compromise. The disintegration of Yelm may have broken and scattered his power, and his absence may have allowed Chaos into the world, but the cause of the slow dissolution of Glorantha each age is due to the nature of both Yelm and Orlanth. Yelm may have been scattered and broken but he is always trying to return to his rightful place as Emperor of the World. This is his nature, to be Emperor of the World. Orlanth had to replace him and become King of the Gods, but he is constantly being challenged by Yelm who will eternally be trying to re-assemble himself and sit once more on the throne of Glorantha. This is the cause of the struggles that plague each age and leads to catastrophic conflict with each incarnation of Yelm's imperial justice re-asserting itself in the world. The first age it was as Nysalor, a god once known as Rashoran or Rashorana (or both) and who tried to be worshipped as the New Sun. The second age it was as the Dragon sitting on the throne of Yuthuppa. In the third age it is Sedenya, the feminine part of Yelm, Rashorana resurrected, the illuminated goddess of time that tries to re-assert the divine rule of Yelm as the Goddess of the Middle Sky, displacing Orlanth and placing her male avatar upon the throne of the Emperor. 

The problem is that this conflict damages the compromise each time it happens and lets in more chaos, weakening the fabric of the world even further. Orlanth understands this as the main threat to Glorantha, but Yelm pre-dates Chaos and has a blind spot for it (pun intended), Yelm does not acknowledge chaos as a threat, only his lack of dominion over the world as the problem. 

Each part of Yelm was worshipped separately by different peoples as the many suns, and at one stage or another they  attempted to place their own vision of Yelm's part on the throne of the true Emperor. They all failed eventually since each part is an incomplete piece of the whole, but it isn't for lack of trying. The worship of Elmal lasted a good three ages though, not bad. This eternal conflict between Yelm and Orlanth will cause the eventually dissipation of divine forces in Glorantha.  

There is so much in this thread but I am late to the party. Yet I feel I must add my 2 cents based on 30 years of pondering various Gloranthan mysteries, in particular Y/elmal/io:

When Elmal first came out 26 or so years ago, Greg explained it to me over various phone and convention conversations, and it still makes sense even with Jeff's recent information on the subject. 

Greg said (and I paraphrase badly) that Yelm disintegrated when he was killed with Death, into seven parts. Every god has seven parts btw, even mortals do. One of those parts was his illuminated part, the act of dying illuminated Yelm (at least in the divine sense) and this illuminated part was called different names, Bijiff was an early one. Another name was Rashoran. (I won't go into this entity much suffice to say it is key to understanding 3rd age Yelmalio). 

Each part of Yelm was worshipped by the survivors of the lesser then great darkness, each people brought their own prejudices and needs to the worship of these parts of Yelm and gave them different names, I won't go into them here since it would be a long list. 

What Greg wanted to reconcile was the fact that when Yelm returned to the sky (Lightbringers), he had to have a new place in the world that Orlanth created rather than the old world that was destroyed, in the same way that Yelm had a place for Orlanth as the Rebel on the Godswall. Elmal was the way that the storm tribe worshipped Yelm, or the part of him that became friends with Orlanth in hell during the Lightbringer's Quest. Elmal was the way the the dawn Orlanthi placed the sun in their cosmology. Of course Elmal is not Yelm, he is a part of Yelm, more specifically the part of him that is associated with the Light of Yelm, the Little Sun,  Lightfore, The Young God, Antirius, Yelmalio to the Dara Happans (Broken Council). 

For many centuries Elmal and Yelmalio co existed, like the other part of Yelm co-existed, without coming into contact until the Lunars came along. Lunar hero questing during their struggles to become an empire affected many myths and cults. In particular their struggles against the Orlanthi tribes of Saird and later Sartar took on a magical aspect, as everyone knows the primary avenue of attack of the Lunar empire is the hero plane, as the God Learners and the Bright Empire before them. 

What better way to weaken the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass than to undermine or destroy the cult of Elmal (who guards the stead during the Lightbringer's Quest), who was worshipped in Saird by the horse nomads before the dawn and later transposed to Hendrikiland by the Orlanthi tribes who refused to follow Lokamayadon, then brought to Dragon Pass during the repopulation. 

The King of Dragon Pass description of the Elmal Guard's the Stead and Chalana Heals the Scars quests gives it away, in terms of Elmal's origins and what may have happened in the third age when Monrogh quested to find Yelmalio. 

I consider those quests canon because they came from Greg in collaboration with David Dunham, and that game did more to solidify the inner workings of Glorantha for me than years of supplements and source materials. I am a hand's on learner, I understand by doing. Six Ages and KoDP all made it fit together for me and with the support of other materials and cryptic conversations with Greg I feel I "get it" as far as Elmal is concerned, as much as any one can possible understand the mysteries that Greg consciously built in this world of his. 

Sorry, I forgot to get to the punchline. As someone else already stated in this thread, I also believe that Monrogh failed his quest, at least partially. He was fooled by the Empty Emperor, the Teller of Lies, and Elmal was revealed to him as Yelmalio. This trick was performed once before, when Chalana cured Yelmalio's blindness and he became Elmal. The fact that this "revelation" occurred a few years before the Lunar invasion of Sartar is not a coincidence in my opinion, there are few unintentional coincidences in Greg's Glorantha 😉 

Dear Greg

It’s with your passing that I realize how much of an influence your work had on my life. As one of my heroes growing up, I had the privilege of finally meeting you in 1994 at the Baltimore convention. I was struck by how generous you were with my questions and willing to spend your time discussing Glorantha with a fan. This was a pattern that you had started early, when I called you out of the blue after the urging of my girlfriend who was sick of hearing me talk about RuneQuest and you all the time, she wanted me to do something that I loved and pushed me to make contact, a gesture that affected my entire life. Your willingness to discuss ideas with me gave me confidence in my own ideas and reinforced a growing belief that I could become a professional game maker like you, and over the years this is exactly what I did. I have been making games for over 20 years now, and I have you to thank for this.

Not only did you influence the trajectory of my life, but through Glorantha I got to connect with my friends and brothers in a way that would have been impossible without this world. You were the magician of my spiritual alchemy and awakened us all to the truths that all human beings share, the mystery of existence and the invisible connections we all share through mythology, storytelling, and the hero journey.

And I am still on this journey, but I feel like I have lost one of my greatest allies. I hope your family and those close to you realize that you had a profound effect on thousands of people’s life experience and understanding of the world, as well as entertained us with amazing stories of a fantastic world that was a mirror of our own.

Thank you Greg from the bottom of my heart.

Phil