Matt

From the thread on Freeport I'm pretty sure this is not the game for you. You already dismissed it in one of your replies, something along the lines of "not liking fantasy mixed in with your historical stuff". I think you've got High Seas for Flashing Blades and it is dead simple to convert that over to BRP. Pirates of Legend is the other "historical" pirate game for the BRP family.

Can I ask why? I like C&W products. I liked the pitch they made for Pirates and Dragons. Based on their prior work I was pretty confident they'd deliver a good book. I backed them. If I hadn't stumbled across the Kickstarter I would have picked up the book for the same reasons. If I write a review why is my opinion less valid for having backed them?

Good thing you're here to decide for me.

You just told me you're biased going in: "I like C&W products." Hardly an unbiased position from which to review a product. I'm glad you enjoy their material. I'd like a review from a neutral party. But I guess that's not necessary since you can just tell me what I will or won't like.

It's strictly anecdotal and by no means evidence, but I suspect I'm not the only one who knows, has met, plays with, or is acquainted with many folks who enjoy RPGs and play them fairly often but don't buy any new products. I am almost in that camp as well, except once in a while I take a chance on a new game. After thinking about it, I was wrong when I stated I have bought one new game in the past decade; I can think of four now. But a lot of guys I play with aren't buying anything at all and we are playing plenty of games: they're just not the types of games the industry wants to make anymore. I suspect there are many like me who would be more inclined to spend money if we could find the product, there was more variety instead of just Fantasy A and Fantasy B options, and if the product didn't feel like a ripoff.

If the RPG industry wants to survive, it needs new customers rather than just trying to sell overpriced hardcovers to the same audience over and over. They're following the lead of comic books. Used to be able to get RPGs at toy stores and bookstores. Usedto be able to buy all I need to play a game by buying one nice box. Now just finding a game is a pain. Still have never seen a copy of Hero 6th that I could look at and evaluate. Same with Devil's Gulch, Mythic Iceland, etc. Given the prices, I'd like to see the product before I commit to buying it. I've bought exactly one new game in the past decade, and it was so bad I bought none of its supplements. I have, however, bought a couple of dozen used, out-of-print games and downloaded pdfs of old stuff no longer available. Almost none of my money goes to extant publishers. Even my bGB I only bought because it was "irregular" and therefore half-off. Never would have bought at a game store due solely to the price.

Would probably help if someone published a product that interested me. Does everyone really only want fantasy games?

Would love to see a review of this by a disinterested party, especially if it answers the question of whether this book would be useful for historical-setting pirate game without the fantasy/magic elements.

A review by someone who funded the game isn't one I can accept as unbiased.

I don't think a straight 'warts n all' reprint of the original Worlds of Wonder would do much for the BRP system. Perhaps a kickstarter for die-hard fans, although I'm unsure if it'ld be worth the expense. It was almost 30 years ago, a good product in its day, but a dated one now unfortunately.

However, if the concept was revisited as a slipcase or boxed set with three sturdy hardcover books with revised and NEW content (Futureworld, MagicWorld, and SuperWorld), and an additional slim hardcover edition of the BRP Quickstart Rules then that might be a good product. The Quickstart Rules pretty much provides enough core content, and that way some of that doesn't get revisited in the other books.

Now if these books were hardcovers with decent art, then the whole thing could be a game changer on the shelves. The title 'Worlds of Wonder' is much more evocative than a functional term like 'Basic Role Playing', and a product like this would stand its own on the shelves alongside D&D, Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Numera, White Wolf, Warhammer, Savage Worlds, etc. Basically it has to be 'pretty on the eye & heavy in the hand' to attract new players now, as this is what the popular products are all about.

It could be followed up with a 'Worlds of Wonder, Set 2': (WestWorld, SpyWorld, and SteamPunkWorld perhaps). Who knows...(dreaming here)

One could argue that MagicWorld has only been revisited in title only, the current book feels more like Elric/Stormbringer than the original Magic World product. That is not to say that is a bad thing, but the original product of Magic World has more in common with the BRP Classic Fantasy monograph than it does with the current Magic World; in spirit at least. The Professions were presented much more like fantasy archetypes (Classes), and the game had a simple quality to it, almost 'beer & pretzels', ideal for old fashioned dungeon crawls. I think it was a good idea to publish the new Magic World, although I would have preferred another title, as it bears little resemblance to the flavour of the earlier Magic World. Perhaps a title like 'Realm' would have been more apt?

A Worlds of Wonder product like I have described would be a good thing, although to publish it at present may only confuse new BRP players as to which path to follow with in regards to their BRP fantasy games, given that Chaosium already has a current published fantasy setting. Perhaps the other titles could be revised and published as separate settings, which is more likely to be the case if the idea was looked at. I don't think they would sell all that great as separate titles however. In many ways, Worlds of Wonder was the sum of its parts, and the charm came from having a few settings in one product.

As far as a kickstarter goes, I would possibly like to see Chaosium offer a direct reprint of the RuneQuest Gateway content that they published as a boxed set prior to the release of RQ3. I never saw it, but I have heard decent reviews, so I'm curious. But again, whether that would be a viable use of staff resources is an obvious hurdle for anything like this. Perhaps some of the content could be rehashed to fit 'The Realm', and then it could become a MagicWorld publication perhaps?

In all honesty Chaosium is probably wise not to divide their efforts too much, and keep their current focus on Call of Cthulhu and perhaps Magic World. This is not to say that a licensee couldn't pick up other settings, along the lines that Pagan Publishing, Cubicle 7, and Alephetar Games has done in the past. But I can't see Chaosium flying the flag too much for anything that's not going to be related to Cthulhu 7E in the near future. I guess that's logical, considering its a new edition of the flagship product. Given this I can't see much future for Worlds of Wonder, kickstarter or otherwise

Well, I never suggested a reissue of WoW would do anything for BRP or Chaosium at all. It's just what I would love to see. I'd also love to see Superworld in print again with a healthy line of adventure modules and what not. I can dream.

I personally don't much care for BRP (the book) itself, though I love CoC and Superworld.

I thought "Hackmaster" was just a spoof made up for the Knights of the Dinner Table comic book...!

Anybody know if they still publish the comic? I used to laugh out loud reading it.

I think Freeport works much better when you take out the elves and other detritus. What's a snake man worth when your cousin's an orc and the neighbors are whatever other flavor of beastie currently popular. As I recall, it's very easy to just ignore the fact that the NPC is supposed to be a demi-human. It doesn't really impact the setting in a major way.

Magic is probably best to keep at a 'low' level. Restrict the flashy stuff.

The only other beasties I would add other than the snake-men is hints of things in the seas. Maybe Deep One or Gnorri.

One day I will run my much long for Freeport game.

I'm with you. If anything, the horror and wonder is enhanced when there aren't elves and hobbits walking around with healing potions and magic fairy dust every where one looks.

Personally I have never understood the need to inject elves and magic into every setting, but I understand I'm at odds with most other RPGers on that. "Weird West" games have never appealed to me; pirate orcs with flying ships even less if possible.

I have been busy working on a Mythic Iceland Companion book that will contain three new adventures as well as new rules and new setting detail. It's hard to say when it's going to come out, but I'm trying to finish the manuscript this year, so it will probably get published by Chaosium some time in 2015.

Another project I have been working on is a long campaign book for Mythic Iceland that will take the player characters to a few different countries in the Viking world. It's a tale of intrigue and tragedy in the style of the best of the old Icelandic Sagas, which should span at least a dozen game sessions. The campaign is completely fleshed out at this point, and I'm working now on turning my chaotic pile of notes into a coherent text.

Those sound awesome. I would buy them all if I could get anyone to play in that setting.

Spider-Man wasn't a wimp, but you're right. He won by out-thinking his foes rather than by out-muscling them. He packed a pretty mean punch but most of his enemies were ones he couldn't simply beat up.

That's what I enjoy. It was very common in the Silver Age: think of all the Superman, Green Lantern, and Flash tales wherein they can only overcome their opponent or resolve the problem by using their wits or at least a very creative use of their powers. That's one thing the "Amazing Spider-Man" movie got right: Peter Parker's brain defeated the Lizard. Huge improvement over so many other super hero movies such as "Avengers" where it boils down to beating someone up and thereby winning.

We are involved in character creation and determining where to set the game.

I'd rather see a straight reissue of Worlds of Wonder, warts and all. The supposedly "cleaned up" and "improved" games lack the zest and personality of the originals.

Threadjack warning... Matt, you might want to take a look at Flashing Blades and picking up The High Seas supplement. This is a great game and is pretty close to BRP: skill based system, fun fencing rules, you use a d20 instead of percentages, but it plays very close to BRP.

Ha, I have 3 copies. Great game, still available at 1980s prices from the publisher!

Not much work to get rid of the fantasy races. My recollection is that they gave suggestions for how to do it in one of the setting books. Nuking the magic would be harder and I guess I'd suggest not bothering. If you're doing a historical pirate setting use Tortuga or Port Royale another similar pirate haunt instead.

I'll also suggest C&W's new Pirates & Dragons game when it comes out. Sounds like a perfect fit for Freeport.

Thanks for the answer. Guess I'll pass on that and whatever Pirates & Dragons is. I don't go for " fantasy" much, but even less in historical settings like the age of sail, the Old West, 3 Musketeers, etc.

How much work would it be to take out all the magic/elves/fantasy stuff and use for a pirates game?

I would be interested in hearing how it goes. What tone are you trying for?

I'm thinking that your PCs are going to be rather fragile compared to PCs in some other supers games....

Tone = '70s Bronze Age Marvel/Atlas, so Spider-Man, Ms. Marvel, Iron Man, Moon Knight, Tiger-Man, Destructor, pre-Miller Daredevil type stuff, mostly black & white morality but some dilemmas.

Fragile is relative: most super hero games I see are on a scale I don't enjoy. "Cosmic" stuff never held any appeal for me; I'd rather see Batman and Spider-Man team up to take down some villain who has poisoned the city's water supply than Thor manifesting previously unmentioned powers out of his hammer because Darkseid has some nonsensical anti-life scheme involving alignment of planets and moons.

Hoping to run a new Superworld game soon, ongoing campaign with any luck...Bronze Age tone similar to Atlas/Seaboard or Marvel comics of the '70s, power levels no higher than Spider-Man of that era or Lynda Carter Wonder Woman. Would anyone be interested if I post about it?

IIRC, it may have been the Fawcett Comics Captain Marvel series of that period that introduced (or at least popularized) the supervillain as we know him today. Among Captain Marvel's wartime enemies was a super-powered German agent called, appropriately enough, Captain Nazi. He also had to square off against an arrogant semi-divine being who called himself, in mockery of Captain Marvel, "The World's Mightiest Immortal". Then again, his real nemesis was Professor Sivana, a prototypical comic book mad scientist who was the first to derisively dub him "The Big Red Cheese".

Captain Nazi was mainly an opponent of Captain Marvel Jr. In fact, he's the reason Jr. got his powers.

Geez, I thought this thread was gonna be about the Kardashians based on the title...

Fifteen minutes? [Adds Super Speed to Matt's data file.]

The Flash was the first comic book I remember actively seeking out...back during the Cary Bates years! Guess it rubbed off.

Chorpa, I was occupied by other endeavors so I didn't see your helpful response. Thanks very much for the details.

I never used software for creating my Champions characters. Could they take up to 2 hours to build? Sometimes, if a character had a complicated concept. It's the price of having options and flexibility. But, as I've said before elsewhere, Superworld is also a point-buy system. So, whether you're spending 350 points in Champions (for stats, powers, skills and everything) or 700-ish points in Superworld (500 skill points, INTx10 personal skill points, plus 80-90 power points), you're still figuring out how to assemble your abilities to fit the concept and trying to assign reasonable levels of competency. Both have Disadvantages/Failings that need to be balanced. Both have energy costs for power use. Hero has a Speed Chart; BRP has DEX or Strike ranks. Building Superman with either system is going to be a pain in the butt.

I dunno 'bout that...I can make up a Superworld character in 15 minutes, maybe 30 if it's complicated. Champions up thru maybe 3rd edition was close. Anything 5th edition and up makes my eyes glaze over, which I suppose is why they push the software so hard. Plus my Superworld character fits on one page; last I checked a Champions character sheet is at least 4 pages long. Not saying it's a bad game, in fact I quite like 4th edition, but the later editions are too involved for me. Just gimme Superworld & Superworld Companion and I'm happy.

others may disagree but I still think BRP is great for super heroes. Superworld is great, with Superworld Companion making it even better. I just wish there were more resources for it aside from 2 or 3 adventure modules!

The only thing I disliked about that movie was the dreadfully unfunny robots which I assume were an attempt to emulate R2D2 and C3PO. The movie and its utilitarian tech was pretty neat aside from that. A cool implied setting.

Generally BRP/D100 character generation varies enough game by game that one app doesn't fit all. But on the other hand D100 character generation is so simple that it hardly needs computer assistance. As long as you can count up or down every time you put points into a skill, even using pencil and paper, you are gold. There aren't any weird feats or must have choices to make just allocating points to skills.

This is one of the reasons I play Superworld rather than Champions...Hero System has gotten to the point that when you visit their board and bring up character creation, nearly everyone directs you to buy software for it. I can only raise my eyebrows in surprise; I simply can't imagine wanting to play a game that almost requires a computer to check the math for you. Doesn't sound very inviting. Plus I recoil at spending additional $ to play a game. I know I don't have to use it, but it makes it appear character creation in Hero must be very convoluted these days.

I rarely engage in but often read up on the suitability of different systems for Hyborian adventures. There is always a crowd who wants Plot Mail as part of the character. That's their prerogative, but I think that's utterly at odds with the tone and results of sword & sorcery. In my AD&D games I always opt for the grim rules (Weapon v. AC, random targeting in melee) because they make AD&Ds abstract combat conform more to dark fantasy than the superheroics of some similar systems. Reading on this forum I saw Pete Nash had a post on why RQ2 was appropriate for the Conan genre, and I think it applies in general to choosing more hardcore systems (say Hackmaster rather thand20). To put it bluntly, the concept of 'cinematic' in its current and vague meaning is rather recent, even in cinema one doesn't see it much until the 1980s (Star Trek TOS and Hong Kong action/kung fu might be an exception). Contrary to the narrative trend and interpretation of Conan, I'd say that the plot is almost irrelevant in S&S when compared to mood and characterization.

Here's the relevant section of his post:

You can say that again. But I have never liked the magic-everywhere implied setting of D&D.

Blue Falcon, a low-power Batman type detective with gadgets, would be pretty easy to model with BRP. Dynomutt, with his oddball assortment of powers, would be more challenging. Here's how I did it in Champions:

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Dynomutt.txt

Space Ghost presents a similar problem to that of Dynomutt in BRP, not least because BRP requires separate defenses against each and every kind of energy attack. It also doesn't give you the option to save build points by bundling powers together with a common explanation. Again, here's how I tackled it in Champions:

http://www.sysabend.org/champions/gnborh/text/Space_Ghost-ks.txt

Space Ghost is a favorite character of mine, too, but Birdman was a more straightforward build, so I did him first.

I'd love to see all three teamed up as the Titanic Trio or something in some exciting miniseries, but not if they modernize it to make it "grim'n'gritty." Love those characters as is and believe we need some lighthearted adventure.