mfbrandi

43 minutes ago, soltakss said:

I assume that Orlanth’s Brother [who caused Thed’s gaping wound] is Ragnaglar.

I don’t say that you are wrong, but why assume this? The wind lord teaches:

• Thed was wounded by Urox in the Storm Age,
  but turned to chaos to gain revenge on the entire world
  instead of just her enemy. — Lords of Terror, p. 7

In that version — there are surely others — it seems that Thed turns to Chaos to get revenge after being wounded by Storm Bull. I am not especially arsed about that point of exegesis, but let’s bin all the “marry your rapist”, “willing submission to rape”, and similar crap (for which I am not blaming you, obviously). I won’t say that we are better than that, but can we not all at least pretend that we are?

Notes Toward a Revisionist Thed

1. What the world probably needs is Susan Brownmiller’s take on Thed. This is not that.
    
2. As every schoolgirl knows, the broo lifecycle is lifted from the parasitoid wasp (and Sandy included Alien’s xenomorph in the Gateway Bestiary). Orlanthi schoolboys are in denial, of course — that is their function.
   
   Thed — rejecting mammalian sexual reproduction for … reasons — studied the secrets of Darkness under Mallia. Two key lessons:
   
       • horizontal gene transfer — grab new genes without sex°
       • bacteria can induce parthenogenesis (in parasitoid wasps)°°
   
   Every broo is female, every broo is a virgin, no broo needs a womb (for each has an ovipositor). The broo developing inside its host may acquire genes from it, but this has nothing to do with sexual reproduction — the host is not a parent (for the larva already exists and is munching its way through the host’s body). Broo may look like goats, but functionally they have much more in common with bacteria and bacterially enhanced insects.
    
3. There was no cabal with Ragnaglar. Ragnaglar was not the parent of any of Thed’s children — he was the first host on which Thed tested her new reproductive equipment: paralysed and eaten from the inside. David Scott’s mixing up of Ragnaglar and Thed miniatures can be seen as a happy parapraxis: it was Mad R whose abdomen was ripped open from the inside by the emerging Wakboth.
    
4. This does not mean that Thed was not the mother of the Devil, but Thed is not viviparous. No desire for “her husband”, no husband ruling over her, no painful labour: Thed rejects Eve’s rôle — to the patriarchy, this is “letting Chaos into the world”.
    
5. But rapists turn into broo, right? No. It is a metaphor: those consumed by their own guilt are “eaten from the inside”. To add to the confusion of dim and poorly educated Orlanthi barbarians, broo larvae always finish the food: the husk of a host can seem like a discarded chrysalis case. “Look, Oddi must have been a secret Chaotic, for he has transformed into a broo.”
   
   The guilty rapist may suffer the pangs of one who is going to “turn into a broo”. But that is a misunderstanding. It never happens. Thed is not a rapist and neither are her daughters.
    
6. So what is Kyger Litor’s beef with Thed? KL saw Thed embracing Darkness reproductive strategies and producing robust broo. She resented this because she had done a deal (there was no curse) with the Devil — Nysalor–Gbaji in this case — embracing techniques Thed had dismissed to produce surface-adapted trolls and had been disappointed with the enlo, considering them feeble, disgusting things.
   
   Ask any of the three curious spirits: the trollkin strategy is working. After Argrath’s apocalypse, the enlo will be the last humanoids standing — the broo (already in decline) and the dark and mistress “races” will be gone. KL took out on Thed KL’s own perceived mistake — which was no mistake at all but her one wise choice. The broo are fierce and splendid, but the meek enlo shall inherit the lozenge.

———————————————————————
° https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

°° For example: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.221467498 and https://www.nature.com/articles/6800617

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

a shameful act involving grinding a pestle with a mortar for hours on end …

… while whistling the tune of “Florentine Pogen” is my guess.

• Siblings are sometimes the same god.
• Parent and child are sometimes the same god.
• Perhaps we can think of the various storm “brothers” as paralleling the fragments of Yelm (who at bottom is one god).
• In Glorantha, the greatest battles are with oneself — and so always lost?
• We know Storm “let Chaos into the world”.
• “Thed was wounded by Urox in the Storm Age, but turned to chaos to gain revenge on the entire world instead of just her enemy.” — Lords of Terror, p. 7

Storm-as-murder (Orlanth) sees some kind of resolution at the Compromise, but other matters remain unresolved and so the world of time must incorporate the Devil (“The Wind from Outside”) — Wakboth’s evil and not merely Kajabor’s entropy. Holding Thed accountable for this is cheap victim blaming. We might say that Thed is Eiritha when she says “no”. Tada arranges a literal cover-up by having her buried, never to walk Prax again to bear witness, and Waha enforces the ban and substitutes the Herd Protectresses. Kyger Litor wielded the skinning knife? When there was a butcher on hand? The darkest stories happen inside the family.

4 hours ago, Phil O'Connor said:

Ian Cooper … believes that Argrath makes a deal with the Cincina to wipe out the Telmori …
Yet another terrible price he has to pay on his path to defeating his enemies.

I heard that, too. If I am a sociopath and I burn your house down, I may be doing a terrible thing — and it is certainly rough on you — but am I paying a terrible price? That ship has already sailed, may as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb, and other old clichés.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Krarshtkids and their spirit kin Krarshtides may be regarded as demons.

Or daemons:

• spawned by Krarsht/init;
• running in the background;
• definitely not under direct control of the cult/users.

10 hours ago, AlexS said:

In our Glorantha there is actually a whole Kitori cultural tradition (‘Isalling Kitori’) dedicated to taking the ‘Path of the Wasp’ … In our campaign this was traditionally a fringe vocation followed by a relatively small number of young Kitori … In the past some might have taken the ‘Path of the Wasp’ as a permanent choice after being called by Zorak Zoran or Gorakiki upon initiation rather than Argan Argar

And yet, and yet …

An insect’s sting is Fire being put to work by Darkness:

• Deep within [Lodril–Veskarthan] is the Wildfire, an untameable demon of conflagration that once threatened to destroy all of Creation … Veskarthan fought with Argan Argar in the Darkness and was defeated. The Dark God forced Veskarthan into humiliating chains of shadow
  — Prosopaedia: Veskarthan (CHA4042 PDF, p. 131)
• Walking over flaming charcoal with a three-inch nail embedded in your heel … waves of burning, throbbing, all-consuming pain that continues unabated for up to 24 hours.
  — Justin Schmidt, Wikipedia: Bullet Ant

Can we not see the insect’s sting as the power of Wildfire secured by Argan Argar from Lodril for Gorakiki? — “A trade, Gorakiki: I give you weapons and energy; you work for me.” — All three of the Curious Spirits have a relationship with Fire, but ZZ’s is permanently problematic (more stung than stinger: a bellyful of bullet ants). The sting is a normalised, naturalised Fire power, fitting better pragmatic AA. The spear is the stinger of the enlo.

(How many faces of Gorakiki? Won’t Gorakiki Hymenoptera do for bees, wasps, ants, and sawflies?)

One might also wonder whether “priapic” Lodril has been correctly sexed: prick or modified ovipositor? (See also: broo.) But then one cannot help thinking Lodril = Gorakiki. (Are we are supposed to believe that Wildfire ≠ Lodril?)

ZZ swallows Fire and burns ever after. XU befriends Fire. Practical AA stores it in an insect Goddess, and perhaps gives us our just-so story explaining solar-powered Darkness six-legs: the power of Aether is decanted into Khepri–Gorakiki Beetle in the early universe (the scarab is the first form of the sun). The sun is primal Fire domesticated — spending half its time in Darkness, making surface life possible — and perhaps that is AA’s major achievement. Perhaps …

[Clearly, this post evolved as it was written. So it goes. 😉]

  From the Dwarf Ancestors thread some stimulating stuff:

7 hours ago, AndreJarosch said:

If a … shaman tries to summon his dead grandfather, … the person he recognizes as his grandfather would show up, not the unknown to him biological grandfather. 

6 hours ago, scott-martin said:

To a properly broken dwarf or self-initiated shaman every can and pipe has its spirit. With the right access to the official population records you can probably … take a step back in order to make a great leap into the future

4 hours ago, jajagappa said:

If they recycle body AND soul …, then I don’t think any “ancestors” would remain

If the Holy Mother doesn’t upload a representation, no “soul data” survives bodily death. Dwarf, human, whatever — the whole ghosts, reincarnation, table turning, and ancestor summoning racket is an exercise in wish-fulfilment enabled by the hungry, hungry intertubes and incomprehensibly quick vøid servers of Glorantha’s hardest working tech sis. You put in your ancestor request and Her AIs whip up a facsimile of what you think you want … or what it suits Her to serve you.

Why did the Patient One invent the “immortal soul”? As ever, it is hard to say. Is it a small part of Her research into improved ansible tech? There was a market? Is it just that — like Mallia — She is always hard at work doing Her share of the thankless tasks that keep the world functioning as expected, though no one likes to peek behind the curtain?

[Cell 79024683 approves this message. The approval of other cells or Her Bad Self should not be inferred. Never read the small print. Hail Krarsht!]

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Orlanth is both murderer and saviour.

I thought that was Orlanthi orthodoxy.

1 hour ago, Ynneadwraith said:

Yelm’s most loyal servant

They have the same inside–outside relationship as Arkat and Nysalor (although which is which is never clear). One way or another, Orlanth’s blow illuminates Yelm, but as any draconic mystic will tell you, in severing the dragon’s head you are removing your own. Naturally, Gbaji (any Devil or wicked serpent, really) is the third term in this holy trinity — “One, One, the Perfect Sum” (TH). ->  or (hence ), and the central mark marring is where Orlanth’s sword struck/Yelm’s third eye. 😉

4 hours ago, Ynneadwraith said:

For me, coming from a country so steeped in maritime traditions (the UK), it feels as though Glorantha is sorely in need of cultures with a maritime geographical perspective.

Well, the 2nd Age had the practical, empiricist, brutal British Middle Sea Empire, but some bugger blew us it up.

1 hour ago, MagikarpHunter said:

“When leaves fall to the ground … that is because the Earth Mother’s Love pulls us there.”

Dead leaves fall — “Les Feuilles mortes” — she is not interested in the green ones. Necrophilia inscribed in Glorantha’s natural laws. Jacques Prévert was really Jacques Pervert.

The Earth Mother was just being coy with Nontraya/Vivamort.

2 hours ago, narsilion said:

The one thing she cannot stand is fire … both the hated fire and its offspring, smoke, are repelled by her.

• Hot … air … balloons!
• Then some bright spark will say that the flame is still “attached” to the burner, so the flame will lift the basket without that cumbersome bag of air above (and for once I don’t mean Him).
• There will be a fad for levitating bonfires.
• Self-immolating fire cultists — human torches — will dogfight with woad-painted blue meanies. (Johnny Storm’s loyalties may be divided.)

2 hours ago, narsilion said:

At the very bottom of hell, on the edge of the abyss, lies the goddess … who desires to devour everything, to engulf everything, and therefore attracts everything towards herself.

Thoughts:

• Another name for the Waiting Mouth, the Hungry One, the Devouring Mother?
• If so, those staunch Chaos fighters are fighting to destroy gravity (or its analogue). They shouldn’t say so in their publicity material. Well, those crazy Orlanthi fliers might, but they like sucking their food out of the nozzle of a pouch — I guess — and have made arrangements with the dwarfs..
• If not, turf war with Krarsht?
• Perhaps it is not that the Mother of Gravitons wants to devour us all, perhaps it is just that all of creation wishes the oblivion of the Void and so is stampeding toward the plughole at Glorantha’s base. But the sun and the moon have already known that oblivion — they have been blown out and returned and are now addicted to the cycle.

11 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This has huge questing possibilities, just don't fall down the hole!

I want a sign halfway down:

YOU ARE NOW OFFICIALLY DEAD —
DO NOT ASCEND PAST THIS POINT

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I think no shrines to Larnste - this has been a Chaos Nest since the God Time

Minor sub-cult of Krarsht: Larnste the Subverted — who was turned by Her bite. Of course, some non-Chaotic Larnstephiles rock up thinking it is a shrine to “proper” Larnste. Do the Krarshtites attack or otherwise give the game away? MGF says no: Krarsht effigies are hidden and they warmly welcome their siblings in Larnste. The world needs more unwitting Chaos worship. (This echoes the fact that Krarsht worshippers don’t know what their god is or is up to. Dupes all the way down.)

3 hours ago, Joerg said:

I like how the mystic's head is devoured by Chaos.

First draft had the (apparently) headless body plunging back down to earth in 7, like this:

4 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

TotB must be in the running for most Gloranthan comic ever.

Unsurprisingly, ancestry is a relational property, not an intrinsic one — you cannot expect to read genealogy from genes, for example — so are there records one can forge to summon fake ancestors?

When Chaos is relational, dissection will get you nowhere …

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

Some people say that Durulz call Storm Bull Storm Bill

Or in the West, Wild Bill Stormcock.

9 hours ago, SDLeary said:

That’s a bit extreme.

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Not really - no different than anyone else dying.

If the fetch is only a portion of the shaman’s soul — i.e. the fetch–shaman combo is really just one person (one soul, segmented) — then the fetch segment’s hitting zero POW killing the fetch–shaman does seem a bit extreme, as no one has actually been reduced to zero POW. Isn’t it a bit like saying you must die if a limb has been cut off or one hemisphere of your brain has been mashed? You might die, but …

However, mine is not to reason why.

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

And yet I still have fairly high confidence (truth rating) that the trains still run down there, years after even seeing a station entrance much less riding with the damn things.

You believe. I guess that for a New Yorker, it is more like gravity holding or the sun rising tomorrow — in theory reality could let them down, but for them it is beyond doubt. 😉

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

I ponder how the nature of the subway gods can change

From Walter Matthau and Robert Shaw to giant mantis–termites in twenty-odd years?

2 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Orlanth is actually Apollo or Hermes the Thief and it's complicated.

Inclusive or, or even and? Orlanth strikes me as the kind of guy who would steal his own cattle.

2 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Shardik

So Richard Adams was the grandmother of Harrek? With that, Art Garfunkel, and Bunnies & Burrows, the man has stuff to answer for.

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

a lot of the equipment carried by the adventurers won't be theirs to give away

Even better!

The cult writes to the captured cultist:

• It has been a tough year, and there is not a lot of silver left in the temple treasury. Frankly, we cannot afford to ransom you and that iron armour we loaned you. Wrap it carefully for transport. See you in the next life.
• PS: There is a prayer enclosed for your captors to read over your body.
• PPS: If we had been just a little more cash-strapped, we wouldn’t have been able to afford to ransom the armour, so you could have come home after all. It’s a funny old world.