SMAY63

20 hours ago, SaintMeerkat said:

Per a quick Google search:

Mace came along in the late 1960s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace_(spray)

According to this website, peppers have been weaponized since ancient times by throwing bits into eyes and burning them, but the first successful attempt to create a portable aerosol form of capsaicin was in the early 1960s.

https://www.zarc.com/t-pepper-spray-history

Same hear with the internet search with 1960s. 

23 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

.41 is an odd caliber.  And the vast majority of revolver cylinders have six chambers.  

Is it possible the developers put in a unique and RW nonexistent item in order to trap plagiarists?

 

It is listed as rare. 

Oh well. 

23 hours ago, Sam E. said:

I don't think pepper spray or mace existed in the 1920s.

I did have a look online, and found that something like it was used in WW1; but nothing 'exact/factual' in detail. 

I also watched the Bookshops of Arkham (1935?), where one of the characters used 'spray' to disable an attacker. Somewhat confusing. 

I came across the .41 revolver in the Investigators Handbook. 

P251: .41 (10.414mm) revolver: Dam: 1D10, Range: 15 Yards, RoF: 1 (3), Mag: 8, Cost: $30, 1920s, Mal: 100, rare. 

I had a look online to see what the model/make might be. Not much luck, found 1 or 2. 

One of them, the Colt Thunderer has a 6-round cylinder. 

I was wondering what the 'developers' were basing the revolver 'stats' on.

Any ideas? 

Pepper spray (Mace 1960s). P250 in the Investigators Handbook. 1920s/Modern. Cost: --/$10.

No cost for the 1920s?

Would be most grateful for any answers. 

37 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

I usually just allow missile weapons at touch ranged to be blocked or parried. The idea being that the target grabs the weapon or arm of the attacker and points it somewhere else. 

Good idea. I'll suggest that next time. 

7 hours ago, klecser said:

I'm not at your table, but these statements lead me to believe that the problem isn't rules but unwillingness to cooperate or compromise. "I don't accept your attempts to fairly adjudicate this situation" is not something that makes for a healthy gaming environment. I'm not saying it's easy to deal with. "Finding the rule that people will accept" may be a band-aid on a bleeding artery solution.

Which is fine by me. 

I'm merely trying to get some 'feedback' about the 'scene' that occurred. If the player had used a pistol on his turn after he was close-assaulted (touch range), that seems ok, but maybe a chance of shooting himself as well during the 'struggle' if he missed? 

It seemed during the time (his turn), after the infected had tried to claw his face off, he tried to use a 3.5ft rifle at the target 1ft away. 

I suggested he use the rifle stock to 'bash' the target and hopefully 'push' it away; but he seemed intent on using his rifle. 

Just asking for feedback/suggestions about what other GMs would do in this situation. 

I hate saying no as a GM, but sometimes it does inevitably come up. 

Thanks for the replies. 

The player wanted to use his hunting rifle (42 inches/3.5 ft long), on his turn after the zombie/infected had tried to hit him (touch range). 

He first accepted a no at the 'scoped shot' he wanted to try, as I informed him the target was too close (in his face). 

But he still wanted to use the rifle at the target (1ft away), after it had attacked him (claw strike). 

Darius West: A pistol would have been ok, but equal chance of him shooting himself?

Suicide shoot: ok, no problem there. 

Mvincent: Thanks for the input. 

In 5e CoC, should it be p36 out of pages 32-36 (Combat?); Or is it p113-114 (CoC 7e?)

As I stated in my original post:

"I later read through CoC 3e, 5e, 6e, and even 7e; but nothing on missile/ballistic weapon in touch range; until I came upon a paragraph in G.O.R.E. (D100), which some people should remember. Generic Old-school Roleplaying Engine. 

On p32 (G.O.R.E.), it states: Note that if range is touch, missile weapons cannot be used."

I suppose I use G.O.R.E. as a SRD of sorts, concerning D100 system. 

I can see the rules in 7e about a 'disadvantage dice for firing in to a melee, but what I was trying to get across to the player, and the others in the scenario, was the player (carrying a hunting rifle, 42 inches-3.5ft long), was too long to use to shoot back at a target who was in touch range (about 12 inches-1ft away) from him. 

There was I explained to them, no 'manoeuvring room'  to get the long arm to shoot at the target, as it was too close. 

I explained to him he could use the stock to swipe at the target, as an improvised club to push it away, but not fire at it. 

As Soltakss said "Why not push the attacker away and then shoot? The rifle could be used to help push away.". 

Which I suggested to the player, but, no go. 

Th target was much closer than the 'business end' of the weapon, I told the player; but alas, not accepted. I'm thinking of accepting the rule on p32 of G.O.R.E.

I have a feeling it won't be popular with some players, but it seems logical (not using missile weapon in touch range). 

Over the decades I've played and GM'ed various RPGs, I've been lucky enough to not encounter this situation or anything like it. 

I suppose it had to happen sometime. 

Thanks again for the replies (and advice). 

Hopefully they'll take the above advice under consideration. 

Thanks for the reply. Quite helpful. 

I tried explaining to the players about using the hunting rifle as an improvised club (stock), but the 3 of them were most convinced the longarm could shoot at a target 12 to 14 inches away. 

I know what you mean about 'pushing away'. I've seen this in WW1 trench fighting, etc; as the trench is invaded, the defenders will likely have bayonets on the end of their rifles which they use as a sort of 'improvised' spear-type weapon, then usually try to push away the attacker, to either use the bayonet, or step back and try to 'get a shot off' at the 'pushed away' target. 

I've been thinking of 1 or 2 of the reply you gave. Worth trying to discuss with them in a future game (if they'll listen). 

Once again, thanks for the reply and suggestions. 

SMAY63

I recently GM'ed a scenario where a player was closed assaulted  (touch range). 

The player was trying to shoot his rifle at the attacker. 

First, he wanted to 'scope shot' the attacker (he had a hunting rifle), but I said the target was too close, which the player accepted. 

The player then wanted to shoot the target with their hunting rifle (42 inches, 3.5 feet); but I said once again, the target was too close (in his face)'

The player then argued this, so did the other player, and a third person also joined in, saying the player could shoot at the target (which was 12-14 inches away), with his hunting rifle (3.5 feet long). 

I said there was no 'manoeuvring' room to get the barrel of the 'longarm' towards the target because it was too close. 

I later read through CoC 3e, 5e, 6e, and even 7e; but nothing on missile/ballistic weapon in touch range; until I came upon a paragraph in G.O.R.E. (D100), which some people should remember. Generic Old-school Roleplaying Engine. 

On p32, it states: Note that if range is touch, missile weapons cannot be used.

I cannot find this in any version of CoC. Have I missed something? 

Any advice would be most grateful. . 

I've added some files to the GORE (downloads) section, also check the goblinoidgames - forum - gore - scifi section.

It's possible you and others may find some ideas.

The above may be relevant to your search.

See what you think.

Auyl: Thanks.

I checked the book on Drivethrurpg.com ($14.99/£9.92).

A pity they didn't have that book back in the 80s when I was looking up the different types of handguns.

I had to visit the local library, and find the required book (a required library roll I think).

That Investigator Weapons book/PDF looks like a required purchase.

At £9.92, it's not too bad.

I recently came across some old handwritten notes of mine, containing handguns I'd looked up many years ago for CoC 3rd Edition.

So I copied the data to a word processor:

Revolver .32:

Arminius (no.7): MAG: 5, DATE: 1920, COUNTRY: Germany.

Colt Police Positive: MAG: 6, DATE: 1907, COUNTRY: USA.

S&W Hand Ejector: MAG: 5, DATE: 1903, COUNTRY: USA.

Revolvers & Autos .38:

Colt Bankers Special: MAG: 6, DATE: 1928, COUNTRY: USA.

Enfield: MAG: 6, DATE: 1932, COUNTRY: UK.

Colt Super 38: MAG: 9, DATE: 1929, COUNTRY: USA. Auto.

7.65mm Autos:

Browning 1900: MAG: 7, DATE: 1901, COUNTRY: Belgium.

Browning 1922: MAG: 9, DATE: 1922, COUNTRY: Belgium.

CZ27: MAG: 8, DATE: 1927, COUNTRY: Czechoslovakia.

DWM: MAG: 7, DATE: 1920, COUNTRY: Germany.

Frommer M37: MAG: 7, DATE: 1937, COUNTRY: Hungary.

Gavage: MAG: 7, DATE: 1936, COUNTRY: Hungary.

MAB Modele D: MAG: 9, DATE: 1933, COUNTRY: France.

MAS 35: MAG: 8, DATE: 1935, COUNTRY: France.

Mauser 1910: MAG: 9, DATE: 1910, COUNTRY: Germany.

Mauser 1934: MAG: 8, DATE: 1934, COUNTRY: Germany.

Walther PP: MAG: 8, DATE: 1929, COUNTRY: Germany

Walther PPK: MAG: 7, DATE: 1931, COUNTRY: Germany

Beretta 1915: MAG: 7, DATE: 1915, COUNTRY: Italy

Colt Pocket Hammerless: MAG: 8, DATE: 1903, COUNTRY: USA. Auto.

Remington 51: MAG: 7, DATE: 1918, COUNTRY: USA

Savage Model 1907: MAG: 10, DATE: 1907, COUNTRY: USA

.45 Autos:

Colt Service: MAG: 7, DATE: 1911, COUNTRY: USA.

Colt New Service: MAG: 6, DATE: 1898, COUNTRY: USA.

S&W Service M1917: MAG: 6, DATE: 1917, COUNTRY: USA.

9mm Revolvers & Autos:

Beretta 1934: MAG: 7, DATE: 1934, COUNTRY: Italy.

Beretta 1923: MAG: 8, DATE: 1923, COUNTRY: Italy.

Bergmann-Bayard: MAG: 10, DATE: 1910, COUNTRY: Belgium.

Browning 1903: MAG: 7, DATE: 1903, COUNTRY: Belgium.

Browning GP35: MAG: 13, DATE: 1935, COUNTRY: Belgium.

CZ24: MAG: 8, DATE: 1924, COUNTRY: Czechoslovakia.

Frommer M29: MAG: 7, DATE: 1929, COUNTRY: Hungary.

Lahti Model 35: MAG: 8, DATE: 1935, COUNTRY: Finland.

Parabellum ’08 (Luger): MAG: 8, DATE: 1908, COUNTRY: Germany.

Parabellum Long ’08 (Luger): MAG: 8, DATE: 1913, COUNTRY: Germany.

Radom: MAG: 8, DATE: 1935, COUNTRY: Poland.

Savage: MAG: 10, DATE: 1915, COUNTRY: USA.

Steyr: MAG: 8, DATE: 1911, COUNTRY: Austria.

Walther P38: MAG: 8, DATE: 1937, COUNTRY: Germany.

Walther PP: MAG: 7, DATE: 1929, COUNTRY: Germany

Walther PPK: MAG: 6, DATE: 1931, COUNTRY: Germany

Beretta 1915: MAG: 7, DATE: 1915, COUNTRY: Italy (9mm Glisenti)

Colt Police Positive: MAG: 6, DATE: 1907, COUNTRY: USA.

S&W .38 Hand Ejector: MAG: 6, DATE: 1899, COUNTRY: USA

I suppose the data is still good for 5th & 6th edition.

I believe I wrote it up, because the players wanted names/makes for their pistols/handguns, so I did some research.

As said before, this list was done MANY years ago while playing CoC 3rd (which we played in the 30s).

Yes, I've downloaded a quick start Guide (13 pages).

I've given it a quick glance, it seems ok.

It has formulae for encounters, etc.

The PDF of Outbreak: Undead is $19.99 or £12.70 here in the UK at the moment.

I might get it, once I've enough funds.

I decided to do a Zombie Apocalypse RPG, first using my own system (also D100), and then GORE.

With some slight changes, the GORE zombie apocalypse rules can be made for CoC.

I saw in the equipment list P.293 (CoC 6th ed), prices for a crossbow and bolts, but I couldn't seem to find any data on any kind of crossbow.

I searched 1 or 2 American sites for bows and crossbows. I noted the prices ($300-$899) - crossbows, $169+ for bows.

BOWS AND CROSSBOWS – CALL OF CTHULHU 6TH EDITION

Crossbow#1: Base: 25%, DAM: 2D4+2, RNG: 50, ROF: 1 / 3, HP: 14, MAL: 95, COST: $300

STR/DEX: 11/7

Crossbow#2: Base: 25%, DAM: 2D6+2, RNG: 55, ROF: 1 / 2, HP: 18, MAL: 97, COST: $389

STR/DEX: 13/7

5 x bolts: $30

Quiver (holds 15): $40

Composite Bow: Base: 05%, DAM: 1D8+2+half DB, RNG: 120, ROF: 1, HP: 5, MAL: 00, COST: $169

5 x Arrows: $39

Quiver (holds 15): $40

Arrows and bolts impale.

The above text/data I'm using in my current scenario: The Menace of Dr Gruber.

The costs I've located online on 2 American sites.

I've seen crossbows in the UK (where I live), starting at £249+

Bows I haven't checked.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Any thoughts would be apperciated.

I was thinking of the Nazi zombies in the Dead Snow film.

Yes, as you say, a dumb zombie INT 1-2.

Smarter zombies (like the Dead Snow Nazi zombies) can be INT 3-4, and the leader maybe INT 5-6?

Possible?

Welcome also, PlanarRambler.

Hope you enjoy the forum.

Your comment made me think of my humble beginnings into RPGS.

Mine really started in 1980, when I purchased the D&D red box, as some people in a RPG club got me interested a year earlier.

I then saw (and played) such RPGs like Paranoia, Twilight 2000, Traveller, and of course Call of Cthulhu.

Our group is now playing Iron Kingdoms 2012, Dark Heresy, Deadlands.

I still have the 3rd edition (hardback), The Statue of the Sorcerer/The Vanishing Conjurer double book, 5th Edition, 1990s book, etc

At the moment, I'm trying to continue from a scenario I GM-ed just a little over 12 months ago (The Menace of Dr Gruber).

I'm using 6th edition CoC.

It's modern day, set on the east coast (new England area), with the PCs investigating disappearances/grisly discoveries.

The second part still needs some work.

Enjoy the forum.

Ok, ok. So maybe I was a LITTLE generous with the zombie INT.

How about INT: 1, maybe 2, tops?

Mankam: Agreed, low INT it is (3-5 INT maybe?).

Humanity Points could very well be a good idea. Instead of Sanity, 'tweak' it into Humanity Points.

The lower the Humanity Points, the less humane and more self centred they'll become.

Allegiance - maybe; it's not a bad idea. If he/she is treated unfairly by the group in some way, he/she leaves (although where?)

On another note, the Zombie Survival theme has no prices for items (money has no value).

If people or a person wants a particular weapon, or item (food, water, ammo, etc), then they barter with the person(s) for what they want.

So for example, if my character wanted some food & water, and I knew some of the people I've encountered have them, I'll barter with them, perhaps offering ammunition of some kind, maybe.

Hoping I'll have what they want.

Although a few times, I've had to stop one of my nephews from shooting every person(s) he encounters, just to rob them of their equipment.

Bartering doesn't enter his mind; he just wants to shoots them

Over time, I've got him out of that bad habit.

So basically, when your PCs encounter an 'enclave' or group of non-threatening people, some trade can be done.

Toadmaster: I know what you mean. You see one or more people in movies, and wish someone would 'get rid' of the idiot.

I'm sure, like other GMs, that the NPCs act 'correctly', and NEVER do stupid things.

But, there is always the choice for GMs to make one or two of their NPCs act stupidly, so either the other NPCs or PCs want to get rid of the idiot(s).

Basically, it's up to the GM whether he/she wants to put any 'idiots' in their scenario.

In some ways, it might be interesting/fun.

You are more than welcome to change the stats of the zombies.

Lower the INT if you wish.

Bear swilling rat? Interesting :-0

I see what you mean by the 'humanity' mechanism. Most interesting.

I've seen similar system(s) before: Star Wars-Knights of the Old Republic had a light side/dark side mechanism, that gave you light/dark points for your good or bad actions towards people, etc.

I like your idea of 'humanity points'.

The GM could give good or bad 'humanity points' to players depending on their actions.

If, for example, the player has more bad than good 'humanity points', then the player has becomes more selfless, not caring about other players/people, always thinking about him/herself for survival.

And also more willing to sacrifice other people for his/her survival.

I made a few notes for a modern day zombie survival theme at Goblinoidgames.com:

goblinoidgames.com • View topic - GORE Zombie survival theme

Have a look, see what you think (I'm sure some of you can come up with something extra, maybe).

It's really quite adaptable to CoC (maybe the odd minor change).

I'm sure plenty of ideas can be made from various resources (films, etc), like Walking Dead, etc.