pipe2null

Rolling SAN until you lose max SAN for the creature seems like it could end up with way more rolling than I want to have at my table. What do you think would be a better way to handle it.

I was thinking of a couple options, just roll the SAN loss and take it no SAN roll or have a single SAN roll and stage the SAN loss based on success level.

Something like 

Success = 3/4

Hard Success = 1/2

Extreme Success = 1/4

Thoughts? Other ideas?

OMG Take my money!!!!

Hi so I'm thinking of doing a short game around Ithaqua and the snowstorm and avalanche in wellington washington of 1910. I was wondering what some resources might be around Ithaqua, cults, other things that might fit. Thanks!

Lets take Vampire specifically

Full names of attributes and skills are listed each with 5 bubbles. At the bottom of the sheet is Attributes: 7/5/3 • Abilities:13/9/5 • Disciplines:3 • Backgrounds:5 • Virtues:7 • Freebie Points:15 (7/5/2/1). Ok now im not exactly sure how i use those but seem like i use those in some way to build a character. This is one of the earlier forms of good sheet design but still has a bunch of stuff missing. I mean I dont know what Disciplines are or Background. The Virtues are marked and im unclear what the 7/5/2/1 signification is on freebie other than it adds up to 15. But i got a general idea about how it goes. Cthulhu likewise with the base % gives me a good indicator of some stuff but with 7th they kicked the design up a notch by having a quick reference to the rules on the back. I mean other than I dont know what these attributes mean and the funny tri boxes that its some kinda % system with levels of success (quick ref chart)  it even tells me i can push a roll for a reroll. There might be some skills like credit rating im not sure how that is used exactly and it doesnt tell me how to create a character at all but its fairly good. If ive played a few other RPGs i can probably look at it and go yeah i know how to play this game. I might not know the details of combat rules but I get most of it. I even know the setting thanks to the 1920s or 1890s etc box with the little bit of art. Look we disagree, thats ok, you can enjoy your game and Ill enjoy mine. 

and now you know someone who says pass when a character sheet sucks  I got tired of terrible games with pretty covers during the D20 era so now i flip to the character sheet first. 

Heh I finally found the sheet, helps if I spell it right 

From that I know how to build part (maybe most) of a character. I can tell it uses d6 dice pool with the highest or lowest die being the result.

On 11/5/2019 at 8:20 AM, Atgxtg said:

No, it's not. A character sheet is just a record of some of the key stats tracked by the game. That's all. Thinking that it is the most important part of RPG design is like saying your tax form is the most important part of your income.

If the character sheet were the most important part of thew design of an RPG then:

• D&D and the other early RPGs would have failed, as they originally didn't have a character sheet at all. People just used blank paper. Even when official characters became a thing, they were pretty bland. Thery just tracked the name of the player, name of the character, and all that game data thay people actually use during the game.
• Game experience and compatibility would change depending on what sort of character sheet a player ops for, and custom character sheets wouldn't be compatible with the core rules, and older sheets wouldn't work with newer editions of the rules.
• RPG companies would spend much more time focused on "most important" character sheet as opposed to the "less important" stuff like the game system, setting, and adventures.
• Characters in the past would have eliminated stats such as ability ratings, hit points, and equipment for the art.
• RPGs would use the arts character sheet for the cover, as obviously the single most important part of design would be a major selling point. The cover and cover art exists to sell the book. 

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played? I know I can come up with multiple examples of where it hasn't. In my current campaign I have a player who has a character written up on a sheet of blank paper because we were out of character sheets at the time. While he now has a another character sheet to put the character on, he hasn't bothered to do so, and it hasn't changed the game in any significant way -and that's in Pendragon, an RPG where art, in the form of a character's coat of arms, is of some importance to the game, as it is part of a character's identity. So it is probably the RPG where the art is as important to game play as it gets.

So as soltakss has noted repeatedly, "You don't need art on a character sheet." You might wan't art or like to have art, but you don't need art.

You missed the point, how many hours do you look at the book? how many hours do you want to be looking at the book?  how many hours do you look at the character sheet? The character sheet is your cheat sheet for the game while you dont actually need rules or a character sheet to play an RPG the character sheet gets the most use.

Can you provide an example of where the characters sheet improved an actual game so  much as to be a major factor in how the game played?

Vampire, Inspectors, any character sheet where the rules are on it. Even the Cthulhu one has some of the rules right there on the sheet. That means less time flipping in the book.
 

The art on the other had sets tone, again most white wolf games use a simplitic boarder to convey tone. Pendragon and Game of Thrones are also both good examples of tone setters. Some of the AD&D reboots set great tone. Its like playing by candle light or with props. They set tone.

Heres an example of a character sheet that sets no tone nor does it tell me much about the game, is it sci-fi, fantasy? what are the rules? im guessing % are used for hit location but thats about all i get.

http://www.mad-irishman.net/pubs/MI_MythusHPSheet.pdf

Now compare that to if Pendragon put most of the rules actually on their sheet and it was parchment with old style fonts. Which one helps set the tone better?

RPGs are a niche of a niche even when they are more popular than ever. A lot of that is people not wanting to read intimidating books in order to play. Its not like you just have to kick the ball in the net. The more intuitive you can make it the more people will come into the hobby. Of course its just an opinion and I am often wrong.

I disagree pretty strongly. The art on the sheet should invoke tone and mood. The character sheet is the single most important part of RPG design IMHO and often ignored. If you can get 80% of the rules on couple page character sheet and invoke mood of the game, you just won because that sheet is whats going to get looked at a whole lot more than the book. You might not need a ton of art but Shadow of the Demon Lord and the old gate look of Vampire the Masquerade are great examples where the sheet explains the tone and mood through some simple art.

Yeah maybe when I have a final product with original art. Assuming I can convince one of my artist gamer friends to draw up something awesome.

Glad to hear its on the radar. I just finished my first CoC 7th campaign and I'm doing Mythic Iceland next so I took CoC 7th + some stuff from through the ages, old mythic iceland, and mrq2 vikings (just because thats what I have) and mashed it together added my own flair. 25 pages later I found I didnt like any of the character sheets so I made this one.

Mythic-Iceland-CharacterSheet.pdf

Hello, I just wanted to say hi and that I am loving running 7th! I was a very occasional player in the past but I think CoC is now in top rotation for me as a keeper. I didnt even know that some simple changes would really improve the whole game experience for me.