Anyone help with making MRQII magic thamatic suitable in the HÂrn setting?

[KjetilKverndokken]

I'm getting the Hârn pdf's, I really do not like the Harnmaster system, but the setting is awesome. But I'm a bit unsure how to make the magic in MRQII fit with the theme.

Heres the thoughts...

Common and Sorcery magic is Wizard domain, and Divination is Divine Evocation from the Clergy and Spirit Magic is for the Shamans.

But how should one make it fit with the Hermatic view in the Magic book? With Magic from different elements and so forth.

In Hârn spellcasters are very powerful, and would it really be a problem that magic is not separated hundred times in different orders etc.

How would you do it, to the best effect?

Edited May 26, 2010 by KjetilKverndokken

[fmitchell]

Which PDFs did you get?

So far, I just have Harn World 2nd edition: maps, atlas, cosmology, glossary. I'm just planning to change the fluff as I see fit; my version won't have elves, dwarVes, and orcs, merely forest-folk, hill-folk, and barbarians. I've thought about getting some of the deeper background, but most of it smelled too D&D-ish: wizards, priests, the aforementioned demi-humans. Then again, I haven't dived too deeply into the Harn World text, so perhaps I'll have to change more than I think.

To answer your question ... I would change the setting to fit the system you've chosen. For example, the Great Spells of yore are lost. Sorcery has split into hundreds of smaller, squabbling orders trying to preserve what they have left. Priests beseech their gods for greater powers, but the gods do not reply. Even shamans, who have preserved the past, noticed that the great spirits have hidden themselves away, and lesser ones have become wilder ...

That's sort of the idea of my quasi-Harn campaign: the old powers are fading, and new ones are arising. The new powers use systems from BRP, Corum, and Unknown Armies, with large chunks of handwavium: allegiances, demon-summoning, new sciences, avatars of folkloric archetypes.

As an alternative, I'm hacking out a ritual magic system, to explain great magics of the past. I'm either going to use multiple rolls on the ritual casting skill (modeled after d20 Incantations), or opposed rolls against a "resistance factor" (nature fighting back, eldritch powers refusing mortal commands, etc.). A simple difficulty factor might also work, although I like the nonlinear effects of opposed and multiple skill checks.

[KjetilKverndokken]

I have 2nd ed Magic, but would rather keep the flavour of the setting then the system.

Thinking along the ideas of grouping the magic in MRQII to the orders of Hârn instead.

I dont know...

[peterb]

My take at a quick MRQ conversion of the HM magic rules: HarnMaster magic is skill based. It uses Fatigue instead of Magic Points (a good conversion is 5 FP per 1 MP). All spells belong to one of six convocations. There is also a seventh "grey" convocation called Neutral magic. The 2nd ed. of the magic rules uses "convocational skill" instead of individual spell skills. A mage has one prime convocation and his skillbases are calculated based on the relationships between his prime convocation and the other convocations. In MRQII terms the primary convocation would have a base of INT + POW + POW. Neutral would be opened at INT + POW and all other convocations could (in game) be opened at either INT + POW (if the experience roll needed to "attune" to a new convocation is a Critical) or just POW.

A huge list of HM spells are available from lythia.com. Note the links to more documents in the box to the right. I'd recommend using these spells, since they are designed to fit the setting.

[KjetilKverndokken]

My take at a quick MRQ conversion of the HM magic rules: HarnMaster magic is skill based. It uses Fatigue instead of Magic Points (a good conversion is 5 FP per 1 MP). All spells belong to one of six convocations. There is also a seventh "grey" convocation called Neutral magic. The 2nd ed. of the magic rules uses "convocational skill" instead of individual spell skills. A mage has one prime convocation and his skillbases are calculated based on the relationships between his prime convocation and the other convocations. In MRQII terms the primary convocation would have a base of INT + POW + POW. Neutral would be opened at INT + POW and all other convocations could (in game) be opened at either INT + POW (if the experience roll needed to "attune" to a new convocation is a Critical) or just POW.

A huge list of HM spells are available from lythia.com. Note the links to more documents in the box to the right. I'd recommend using these spells, since they are designed to fit the setting.

So if I get you right, I should have the spell cost one magic point pr. 5 fatigue from the Harn Magic in MRQII?

Things outside of damage may be easily converted to fit the bill, but any suggestion for how to best convert Harnmaster magic 2nd ed magic damage over to MRQII?

Like Orb of Zatara makes from 1D6 dmg to 2D6 dmg (if I read it right), would the power of the spell be just translated right over or changed?

Edit: I have read the system, I'm not familiar with Harnmaster, but I see you get fatigue from casting the spell.. Maybe another conversion should be 1 magic point pr complexity level of the spell? That would make the simplest spells cost 1 and the greatest 7 if I'm right?

Would Divine Casting be something similar?

Otherwise I think this is a great thought, just the cost of the spells and the damage of harmful spells that needs to be calculated, and I can use the Harn settings magic as is .

[danbuter]

You'd probably be best to just drop Common Magic (or make it something used by barbarians). Just divide up the Sorcery spells so their themes fit with the various Harn schools of magic. Trying to remake Harnmaster Magic exactly is a waste of time.

[KjetilKverndokken]

You'd probably be best to just drop Common Magic (or make it something used by barbarians). Just divide up the Sorcery spells so their themes fit with the various Harn schools of magic. Trying to remake Harnmaster Magic exactly is a waste of time.

Not if it is just, one magic school is each a skill, strength modified with manipulation skill. Cost of one magic point pr level of magic. Only thing to calculate is damage.

I have tried dividing Sorcery for Hârn, but the spells are few and do not fit to good with the different schools.

[peterb]

So if I get you right, I should have the spell cost one magic point pr. 5 fatigue from the Harn Magic in MRQII?

On page Shek-Pvar 9 you'll find the fatigue rules. One fatigue level in HM2 is = 5 FPs in HM1. The spell descriptions I linked to are written in the HM1 format.

So 1 FL = 1 MP.

My suggestion is that whenever a mage has used more than 3 MP he must make a fatigue roll => Resilience skill - (5 x FL). Failure should leave the character at least Tired (IMHO).

Things outside of damage may be easily converted to fit the bill, but any suggestion for how to best convert Harnmaster magic 2nd ed magic damage over to MRQII? Like Orb of Zatara makes from 1D6 dmg to 2D6 dmg (if I read it right), would the power of the spell be just translated right over or changed?

Magic in Harn is not as powerful as in Glorantha (the setting for which MRQ is written). A spell that does 1 or 2 d6s to each hitlocation and only costs 1 MP is still of course quite good.

So you might consider Spell Level = MP cost. I don't think you'll need to change the damages that much. Some spells might have a base damage + a number of d6's. IMO you could leave it like that or treat the base damage as the average of a dice. So a spell with a base damage of 4 should do 1d8+1d6 points of damage on a normal success.

Would Divine Casting be something similar?

Divine magic in the RQ sense does not exist in harn setting. Harn is magic weak compared to Glorantha so divine magic needs to become more costly. I would recommend making it a bit more costly to get by requesting a permanent sacrifice of POW (as per RQIII).

[peterb]

Note that my suggestion for the MP cost of spells assume that you'll use Convocation skills. The effective skill level of a convocation skill is modified my Spell Level * 5 when you cast spells. So a 3rd level spell is -15 to cast and a 5th level spell -25. If you don't want to use Convocation skills then I would suggest the following:

Skill Level  Base MP cost

Up to 50     3

51-75        2

76+          1 

Then use the multipliers as per spell. For example, the 3rd level Fyvria spell "Ketherian's Persistence" has a FP cost of (15-SI) x 2.0. In MRQ the Mp cost for a mage with a skill level of 56% would be (2 x 2) 4 mp.

MP cost is also influenced by the level of success: CS = ½ cost, MS and MF = normal cost, CF = cost x 2. A MF/CF might (should) require a resilience test.